Post your demos!

[myk]

Yeah, my first exit using that route was 1:26. You might have seen the demo I sent by now. Not only the Archvile is dangerous, but also other monsters. I got caught by the Imps, by the Cacodemon, and by the Revenant a few times, and sometimes the Archvile has the uncanny tendency to stand in your view as you flee from the switch room he was guarding and "boom!"

[Nanami]

Grind2 is the first level I ever tried a speedrun on. Mostly because I know it like the back of my hand. =) I mapped out my route and then took a few runs to see what I'd need to do to get through it, then added in the monsters... My, that's hard. Even the zombiemen become dangerous if you're doing a speedrun (two of my demos ended with zombie death). You have to be lucky as well as skilled, it seems. Getting around big monsters in tight spaces is difficult sometimes. And the worst is getting past that stupid Arch-Vile to the exit! You want to get out of his line of sight, but at the same time you can't afford to stop! Well, I like my demo and I'll see if I can beat my time when I get home. ^_^

Good luck everyone.

[Grazza]

Nanami said:

...rockets at the Cacodemon. I think it's safer to lure him out, since if you watch my demo you see it only takes half a second or so.

True, but rockets should be a tad faster - and it is possible to keep two, as long as the mancubus drops after three hits.

Nanami said:

This path requires the chaingun sidetrack because those imps stand in the way, and it helps keep the Cacodemon in the cave off of you while you get the blue key.

I agree that it is basically the right route (not sure about the 20 seconds saving though), but the chaingun isn't necessary (I thought it was at first, but only because I was losing too much time and/or health at the three commandos). First time through, the imps can be dodged, and second time, you have the chaingun (courtesy of one of the late commandos). Just to show this isn't all hot air, I've mailed you a 1:11. Could go faster in a few ways (e.g. this was one run when I didn't have two rockets for the caco). OK, 1:10 no longer looks quite so über1337... 1:05 would be fantastic though.

Nanami: if this is your first speedrun, then wow! Compet-n better watch out.

[Nanami]

I'm definately going to watch that when I get home.

I started thinking about it, and I thought it might be possible to do it without the chaingun. I realized that the imps are sort of out of the way. I'll see if I can beat your 1:10. =) Can't wait to see it.

[myk]

I don't think killing the Caco helps. You still have to fire the weapon at it (not getting close), and the 1st few death frames are solid. Also, the Mancubus often survives a 3rd rocket and the Cocodemon can take 2 and survive on occasion, so you'd have to be quite lucky.

[Grazza]

Well, if the mancubus needs four rockets then your only option is to dodge the caco - so be it. Otherwise, if two direct hits from rockets don't kill the caco, a very small number of bullets will finish it off. Being able to run straight to the exit is a help with an archie targeting you, and during the whole sequence you have more options w.r.t. hiding from the archie with the rocket method than the dodging method.

It also helps if you have enough health at that point to survive a bit of splash damage.

The rocket method also makes particular sense on Nightmare, given the caco's tendency to fire rather than move.

[Espi]

Grind 2 speed, 1:08. I picked the chaingun tho, as I can't quite see what to do to the commandos without it... should I wait for them to start shooting eachother?

[myk]

Espi, wow. And I don't know exactly what Grazza did, but I tried without going for the Chaingun and did improve my time by 2 seconds once, but usually it takes about the same amount of time for me, and it's more lethal trying to make the HWDs fight each other... and sometimes they are quite obnoxious.

[Grazza]

Nice time. Espi is God... You seem to have time to do a bit of sightseeing, collect some souvenirs and still beat my times by a comfortable margin.

Espi said:

I picked the chaingun tho, as I can't quite see what to do to the commandos without it... should I wait for them to start shooting eachother?

Well, I died quite often when taking on the commandos with just the pistol, but every so often I got them lined up nicely, and could work on one at the front while the other two had a go at each other; I could then finish the last one off with the chaingin I'd just picked up. It seems to be possible to wake the commandos before opening their door by firing the pistol in the right places. I'm not quite sure exactly where that is, but I normally fire it to wake up the imps (so they don't get in the way), and then a bit later to awaken the revenant (to get it to move away from the yellow key).

Maybe Nanami will post my demos on the site; otherwise I can mail them if you like.

BTW, my time improvement with the pistol method was 3 seconds (best time without 1:14; some slow bits in both runs). Maybe I was right about 1:05, though I doubt I could get it myself.

[Espi]

Grazza said:

Espi is God...

Thanks :)
Heh... what does that make the compet-n people then? :P

[Nanami]

1:08? I've got to see this. My personal best is only 1:14 (I shaved two seconds off, woo!).

Still, the site's not actually about competition, remember. =) When I play for speed, I'm only competing against myself, trying to get a faster run than before. But still, 1:08, that's something to contend with. =P

There may be a little competition for fastest speed, but it's mostly about having fun and posting demos, so don't feel bad if you aren't as fast as our neighborhood God over there with his 1:08 speed. ^_^ After all, I can only get 1:14 and I MADE the level. =P

[Chopkinsca]

I have a lame one.
http://chopkkinscafdawrfas.homestead.com/files/KoRn.lmp
1-I didn't have the controls set up right
2-school computers aren't very comfortable
3-first time I played that level.
4-I suck.

[magikal]

Espi said:

Thanks :)
Heh... what does that make the compet-n people then? :P

That's a great run Espi, really kewl. Yep if was a Compet-N map they'd probably take it to low 0:50's I would say which says a lot about our skills.;)
I enjoyed that Korn.:)

[Grazza]

magikal said:

Yep if was a Compet-N map they'd probably take it to low 0:50's

Scary, but probably true. SR50 + lots of skill/luck, I suppose?

[myk]

Yeah, when I was recording I was wondering what someone like Sedlo could do on the map, because it requires a lot of precise movements and it isn't a long run.

[magikal]

Grazza said:

Scary, but probably true. SR50 + lots of skill/luck, I suppose?

Yup exactly that. I just managed 1:11 using SR50 when I could but it's so tough to be accurare with it.
Espi, did you do any demos of your excellent Ruma.wad?

[Nanami]

My best is still 1:14. If you manage to not run into any of the monsters in tight spaces (like the Cacodemon) you can save time.

Also, once you get to the shed, if you're fast and very lucky, you can kill off the Chaingunner on the left, slide around the other two to get the health, hit the switch, and get out. You have to be extra lucky because the one on the right will hit the one in the middle, making them fight for a crucial second or so. I can't get all of these to happen at once though. ^_^;

[Grazza]

Nanami said:

Also, once you get to the shed, if you're fast and very lucky, you can kill off the Chaingunner on the left, slide around the other two to get the health, hit the switch, and get out.

Yes, I imagine a truly optimized speedrun on this map would involve somehow sneaking past the chaingunners and sneaking out again without dying or losing much time. Assuming it is possible at all, I imagine it would require many attempts and some superb planning.

My favourite example of how it is possible to dodge past big monsters without taking too much damage is Cameron Prosser's Nightmare Pacifist TAS run on HR map22 (it's in this zip and is called pn22-123.lmp).

Judging from your 1:16 demo, I suspect the easiest area where you can improve your time is by straferunning more of the time (I'm talking about the standard SR40, not the very-difficult-to-control SR50). I'd say that a basic rule of speedrunning is that you should always be straferunning, unless you have a good reason not to (e.g. you need to fire at something that is directly ahead of you). I don't always manage to follow that rule myself (that's one reason I'm so slow!), but I do kick myself when I watch one of my demos and see places where I should have been straferunning, but wasn't.

[Nanami]

Yeah, I've never tried a strafe run, which is probably why mine are slow. =P

[Grazza]

Nanami said:

Yeah, I've never tried a strafe run, which is probably why mine are slow. =P

Actually, I think your times are astonishingly fast, if you are only running at "normal" speed. It's quite easy to get the hang of straferunning - you quickly become adept at judging a 38.7 degree angle, and it becomes second nature to press the forward and strafe left/right keys together. Avoiding bumping into things when straferunning takes a bit more practice though (I think I'm still in that stage).

[Nanami]

When I release Dream.wad, I'll be interested to see some speed runs. Mostly because, to get the best time possible, it will require box-hopping, even though there's a path to the key. There are a bunch of monsters in the way unless you jump around on boxes, so the speedrun will require skill and balance. =)

[myk]

Grazza said:

Actually, I think your times are astonishingly fast, if you are only running at "normal" speed.

Indeed, mine are about the same and I do tend to use straferunning. But I don't know, speedrunning tends to make me a bit tense, unlike maxkills (where I get hot-blooded but looser) thus my control isn't too good.

[Chopkinsca]

strafe running?

that is the only way I walk most of the time..
I do it without thinking..

[Nanami]

Well anyway, back to the point at hand.

Anyone have an idea for a UD/D2/TNT/Plutonia map everyone could play and do whatever they like (maxkills, speed, tyson, whatever) and send in?

I have a whole folder full of demos I need to upload.

[Espi]

grind2x max, legacy.

magikal said:

Espi, did you do any demos of your excellent Ruma.wad?

Heh now that you mention it, I made this legacy demo today. :)

For the wad click here.

[Nanami]

/me downloads all that stuff.

Page is being worked on right now. When it's fixed, I'll upload all the new demos and stuff. ;)

Keep 'em coming. You can either post them here or send it to me or Magikal.

[Grazza]

Espi said:

For the wad click here.

I played Ruma yesterday, after seeing magikal's comment - very nice map, and quite original in theme and layout (at least, I don't recall having played anything too similar). I'd downloaded it months ago, but for some reason hadn't got around to playing it.

[magikal]

Grazza said:

I played Ruma yesterday, after seeing magikal's comment - very nice map, and quite original in theme and layout (at least, I don't recall having played anything too similar). I'd downloaded it months ago, but for some reason hadn't got around to playing it.

Espi I'm glad I asked you, that's a great demo and you look as if you could go faster. I really enjoyed Ruma when you released it, I did a demo a while ago(legacy1.32b4 plays 1.40)...I like your route much better.:)
I didn't even strafe run back then.

[DooMer 4ever]

Heh, I wonder why espi named his levels that way. Ruma and Karmea are the ones I've heard of and I don't think they're bad at all.

Anyway, now I'm going to download some demos :) Please keep this thread alive, this is really fun but I don't have time to do any demos now :(

btw, grazza. I recorded a riverge map2 maxdemo in weekend (first try). I could send it to you if you're interested. It took me nearly 20 minutes though so I might try it again later.

[Grazza]

DooMer 4ever said:

Heh, I wonder why espi named his levels that way. Ruma and Karmea are the ones I've heard of and I don't think they're bad at all.

Do those words mean something bad in Finnish?

DooMer 4ever said:

Please keep this thread alive, this is really fun but I don't have time to do any demos now :(

Perhaps there ought to be a separate "Demos and Speedrunning" forum. After all, this thread already contains more posts than the Eternity forum has in total. I noticed Ling recently asked if the CC guys would like their own forum. If there are enough people who think they would post regularly about demos, I think it would make sense.

DooMer 4ever said:

btw, grazza. I recorded a riverge map2 maxdemo in weekend (first try). I could send it to you if you're interested. It took me nearly 20 minutes though so I might try it again later.

If you send it, I'll watch it. 20 minutes doesn't sound bad at all on this map.