What are the biggest misconceptions regarding DOOM?

[boris]

That the editor one is using has anything to do with the capabilities of the engine ("I want to lower a floor! Can I do that in Doombuilder?").

[seed]

23 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Why? because its not a carbon copy of the original with flashy graphics?

There is exploration, Fast paced Combat and elements of horror (gore horror).

 

25 years and no one is able, and will never be able, to define what Doom is. It's purely subjective.

 

Gonna have to agree with jazz here, just because it's not classic Doom in HD doesn't mean it isn't Doom. Not everyone's cup of tea, very different, and not perfect (BTW classic Doom was not perfect either), sure, but this claim is increasingly looking more childish the more it pops up on this site and other places. The developers can do whatever they want with the IP, and we're not entitled to anything, much less "what is Doom and what it's not".

[jazzmaster9]

By this logic Dune 2/2000 isn't Dune because its an RTS and not an adventure game.

or that Wolfenstein 3d isn't wolfenstein because it isn't pure stealth

Edited March 31, 2020 by jazzmaster9

[Vesperas_]

24 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

There is exploration, Fast paced Combat and elements of horror (gore horror).

 

So does Painkiller.

[jazzmaster9]

3 minutes ago, Vesperas_ said:

 

So does Painkiller.

and Doom...

Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal Included

last time i checked the Mancubus and Cacodemon's arent in Painkiller.

 

not liking it is fine, but we have no authority on what Doom is or isn't PERIOD.

Edited March 31, 2020 by jazzmaster9

[HorrorMovieRei]

2 hours ago, Jayextee said:

Anything other than absolute acknowledgement that DOOM II's soundtrack is more jazz and blues than it is heavy metal.

[jazzmaster9]

here's another one, Infinitely Tall monsters are a product of Engine limitations, since the engine "can't differentiate Z height between 2 actors"

[Vesperas_]

7 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

and Doom...

Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal Included

last time i checked the Mancubus and Cacodemon's arent in Painkiller.

 

not liking it is fine, but we have no authority on what Doom is or isn't PERIOD.

 

The Mancubus isn't in Doom/Ultimate Doom. I'm not sure what your point is there.

 

Doom is defined in its manual: "The game play for Doom is quite simple. This is not a cumbersome role-playing game, but an action-orientated slug-a-thon. You don't need super-human reflexes to win - using your wits is JUST AS IMPORTANT. To escape Doom, you need both brains AND the killer instinct."

 

The new games are missing half of that original formula. The gameplay of Doom 2016 is basically Painkiller. Eternal is like an awkward love affair between Painkiller and Half-Life. They're fun in their own way for a playthrough once or twice but that's about it. Your mileage may vary. The point is, they're so different that they had might as well be called different things.

[Senor500]

It'd be nice if we wouldn't fight over wether or not the new Doom games are Doom everytime they are mentioned.

[jazzmaster9]

12 minutes ago, Vesperas_ said:

Doom is defined in its manual: "The game play for Doom is quite simple. This is not a cumbersome role-playing game, but an action-orientated slug-a-thon. You don't need super-human reflexes to win - using your wits is JUST AS IMPORTANT. To escape Doom, you need both brains AND the killer instinct."

 

That only defines Doom 1 (shareware) though, not the series in general. A series can't remain stagnant for long.

Doom 3 isn't an Action Oriented slug-a-thon, barely an action game and lets not forget the Doom RPG games

 

using this logic Wolfenstein 3d isn't true Wolfenstein because it is pure stealth.

or  Symphony of the Night is not true castlevania because it has emphasis on exploration and item stats, than a straight forward platformer.

 

After being in the forums for some odd years everyone still debating on what Doom really is but it's futile.

not liking something is fine, thats your opinion, but thats all it will ever be. an Opinion

6 minutes ago, Senor500 said:

It'd be nice if we wouldn't fight over wether or not the new Doom games are Doom everytime they are mentioned.

Nahh, someone needs to prove they are objectively right about their interpretation of doom, even though it can't remain stagnant in the 90s.

Edited March 31, 2020 by jazzmaster9

[Senor500]

Doom is Doom! This thread doesn't need such debate.

[jazzmaster9]

3 minutes ago, Senor500 said:

Doom is Doom! This thread doesn't need such debate.

Exactly, no one, besides the ip owners, can truly define what Doom as a whole series is.

People can try, and have tried, but to no avail.

 

it's the same old debate when Doom 3 came out, when Doom 4 was first announced, and now with Doom Eternal.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by jazzmaster9

[seed]

16 minutes ago, Vesperas_ said:

Half-Life.

 

Lul only in your dreams maybe. Apart from some linear progression early on, these 2 games have nothing in common.

[CommanderRex328]

that it is meant to be just a mindless action shooting game and that doomguy is a beast that is always full of rage when he is human and has humanity and shows it many times... this is what i see new doom fans say most of the time (not all, i dont want to generalize)...

[Cruduxy Pegg]

After reading this thread? That it is a hard game with hard puzzles.

[Thermal Lance]

32 minutes ago, CommanderRex328 said:

that it is meant to be just a mindless action shooting game and that doomguy is a beast that is always full of rage when he is human and has humanity and shows it many times... this is what i see new doom fans say most of the time (not all, i dont want to generalize)...

Yup, Doomguy was supposed to be a blank slate to project yourself into. Outside from what he looks like, nothing was meant to be fleshed out. You are the last man standing and you have no other options than going to hell and back. The little story there was is there only to be there... No use in quoting you-know-what.

 

I never read the doom comics but I do know the protagonist in the game was intended to be the mentioned blank slate. I have no idea why a part of the fanbase felt compelled to attach a personality to the character. 

[Super Mighty G]

1 hour ago, Vesperas_ said:

 

The Mancubus isn't in Doom/Ultimate Doom. I'm not sure what your point is there.

 

Doom is defined in its manual: "The game play for Doom is quite simple. This is not a cumbersome role-playing game, but an action-orientated slug-a-thon. You don't need super-human reflexes to win - using your wits is JUST AS IMPORTANT. To escape Doom, you need both brains AND the killer instinct."

 

The new games are missing half of that original formula. The gameplay of Doom 2016 is basically Painkiller. Eternal is like an awkward love affair between Painkiller and Half-Life. They're fun in their own way for a playthrough once or twice but that's about it. Your mileage may vary. The point is, they're so different that they had might as well be called different things.

 

57 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

That only defines Doom 1 (shareware) though, not the series in general. A series can't remain stagnant for long.

Doom 3 isn't an Action Oriented slug-a-thon, barely an action game and lets not forget the Doom RPG games

 

using this logic Wolfenstein 3d isn't true Wolfenstein because it is pure stealth.

or  Symphony of the Night is not true castlevania because it has emphasis on exploration and item stats, than a straight forward platformer.

 

After being in the forums for some odd years everyone still debating on what Doom really is but it's futile.

not liking something is fine, thats your opinion, but thats all it will ever be. an Opinion

Nahh, someone needs to prove they are objectively right about their interpretation of doom, even though it can't remain stagnant in the 90s.

 

Enough of this. The Eternal sub-forum is already clogged up with this nonsense, we don't need it here too. Stick to the topic. 

[Lizardcommando]

16 hours ago, MassiveEdgelord said:

 

• Doomguy is completely nameless (Although we don't know his first name, his last name is likely "Blaze")

 

So does this mean that Doomguy is canonically related to Commander Keen and BJ from the Wolfenstein series?

[Vesperas_]

1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

That only defines Doom 1 (shareware) though, not the series in general. A series can't remain stagnant for long.

Doom 3 isn't an Action Oriented slug-a-thon, barely an action game and lets not forget the Doom RPG games

 

using this logic Wolfenstein 3d isn't true Wolfenstein because it is pure stealth.

or  Symphony of the Night is not true castlevania because it has emphasis on exploration and item stats, than a straight forward platformer.

 

After being in the forums for some odd years everyone still debating on what Doom really is but it's futile.

not liking something is fine, but again NO authority on what Doom is or isn't.

Nahh, someone needs to prove they are objectively right about their interpretation of doom, even though it can't remain stagnant in the 90s.

 

I wouldn't describe it as stagnant. Why do you think that? The original Doom games has been doing quite well. People are still releasing new WADs for them all of the time, including John Romero, and the community still has many active members that have been around for over a decade. It was also just re-released and it has higher ratings than Eternal.

 

Doom (Classic): 94% Positive Reviews

Doom Eternal: 91% Positive Reviews

 

Doom 3 is different too. It's not a bad game--just different. Either you get it, or you don't. It's not subtle. It's very clear. That quoted text from the manual is printed in every Doom game, not just the shareware card. I was actually looking at the manual for PSX Doom when I copied it and I know it's also printed in the Doom II: Hell on Earth and Final Doom manuals.

 

1 hour ago, seed said:

 

Lul only in your dreams maybe. Apart from some linear progression early on, these 2 games have nothing in common.

 

Sure, Urdak is absolutely nothing like Xen from Half-Life.

 

16 minutes ago, Super Mighty G said:

Enough of this. The Eternal sub-forum is already clogged up with this nonsense, we don't need it here too. Stick to the topic.

 

Yeah, it sure is. You're right. I'm done. It's pointless anyway.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Vesperas_

[snapshot]

1 hour ago, Senor500 said:

It'd be nice if we wouldn't fight over wether or not the new Doom games are Doom everytime they are mentioned.

By the looks of this thread it seems like one of the biggest misconceptions is that Doom is tied to just being one specific type of game and that any different take on it is enough to make it no longer worthy of being called Doom.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Vesperas_ said:

Sure, Urdak is absolutely nothing like Xen from Half-Life.

 

Yup, definitely nothing alike, just a few greens in places means absolutely nothing. Not even BM's take on Xen is close - and BM's Xen was in development well before work on Eternal officially commenced, so an argument that they were inspired by Eternal or vice versa is moot.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by seed

[Optimus]

Besides the obvious already mentioned (Doom being 2.5D, hitscanner being a bad thing for Doom, doom is just always Run and Gun, etc) one I noticed in 2-3 places don't know why, that Doom 2 removed the F5 low detail option (it didn't really).

[Thermal Lance]

2 minutes ago, Optimus said:

Besides the obvious already mentioned (Doom being 2.5D, hitscanner being a bad thing for Doom, doom is just always Run and Gun, etc) one I noticed in 2-3 places don't know why, that Doom 2 removed the F5 low detail option (it didn't really).

Well, Doom is kind of always run-and-gun. At least the original ones... Up until they decide on some bullshit enemy placements that stops the gameplay in it's track. But, usually, there is plenty health items and secrets laying around to keep the massacre going. I think the originals truely reach it's zenith when you "release the kraken" and go completely ham on the demons. Even if that means you'll need to reload a couple times. Just don't expect to leave the level at full health. ;) 

[seed]

16 minutes ago, Optimus said:

I noticed in 2-3 places don't know why, that Doom 2 removed the F5 low detail option (it didn't really).

 

I still don't understand where this originated from.

[Bauul]

Sticking to the topic, the one that gets me is always "Doom's soundtrack is mostly metal".  It really isn't, there are more ambient and melodic tracks than anything that could be described as metal.

 

I think it's probably because the metal pieces really stood out that they became more memorable.  

Edited March 31, 2020 by Bauul

[Zanieon]

20 minutes ago, Bauul said:

I think it's probably because the metal pieces really stood out that they became more memorable.  

 

Quite sure Suspense was much memorable as At Doom's Gate, being the first eerie song to play through the progression it completely changes the mood of E1M5 in comparison to the previous maps.

[Bauul]

2 minutes ago, Zanieon said:

 

Quite sure Suspense was much memorable as At Doom's Gate, being the first eerie song to play through the progression it completely changes the mood of E1M5 in comparison to the previous maps.

 

Oh I agree, I more meant "memorable" in the sense that people seem to "remember" that Doom had more metal than other types of music.

[taufan99]

That Robert Prince himself arranged the soundtracks based on the levels they appear. John Romero is actually responsible for that. Several DOOM II tracks were originally meant to appear in the original DOOM (notably Waiting for Romero to Play, which was E1M3's song in the November 1993 preview build in the video A Visit to id). Others, such as Between Levels, did still make their way to the final game, but not in a place they were at first meant (that track was meant to be DOOM II's intermission text, but later moved to MAP03 and a few other maps).

[Optimus]

1 hour ago, Thermal Lance said:

Well, Doom is kind of always run-and-gun. At least the original ones... Up until they decide on some bullshit enemy placements that stops the gameplay in it's track. But, usually, there is plenty health items and secrets laying around to keep the massacre going. I think the originals truely reach it's zenith when you "release the kraken" and go completely ham on the demons. Even if that means you'll need to reload a couple times. Just don't expect to leave the level at full health. ;) 

 

I am mostly annoyed how it's established that the only right way to play Doom is that you always have to move. But that's what I've started hearing since Doom 2016. Because these games I think now force you to move around, player is slower and struggles and enemies are faster and more clever. While a big thing of classic Doom was how fast the player was moving, however there are cases when I am playing where I lay back or on a high ledge and snipe enemies patiently from far away, or move slower and more cautiously in dark corridors, looking behind corners, pausing to look for secrets (certainly not always resembling the run around in arenas reimagined Doom 2016/Eternal). Now, because everyone is talking about the run and gun elements, somehow the new Doom francise had to force you to play only this way (and quite different and more cumbersome than classic Doom where you could move faster than the projectiles).

Edited March 31, 2020 by Optimus

[silentzorah]

Myth: That one misaligned texture will open if you wallhump everything in the room.  It probably has an early BFG.

Reality: You have to hit a switch way on the other side of the level, then enter through another secret door that opened, pass through an invisible trigger that opens a teleport which drops you on the other side of the misaligned texture to pick up a weapon you already have.