Has key ambush become a common map design?

[Hisymak]

I have played through several different megawads, and after all my experience, I always feel uncomfortable and in fear when I'm about to pick up a key. I have a feeling that in majority of cases, something will happen when I go to pick up a key. Like something will open where hordes of monsters are waiting for me, or monsters will start teleporting into all the room, or teleporting myself into a dangerous room is not a rare thing as well. Just picking up a key freely and safely, without triggering any trap or surprise, feels like a luxury.

Do you also feel key-traps and ambushes became a standard part of Doom gameplay?

[Super Mighty G]

Yes I do. I feel there is an over reliance on it in map design to the point where it loses any pretense of being an ambush. You see something sitting in the middle of an empty room, be it a power up or a key, you know monsters are going to fall out of the ceiling when you pick it up.

 

Playing the original IWADS you sometimes see a key just sitting in the corner of the map, such as in MAP18 of Doom 2. It has no monsters around it, it's just subtly hidden. Another key in that map has a different kind of ambush. You take a teleporter and are surrounded by Cacodemons. The key is mixed with the health bonuses to make it easy to overlook. A lot of that map is also optional. I'd personally like to see more of this kind of thing in map design. 

[DynamiteKaitorn]

It's fairly common that a key will be booby-trapped but than again, there were trapped keys in DooM/DooM II as well if I'm not mistaken.

 

Personally I'd more scared when a trap opens after grabbing a key but it's not nearby. THAT is freaky. :S Also, I like the occasional wad that doesn't trap keys. Funnily enough is more original.

[VGA]

I just played through all of PSX Doom and am starting PSX Final Doom and I have to say there is a distinct lack of key traps! I kept bracing myself for an ambush but they were very rare. A few times I walked over the key area a second time to make sure I triggered any linedef ... but nope.

 

How many key traps were there really in the original games? Maybe it's a more modern trope.

[EANB]

It's a fine trope to rely on. Progression items should require you to fight for them.

 

It's always been a part of Doom, since the blue key room in E1M3.

[Egg Boy]

It has not become common, it has always been common. Romero himself started this trope.

[Duke of Pathoris]

3 minutes ago, Egg Boy said:

It has not become common, it has always been common. Romero himself started this trope.

Oldest trick in the doom book.

[roadworx]

key ambushes and weapon ambushes have always been a part of the series

[NoXion]

I've basically come to expect them as a matter of course at this point. Although I do feel that there also plenty of times when picking up something important doesn't cause that to happen.

I think ambushes are popular because they work. They keep players on their toes, and they can effectively slow down less skilled players by making them take a more methodical approach lest they be overwhelmed. The Legions of Hell never play fair, and their very presence is explicitly shown in the originals to warp the local architecture in their favour.

[boris]

The first key ambush is in E1M3.

 

I think part of why it's become such a trope is that picking up a key is otherwise astonishingly unremarable. All you get is a pickup message. Just like picking up a clip. Nothing else. Compare that to picking up important items in the Zelda games. Keys are also pretty small, when lying on the floor they could easily be missed between bodies of dead monsters (that can be alleviated by putting them on a pedestal or something like that, but that, too, has potential influences on the combat flow).

[SilverMiner]

Well, if you don't like key hunting, make the world better - make maps which contain keys and traps but which could be finished without using any key

[Forli]

Keep in mind that in most wads (especially modern ones) the majority of encounters are meant to challenge the player in ways not related to how quickly they can react to a trap,it is a common practice to place challenging fights after getting a key or other important item precisely to make sure that the player is ready for an encounter that is likely to kill them.

 

I'll be honest, people complaining that "the ambushes in this map are too predictable" when they were never meant to be surprising or ambushes in the first place has become my number one annoyance when it comes to criticism of doom maps.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Forli

[TheOrganGrinder]

On the other hand, "key as reward for winning a big fight" is just as valid a trope as "key as trigger for the start of a big fight," just reversing the order of events.  As @boris notes though picking up a key is an unremarkable event from an interface and feedback perspective, and they're small enough as items that if you throw monsters into the space before the key is collected, I can imagine a situation where the player can no longer find the red key because it's hidden under a pile of cacodemon corpses.

 

From a narrative/pacing perspective it's pretty natural for the collection of a key to go hand-in-hand with a high point of the combat gameplay within a level so in that respect, not pairing a key with a big encounter can be a genuinely interesting subversion of the player's expectations.

[seed]

Yeah, I do as well. But it all depends on how its done, sometimes it's better to know when enemies are going to gangbang you, especially if it's going to be a difficult encounter which will most likely kill the player anyway, gives one a bit of time to think about how it could go.

 

...and I'd rather have those instead of random insta-popins any time of day. Fuck that shit.

[Egg Boy]

1 hour ago, Forli said:

I'll be honest, people complaining that "the ambushes in this map are too predictable" when they were never meant to be surprising or ambushes in the first place has become my number one annoyance when it comes to criticism of doom maps.

I completely agree! A mapper, is by no means, trying to surprise you when they put a key on a pedestal in the middle of a medium-large room. It's basically shorthand for "There will be a fight here, be prepared."

[Fonze]

On 3/13/2020 at 3:41 PM, Hisymak said:

I always feel uncomfortable and in fear when I'm about to pick up a key.

 

This is good and is exactly how you should feel. Soon you will come to live for that feeling, constantly fiending for more of the unknown, to the point that a free key is actually more a disappointment than a luxury, and at that point your journey to doom otaku status will be complete.

[HavoX]

Anything can be an ambush, not just keys. E.G. If you see a BFG9000 in plain sight, get ready -- it's a trap.

Edited March 15, 2020 by HavoX

[VGA]

7 minutes ago, HavoX said:

Anything can be an ambush, not just keys. E.G. If you see a BFG9000 in plain sight, get ready -- it's a trap.

Sounds like a trap for the demons!

 

The berserk is often used in traps, taking advantage of the player autoswitching to the fist!

[TheOrganGrinder]

One of these days I'm going to build a map with a key on an illuminated dais in the middle of an elaborate arena, all as atmospheric and menacing as I can make it, and the expected warp-in ambush when you grab the key will consist of exactly one zombie man.

[VGA]

56 minutes ago, TheOrganGrinder said:

One of these days I'm going to build a map with a key on an illuminated dais in the middle of an elaborate arena, all as atmospheric and menacing as I can make it, and the expected warp-in ambush when you grab the key will consist of exactly one zombie man.

Nah, just spawn one SS Nazi :D

 

SCHUTZSTAFFEL !!!!!!!

 

I had encountered that in an old wad, there was a puzzle to solve and then a single SS teleported in the middle of an elaborate pillar, I was surprised and then laughed my ass off once I realised that was it. Then after I exited I figured out I didn't load a Dehacked file and that was supposed to be a custom monster replacing the SS Nazi. Ahem.

Edited March 15, 2020 by VGA

[Juza]

Yep. It's very refreshing when I pick up a key and nothing happens. It's a very good feeling to reach your objective and just get to relax for a few moments before joining another fight.

[Devalaous]

2 hours ago, VGA said:

Nah, just spawn one SS Nazi :D

 

SCHUTZSTAFFEL !!!!!!!

 

I had encountered that in an old wad, there was a puzzle to solve and then a single SS teleported in the middle of an elaborate pillar, I was surprised and then laughed my ass off once I realised that was it. Then after I exited I figured out I didn't load a Dehacked file and that was supposed to be a custom monster replacing the SS Nazi. Ahem.

 

Was it Doom 2 in Name Only? There was a tester that had this exact thing happen, it made me cry tears of laughter

[Deleted_Account]

2 hours ago, Juza said:

Yep. It's very refreshing when I pick up a key and nothing happens. It's a very good feeling to reach your objective and just get to relax for a few moments before joining another fight.

This is generally how I handle keys in my maps. Every once in awhile I'll set a keytrap just to keep the player on their toes.

[HorrorMovieRei]

I don't mind it, I see it less as a trap now, and more like a "battle trigger" of sorts. It's easy to anticipate, so I usually save preemptively. I hate when maps do that for every single item of even mild importance that you pick up, but I'd say in general mappers are reasonable with the amount of item baiting.

[VGA]

18 minutes ago, HorrorMovieGuy said:

It's easy to anticipate, so I usually save preemptively

Wow, look at this fancy guy playing on PC!

[Tetzlaff]

On 3/14/2020 at 11:09 AM, SilverMiner said:

Well, if you don't like key hunting, make the world better - make maps which contain keys and traps but which could be finished without using any key

I think it would feel dissatisfying if you can unlock a part of the level, but you have basically no reason to go there since you can finish the level without that part. It could however work when there is a powerful item or weapon placed in those optional extra rooms.

[printz]

I've noticed that modern wads tend to only ambush you once per key. If you open a door and encounter lots of heavy monsters guarding a key, picking up that key will not trigger another wave. Usually that only happens when the room was empty to begin with. I'd like to see more merciless ambushes.

[pcorf]

Here is a saying. We will attack you if you take our keys.

[Fonze]

26 minutes ago, pcorf said:

Here is a saying. We will attack you if you take our keys.

 

Nobody steals our keys... and lives!

[NPC_CO8ALT]

Honestly its only a problem for the WADs that pull the ambush AFTER you just survived a huge fight in the previous room.

Its not fun to go from massive fight with tough enemies to earn the key, only to get ambushed afterward because the creator wanted to be a dick.