Supercharge Final Scourge - Catharsis (Final Release soon)

[Austinado]

After releasing for a few days here in DoomWorld, i decided to take off the Download Link, since ill make a few modifications for the final release, wich i will provide in this same forum thread. Thank you all for playing ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Austinado
Editing for some modifications

[boris]

Any screenshots?

[Austinado]

Just now, boris said:

Any screenshots?

 Will give at each post with the map i provide.

[Austinado]

PLAYTESTING - MAP01 Supercharged Final Scourge - Catharsis ; 

 

 

- UV

- NO jumping/NO crouching

- YES overlook

- Shootable switches

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Austinado

[Magicana]

Adding it to my list to play :).

[Misty]

Here's one thing with Otex - it's not really compatible with default Doom 2 textures and default looks of those textures. I suggest replace those into Otex ones for more unified look. 

[Austinado]

38 minutes ago, Misty said:

Here's one thing with Otex - it's not really compatible with default Doom 2 textures and default looks of those textures. I suggest replace those into Otex ones for more unified look. 

 

You are saying that i have to change all the Doom2 textures that i have mixed with the OTEX textures in the map?

[kknot5889]

I'll definitely be checking this out. Thanks for the heads up! Looks great.

[Misty]

Well, Otex and Doom 2 textures just doesn't mix well as they have clearly different styles and looks, besides default textures look out of place with a bit dated look. With such beast as Otex you should completely use that one pack without mixing Iwad stuff. 

8 minutes ago, Austinado said:

 

 You are saying that i have to change all the Doom2 textures that i have mixed with the OTEX textures in the map?

 

[Austinado]

3 minutes ago, Misty said:

Well, Otex and Doom 2 textures just doesn't mix well as they have clearly different styles and looks, besides default textures look out of place with a bit dated look. With such beast as Otex you should completely use that one pack without mixing Iwad stuff. 

 

 

Well its a good advise...

[RonnieJamesDiner]

Took this for a spin, my end screen is in the spoiler tag below. I think the remaining enemies were down in the nukage tunnels, but I couldn’t find a way of getting back down there to get 100% kills. (I think this is meant to say "Prison Escape"? The custom backgrounds are nice, though).

 

Spoiler

 

 

My basic takeaway from this is: I really enjoyed the combat, but didn’t particularly care for the visuals.

 

- For the most part*, the map feels balanced. I think there’s a slight over-abundance of ammunition by the time I’m finished the nukage tunnels, but I always appreciate having more than I need, rather than less. Health seemed plentiful and well-placed, and the Rad Suits felt perfect (in number and placement).

 

- The combat was fun and quick. Given the strength of the Supercharge pistol, I was able to rely heavily on it during the opening areas, allowing my shells to stockpile a bit for Revs and Trons later on. The SSG arrived at a good pace through the map, and the difficulty/monster choice escalated nicely with it.

 

- The nukage tunnels were my favourite part of the map. I loved the pressure of having to explore the area, figuring out the switch system, while keeping Rad Suits and other resources in mind. It’s a bit cryptic, but that felt like a strength here. Really enjoyed that section.

 

- The red key room/fight was also another highlight for me, dealing with a fresh closet of Chaingunners while the AV hovered just outside the window (or disappeared to resurrect everything outside). That was a nice little ambush/setup, for me.

 

 

 

- * The only quibble I have with the resources are the Soulspheres. Both secrets contain a Soulsphere, and then there’s a third in the AV closet. Given that the secrets aren’t very difficult to find, I wound up with a ridiculous amount of HP. My recommendation (for Ultra-Violence, at least) would be to keep the Soulsphere in the first secret, put a Berserk pack in the AV closet, and maybe give a Rocket Launcher or something in the second secret (you can probably keep the green armour in there).

 

 

- My issue with the visuals across the map are essentially two-fold.

1. There doesn’t seem to be a very consistent theme. Overall, the map feels like it wants to be a techbase, but then there are all kinds of different marble, skull, and even wood (and other hellish) textures randomly throughout. If I use my imagination, I could interpret this as “hell taking over the base, or warping reality”, but as it is currently, the textures just clash and it feels a bit messy.
2. This may just be my own preference, but I don’t think that OTEX and vanilla textures compliment each other very well. There’s an incredible disparity in the quality, colour, and “feel” of them, and I think the map would do well being 100% OTEX. Again, this might just be subjective, but it stuck out like a sore thumb for me.

As a side note, it’s worth taking the time to line up your textures with their natural “cutoff points”, as a way of fitting them to the geometry and really selling the look. Often times, it comes down to considering the heights/widths of the textures when building the actual architecture. The picture in the spoiler tag below is a perfect example from the map. I like the texture choices here, it’s just a shame that they aren’t “fit” to the wall and alcove nicely.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

With some polish, I think there’s a great map here. I’m a big “combat over visuals” person, and I think you’ve nailed the gameplay for the most part, which is nice. I definitely had fun. I liked the custom zombie dude, but the flying Mancs seemed a tad irrelevant (would that encounter actually play any different with normal, ground-based Mancs?). That said, I do like the flying Mancs, and would certainly enjoy seeing them in a more vertical-oriented setup.

 

Looking forward to more of these!

Edited March 10, 2020 by RonnieJamesDiner

[Austinado]

@RonnieJamesDiner thank you very much for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed some of the stuff and i am sure taking notes on your observations. @Misty i think this goes in the direction you were telling me. ;)

[HAK3180]

I tend to agree about the OTEX. You'll see I mentioned it in my video. I don't think it's necessarily all or nothing. I think some iwad textures can work well, and in some cases it's more a matter of proper transitioning, etc. Maybe not worth it in your case to try to figure that out, as I think OTEX pretty much has a "replacement" for all the stock stuff. But if someone were going the other way, i.e. mixing in a few OTEXes into their mostly iwad mapset, I think that can work well.

[Austinado]

Im making changes in textures in all maps, embracing only OTEX as advised by many of you guys.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

I will have to try this map out at some point.

[Austinado]

Map01

 

- I have changed all textures that were not OTEX;

- Changed shootable switches to be diferent of "normal" switches;

- playing in UV, i tooked off 2 blue spheres;

- Title Map changed...Prison Escape (Prision misspelled);

 

Still waiting for more feedback, or video playtesting so i can give MAP02.

 

 

[Austinado]

PLAYTESTING - MAP02 

(Dont forget to use Supercharged mod and OTEX textures and this file at the same time for playtesting, all information in the first post of this thread)

 

- After entering New Game and Ultra-Violence, type in your keyboard : IDCLEV02  to play map02;

- NO jumping/NO crouching

- YES overlook

- Shootable switches

- Expecting a little more feedback please...comments and video playtesting...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

=====//=====

Edited May 17, 2021 by Austinado

[Horus]

On level 1 (UV), I thought the health balance was a bit off. I was starved for health up until I got established in the poison section, which did negatively impact my enjoyment of that section. Then the poison section itself actually had too much health in my view, and also too many rad suits. Then the balance in the rest of the map was fine (and was much more enjoyable for it). Also music was D_RUNNIN, which I don't think really fit the map well. 

[Austinado]

Thank you for the feedback @Horus, ill take note of that and test it myself to provide more balance of health in the first area and probably less in in the poison section. I released just now MAP02 if you want to give it a try.

[Horus]

2 hours ago, Austinado said:

Thank you for the feedback @Horus, ill take note of that and test it myself to provide more balance of health in the first area and probably less in in the poison section. I released just now MAP02 if you want to give it a try.

 

Finished it just now. I think I prefer it to MAP01, it's a more consistent experience, if anything it's actually easier than its predecessor. Better music this time too. Keep it up!

 

A few things:

- Ignoring the berserk really helps you in the initial section as you can use it to replenish your health when the hitscanners whittle it down enough. I don't know if you intended the berserk not to be taken

 

- Some textures don't fit quite right, two examples below

Spoiler

 

 

- These medikits are partially sunk into the floor

Spoiler

 

- This switch would be better as a stay open trigger in my view. It is annoying if you drop down and then have to go all the way up again to reopen the door

Spoiler

 

[baja blast rd.]

Just some visual thoughts based on screenshots. I don't know exactly what aesthetic you're going for, but I think most of my comments are independent of that. 

 

1) https://i.imgur.com/SZh2GCm.jpg

Here I think you'd go a long way with better flat-texture matching. A lot of the design looks like "wallpapering." Start with the central ring sky is coming from: you have the black slab texture "lining" a ceiling made of brown woodgrain. Logically that black slab would have some depth to it too -- in the form of a border circle drawn 8-16 units behind the sky. The blood pool is black metal in places, but has this soft gray interior which doesn't make a lot of sense to me -- even if it were broken into fragments I wouldn't expect inner bits to be light gray. Matching doesn't have to be the same color by any means, but it's good when it makes sense as a "object." 

You can also ask yourself if it'd make sense for a feature "sliced or broken open" to have a certain flat. NUKESLAD is a good example of this, because not only would a green flat make sense, brown and various shades of gray are good matches too. 

 

Colors: orange and blue and red and yellow and white and brown and green ... it's a lot, and too many primary colors sort of slapped together. 

 

2) https://i.imgur.com/vTYsUvE.jpg

This shot provides a narrower view but it brings us to another point: the "seams" in the black tile texture are wildly disregarded. Presentation tends to look better if you cut materials off at seams -- or if you don't, do so for a "logical" reason (which to be fair, could be a lot of things). 

3) https://i.imgur.com/bUiIiIs.jpg

Again a narrow shot but here I'm noticing that the computer panels have the same ceiling flat as the main ceiling, which makes it difficult for me to parse the shape of the panels, at least from this angle. That concern aside, I'd expect the panel to have a suitable flat. The wall on the left is completely unadorned and the room is uniformly gray. It's a hallway and it's logical for unimportant/interstitial areas to have a lower detail level, but it probably wouldn't hurt to do a bit more. 

 

4) https://i.imgur.com/eZyaa33.jpg   https://i.imgur.com/AAfYvCW.jpg

We've got more "seam"-related mishaps, like the cubes that cut off abruptly everywhere. The warning strip having a soft gray flat underneath is a odd, like I'm almost expecting to be able to peel that to be "shipping" tape that was left there for some reason. :P  

The next shot has some misalignments and that hex flat is suspect. The railing on the right is a good case of where the black "strip" texture feels a thin -- but still substantial -- material applied to the side of the stone, due to how strong the seam is in the art. A good general idea is that texture-flat matching can be freer when one feature gives a strong impression of being a panel or slab applied on the other -- or a realistic strip, like warning tape -- and doesn't need any extra help to do that.
5) https://i.imgur.com/6uRBILV.jpg

An outdoor shot. The biggest new thing I'd draw attention to here is that varying the heights of perimeter features in outdoor areas is such a powerful way to add flavor. It generally even beats drawing hundreds of rocky sectors for extra detail alone. Everything being at one height level often looks artificial with a sky ceiling (with a rocky ceiling, it'd be expected) -- like "why do all of the rock faces and the buildings happen to be the same height." For that reason it helps to mix in rocks with two-sided "sectors" with a sky horizon behind, or pull certain rocks down or up (again with a sky horizon), play around with some building heights likewise. Etc. Although this is at a somewhat more advanced level, and I'd suggest dealing with the basics in 1-4 first.   

 

On the subject of flat-texturing pairing, even in the material tradition it makes a lot more sense to pair rocky features with ground flats that aren't strictly matching, for a lot of both logical and aesthetic reasons. (Even real life would bear that out. Hello, moss. :P) You do it fine here. (Just mentioning this so 1-4 don't inadvertently create the impression that all brown rocks should have brown ground, etc.) 

 

6) https://i.imgur.com/9UCAugZ.jpg

Looks fine. If you're really literal about it the pebble-metal join on the floor could use a thin border of metal, but that is overdoing it compared to the detail level elsewhere and this easily looks coherent as is. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by rdwpa

[eye.lid]

Got my ass kissed "goodnight" within 10 minutes of my first playthrough.
 

I had fun. I liked the modded weapons and the custom monsters. Map layout became confusing in the sewer section for me (but I smoked a cone this afternoon so maybe that's why I got lost).

[Austinado]

@Horus, thanks again for the feedback! I did some changes with that switch and some textures as well, the medkits also. The bersek is intended for the pinkies...the first encounter downstairs can be a little bit ruff, but there is enough space to not picking the bersek at first sight. Thanks again!

[Austinado]

@rdwpa thanks for the analysis! For sure i will take a look around in all the maps before its final release.

[Austinado]

@eye.lid, thanks for the video and the feedback! I already released here in this thread Map02  if you want to give it a try. ;)

[RonnieJamesDiner]

Map02: Base of Condamnation

 

(Not sure if you were going for a play-on-words there, or if you meant “condemnation”).

 

I’m going to leave the visual/texture critique alone for now -- rdwpa’s feedback was thorough, and there’s always time for you to polish things before a final release. I will say that I thought the overall consistency was better this time around, thematically speaking. I liked the techbase vibe.

 

This was another fun map with a good pace, but the highlight for me was how you laid the map out in terms of progression and back-tracking.

 

• I really enjoyed the glass window “previews” of monsters and arenas that would come later, as you stalked around the opening corridors of the base clearing mobs, and learning the location of key doors/switches.
• The RL pickup was a nice bit of subverted expectations – I was anticipating a rough sequence there, but was met only by a few Shotgunners, and continued on with my adventure again. I think it played into one of this maps other strengths, which is, it has a relatively fast pace once it gets going.
• I loved the outdoor section, for several reasons. For starters, it looked really good, in part due to the awesome sky texture choice. With the RL, and the sudden, vast amount of open space for high mobility, this was a really fun area. I think the Revs and Mancs are used well here, as long-range turrets. And, to top it off, you get this nice “full-circle” view of the entire base from the exterior, which is always weirdly satisfying. Gives me Romero vibes.
• Of the 3 different “keycard arenas”, the yellow was definitely my favourite. Very fun setup.
• Absolutely loved the midi choice.

 

I think the biggest criticism I have is the Berserk. It’s clear that I have to pick this up, which just feels... off. For starters, I’d at least move it out of the direct path of the player, so that it's more of a choice.

 

Again, ammo becomes quite abundant by the end. I had 90 shells, 370 bullets, and 30 rockets when I exited (I found a lot of rockets in that first secret outside). I never found the second secret. Health and armour seemed fine, though.

 

[Austinado]

@RonnieJamesDiner once again, thank you very much for the feedback. I see that the beserk its being kind of overall opinion to be placed not in the path of the player. I will be sure to move it and make it differently.

At first i had revenants after the pick up of the RL, but then i thought it would be a waste, since i give not much of rockets and after the teleport to the exterior, the player has serious fights with the mancubis and revenants....so shotgunners was like a medium soft choice so the player  can change quickly the weapon and save rockets. Condemnation is the right word, my mistake..again :D

Glad you had some fun...maybe tomorrow ill release here the 3rd map. Thanks alot for the feedbacks!

[Austinado]

 

 

PLAYTESTING - MAP03 (TESTERS NEEDED)  

 

)

 

- Doom2 IWAD/GZDOOM;

- After entering New Game and Ultra-Violence, type in your keyboard : IDCLEV03  to play map03;

- NO jumping/NO crouching;

- YES overlook;

- There can be shootable switches;

- Expecting a little more feedback please...comments and video playtesting if you may...

- Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

=====//=====

Edited May 17, 2021 by Austinado

[Horus]

Hmm, less keen on this map unfortunately, I think there are two main issues here in my view:

- Ammo scarcity / placement

- Dominance of corridor combat

 

The first time I have issue with ammo is the first mancubus battle - you get a rocket launcher and some rockets, but not enough rockets to clear them out leaving you to scrape with whatever ammo you have left

 

The ammo and the secret SSG in the dark cubbyholes almost seem mandatory to have enough ammo to complete the second half of the map. Talking of the secret SSG, I would reduce the size of the sector tagged secret (to be within the bounds of the SSG and no more), I triggered it without any apparent reward until I checked the automap and realised where I actually had to go.

 

Once you got the BK and took the lift up, pretty much that whole section was narrow corridor combat with the same textures which wasn't too interesting.

 

This is most likely a Supercharge issue rather than an issue with your map, but one of the barons bugged out when killed for me, repeating a weird noise and repeating an animation (see pic in spoiler)

 

Spoiler

 

Then in this section the ammo/health placement seemed a bit odd. You have a bunch of rockets and health up top where the mancubi/revenants are that would have been useful for the encounter itself - less so after it. Again I was kinda working through scraps in that encounter as far as ammo goes (pic below taken after I killed everything)

 

Spoiler

 

Again in the final section, ammo placement is suspect - you have it all placed right by the exit teleport itself, with all the enemies blocking it. I wouldn't have ever made it past this encounter had I not gone back to get the ammo hidden in the cubbyholes.

 

If I would say one thing you did better in this map than the other two, it would be that the care around textures and their transitioning is much better - I didn't find any of those type of issues that I identified in the last map.

[Austinado]

Thanks for the feedback @Horus. Though you are playtesting each map with pistol start, if you got notice, each map following the other is an continuation of the previous one. So the idea here, is for the maps to be continuous. I understand that there is a little lack of ammo in the beggining of the maps you guys are testing, but if you think about it, being a continuous map by map, you will always take ammo from the previous map you have been. Understand what im saying?

Have to check about that bug (maybe @Tango should know about this), ill try to change the monotonous corridor and see about the sector of the SSG. Thanks again for the feedback!