Satanic Infestation Open IWAD Project (CURRENT VERSION v0.0.5)

[sergeirocks100]

i understand why you could see it as some sort of cheap bootleg of Doom, but i'm trying to make it sort of a middle ground between Freedoom and Doom, it bears far more of a resemblance to Doom than Freedoom does, but enough changed to avoid legal issues and make it somewhat more of it's own thing

[IvanDobrovski]

On 4/12/2020 at 12:43 AM, Dynamo said:

Doom 2 No Way Id Did It

I love this, so cruel yet funny, and true...

 

Honestly, you should stick to making sky textures as I think they're the only good things I see come out of the thread as of now... Might want to start small rather than big, you know.

[sergeirocks100]

i'm sorry if you think my work isn't very good, but i'm not going to limit my own potential just because someone else said i should, i believe the project is going pretty well so far, and you can take a look at the github page if you don't believe me

[IvanDobrovski]

1 hour ago, sergeirocks100 said:

i'm sorry if you think my work isn't very good, but i'm not going to limit my own potential just because someone else said i should, i believe the project is going pretty well so far, and you can take a look at the github page if you don't believe me

I did and I saw nothing meaningful there as of late. As of ever, really. Not to mention the amount of people who showed you that trying to resemble Doom might get you in trouble with licensing issues, regardless of how "legally closely resembling" you might want to make it. You could help finish FreeDoom perhaps, that things been in development hell AFAIK, they could use the help.

[sergeirocks100]

map03 is more or less finished, here's some screenshots:

Spoiler

with map03 done, i expect v0.0.2 to be out soon, so stay tuned

[Fonze]

If this is a project you intend to have any staying power in terms of the maps provided, you may benefit from researching more about doom level design in terms of interesting areas, encounters, and aesthetics. Simple layering of linedefs/architecture, texture banding, and clean transitions would improve the looks of your maps, while studying more about non-orthogonal line-work would help create areas more interesting to explore than the squares all shown in those shots. Also the sides of the metal window in the first shot are unaligned startan with no clean transition.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you with this post, quite the opposite really! Just since you are calling those shots "finished," I figure some constructive feedback on your maps might be a good look. Best of luck to you, but I really do hope you drop the stated goal of being a free, doom replacement while keeping so many assets as obvious derivatives of the source ones. It just seems like something that could start the process of getting us all in trouble at some point to me. Of course I'm no lawyer so that's my own fud showing, to be fair.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Fonze

[sergeirocks100]

i appreciate your feedback, currently, i'm just trying to pump the maps out just so they're there and somewhat finished, i plan on refining them later on in the project, and, while i do appreciate your concerns about the legality of this, i've said it before and i will say it again, while the assets might look a lot more like their Doom equivalents than the Freedoom ones, i am still making sure that there's enough different that i don't have to worry about legal issues

[fraggle]

6 hours ago, sergeirocks100 said:

 i'm making sure that my enemy designs are different enough from the Doom equivalents that i likely won't need to worry about legal trouble

This will be the last I'll say on the matter - I hope that you've consulted with a lawyer to confirm that's the case, because if you aren't a lawyer then you aren't qualified to judge. Best of luck with your project.

[sergeirocks100]

v.0.0.2 is out, here's the changes:

map03 is added

minor improvements to map02

i dug in the attic and i replaced the pistol sprites with scubasteve's and the shotgun sprites with cheapalert's

new pickup sprite for the shotgun

the dehacked script now works properly

two new skies, originally created by silverminer and modified by me, the buildings in the second sky came from a skyline of Detroit taken by Ken Lund

here's the link: https://github.com/sergeirocks100/satanicinfestation/releases/tag/v0.0.2

[sergeirocks100]

i've made another sky, originally created by silverminer and modified by me

Spoiler

the mountains came from a picture of the black hills originally taken by Runner1928

[sergeirocks100]

here's a preview of a very unfinished version of map04:

Spoiler

 

[sergeirocks100]

i finally decided to test the wad in chocolate doom, and using the elevator on the first map makes it crash, and i don't know why

Spoiler

 

[Fonze]

From the doomwiki:

Quote

Doom contains a limit on the number of platforms which can be moving simultaneously. A platform is defined as a sector with a moving floor. The limit in vanilla Doom is 30. If the platform limit is exceeded, the game quits with the message "P_AddActivePlat: No more plats!".

 

Which I found using Google

 

 

It means you have more than 30 moving floors/ceilings in your map. Maybe consider "joining" some together so they count as 1 instead of multiple, which you can do with no fear so long as they have the same sector properties (floor/ceiling heights, light levels, specials, flats, etc)

[sergeirocks100]

there are only 3 moving platforms on the whole map, the platform you use to get up to the switch that opens the door to the shotgun room, and the 2 platforms with zombies on them, i'm not sure why this is happening

[sergeirocks100]

it turns out the problem was that i had no sector tag on the first platform, the platform worked as intended on gzdoom, but crashed when you tried to use it on chocolate doom, i managed to fix it by assigning the platform a sector tag and setting the sides of the platform to that sector tag, now the platform works correctly on chocolate doom

[joe-ilya]

12 hours ago, sergeirocks100 said:

it bears far more of a resemblance to Doom than Freedoom does

But it shouldn't, it should stay out of resembling Doom, just like Freedoom does, but don't confuse this with that your mod has to resemble FreeDoom, it should stay out of both of them, instead of being a middle ground between them (which is being bootleg), it should be overground, maybe instead of demons you kill fantasy beasts and travel time or something.

Your MAP03 and MAP04 also look like bootleg versions of the Doom 2 maps, why does it have to be like that? If you don't have any ideas of your own, why make a total conversion if you lack creativity of your own in every aspect from enemy design and maps?

[sergeirocks100]

i could make an original project, but that isn't really the point, i just want to do a better job at capturing the essence of Doom than Freedoom does, which i believe i'm doing well, if i made something significantly different from Doom, i would pretty much be making another Freedoom project, sure, my project might seem like a cheap bootleg, but it pretty much has to if what i'm trying to accomplish is to be done well, Freedoom already exists if you want a free, libre Doom replacement that's significantly different from Doom, my project is trying to be a free, libre Doom replacement that's much more like Doom, and if i wanted to make something that was significantly different from Doom, i wouldn't be working on this project right now

[IvanDobrovski]

14 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

i could make an original project, but that isn't really the point

We got that already...

 

14 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

i just want to do a better job at capturing the essence of Doom than Freedoom does

Refer to the quote below.

8 hours ago, fraggle said:

This will be the last I'll say on the matter - I hope that you've consulted with a lawyer to confirm that's the case, because if you aren't a lawyer then you aren't qualified to judge. Best of luck with your project.

 

14 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

which i believe i'm doing well

You might be the only person on that boat.

 

14 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

if i made something significantly different from Doom, i would pretty much be making another Freedoom project

Sounds to me like you still are trying to make a Freedoom only... more like Doom? Do you know why Freedoom was made?

 

14 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

sure, my project might seem like a cheap bootleg, but it pretty much has to if what i'm trying to accomplish is to be done well

Cheap bootleg and what you're trying to accomplish is to be done well? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Are you delusional? These contradict each other... You wouldn't call it a cheap bootleg if it was done right. Would you call Doom The Way Id Did a cheap bootleg? No! Because they're done right... See the problem?

 

14 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

Freedoom already exists if you want a free, libre Doom replacement that's significantly different from Doom

Yes, it does. People pointed that out anyway.

 

14 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

my project is trying to be a free, libre Doom replacement that's much more like Doom, and if i wanted to make something that was significantly different from Doom, i wouldn't be working on this project right now

Honestly you should pay close attention to this sentence because people including fraggle weighed in on this matter yet you insist on this. There's a threshold of how much different you must be in order to not get a C&D or whatever law enforces on you. This whole project has a very flimsy foundation that could break if someone just nudged it. You don't seem to realize it despite multiple people telling you otherwise. Honestly, you should take a closer look at what it is you're really trying to accomplish with respect to all that has been said and move from there. You're wasting your time, and time is a precious resource you can't take back...

Edited April 14, 2020 by IvanDobrovski

[joe-ilya]

But FreeDoom is not that far away from Doom, it still has demons, tech bases and hell, it's still bootleg in its own way, what you're making is not all that different from what FreeDoom does, except this feels like a rip-off.

I just thought you could make something even further away from Doom, kind of like Chex Quest, and Hacx did. But I guess you don't want to do anything interesting and just try to be a FreeDoom clone, despite you saying that it's not, you're still using the same behaviour as Doom, but with different graphics, which is exactly what FreeDoom is doing, only it's done with a taste of its own, but it looks like you're just trying to get away with making it as Doom as possible, only free, but honestly, I'd rather just buy Doom 2, it costs less than a dollar if you get it from the full classic Doom pack on Steam, a couple of pennies if you get it at a discount, a homeless person can afford it.

At least FreeDoom is different enough for me to not prefer to buy Doom to save money for a crumb of chewing gum.

[sergeirocks100]

i suppose you're right, i am more or less walking on thin ice with this project, and there's a chance that something might happen if i keep going where i'm going, maybe it would be the best for me and the project if i tried to distance it a little more from Doom, i can still fill that void between Freedoom and Doom without mimicking Doom so much, and my project would be better off if it was more of it's own original product, but the problem is, i don't know how i could be more original while still maintaining the Doom-esque spirit i'm trying to go for

[joe-ilya]

There's no void between FreeDoom and Doom, it's all in your head.

Just play Doom if you love it so much.

[SlayerOGames666]

Y'know, these three maps kinda scare me, because they are startin to look more and more like their DOOM 2 counterparts. So when i make my maps, they wont be like their DOOM 2 versions, and now you know why. Also, my maps are gonna be the secret levels, OK?

[SlayerOGames666]

53 minutes ago, joe-ilya said:

But FreeDoom is not that far away from Doom, it still has demons, tech bases and hell, it's still bootleg in its own way, what you're making is not all that different from what FreeDoom does, except this feels like a rip-off.

I just thought you could make something even further away from Doom, kind of like Chex Quest, and Hacx did. But I guess you don't want to do anything interesting and just try to be a FreeDoom clone, despite you saying that it's not, you're still using the same behaviour as Doom, but with different graphics, which is exactly what FreeDoom is doing, only it's done with a taste of its own, but it looks like you're just trying to get away with making it as Doom as possible, only free, but honestly, I'd rather just buy Doom 2, it costs less than a dollar if you get it from the full classic Doom pack on Steam, a couple of pennies if you get it at a discount, a homeless person can afford it.

At least FreeDoom is different enough for me to not prefer to buy Doom to save money for a crumb of chewing gum.

Ah, yes. ACS, DECORATE, LANGUAGE, MAPINFO, GAMEINFO and an ENDOOM lump should somewhat give a start. But, it's meant to be vanilla.

[joe-ilya]

Why vanilla though? You're only limiting your creativity when all you want is graphic changes, what does this idea have that FreeDoom does not, seems redundant to have two free graphical replacements that don't change location and gameplay.

Chex Quest and Hacx are vanilla BTW.

[SlayerOGames666]

11 minutes ago, joe-ilya said:

Why vanilla though? You're only limiting your creativity when all you want is graphic changes, what does this idea have that FreeDoom does not, seems redundant to have two free graphical replacements that don't change location and gameplay.

Chex Quest and Hacx are vanilla BTW.

I know, im gonna try and fix it.

*without freedoom*

[Samwow]

Instead of directly basing the maps in the WAD off of Doom 2, why not create original layouts with similar themes? Why recreate existing maps when those maps already exist, in an arguably better form, especially when you aren't really adding anything new to them?

[Hard2Poop]

13 hours ago, IvanDobrovski said:

I did and I saw nothing meaningful there as of late. As of ever, really.

DISLIKE.

You go, @sergeirocks100. You're the man. F the haters.

[Agentbromsnor]

First of all, I wish you good luck with replacing all of the resources! This is a massive undertaking for just one person!

Secondly: Do you intend to replace every resource with your MS Paint art or do they only serve as a demonstration of your ideas?

[sergeirocks100]

a lot of replies have been posted while i was staring at the inside of my own eyelids, so i will try to address them all in one comment, there is still a point for my project to exist when Doom is so cheap, sure, Doom is cheap, but can you share it with your friends? can you upload it to your own website? can you take assets from it and use it in your own project? the answer to all three is no, not legally, you could with Freedoom, but it's not very similar to Doom at all, my project aims to be closer to Doom's spirit, while still having the freedoms of Freedoom, imagine if you had this hypothetical wad called "Super Hell Death Slaughter" or something of that sort, and it made heavy use of Doom's satanic elements, but if you played it in Freedoom, all you would get is weird runes in place of pentagrams and inoffensive aliens in place of demons, whereas, with what i plan my project to be, you could still maintain the spirit of the wad and wads similar in tone, most Doom map packs were created for the spirit of Doom in mind, and when Freedoom has a different spirit, the two tend not to work very well together, and i already understand that i am taking a lot of risks with the project being as similar to Doom as it is, which is why i plan on going in my own direction a little more, to make things more interesting and make legal issues less likely to happen, and i agree, my maps are a bit too close to the Doom ones, and i'm planning on doing more or less my own original thing from the rest of map04 onwards, and no, my art only serves as concept art, to show people my ideas as well as lay down a groundwork for sprite artists, because i'm terrible at drawing sprites

[Redneckerz]

11 hours ago, sergeirocks100 said:

i could make an original project, but that isn't really the point, i just want to do a better job at capturing the essence of Doom than Freedoom does, which i believe i'm doing well,

If it looks too similar to Doom itself (As in level layout, as in Monster appearance, as in anything else) then its likely not legal.

There is a reason why FreeDoom looks substantially different from regular Doom, for these exact same reasons. The legal nature of things does not care what you mean with ''capturing the essence'': If it looks too similar to Doom, its (likely) not allowed.

 

Consider Fraggles advice as leading, considering he spearheaded Choco Doom and worked on FreeDoom.  Don't put yourself into legal troubles when after all your (recognized) hard work gets C&Ded because you tried to capture the essence of the original work.

 

11 hours ago, sergeirocks100 said:

my project might seem like a cheap bootleg, but it pretty much has to if what i'm trying to accomplish is to be done well,

Except the whole point of avoiding legal issues is exactly to avoid looking like a cheap bootleg. If you yourself agree already that it looks like one, how should a legal vendor view your work, if it would ever come to it?

 

Like everyone else, i am not trying to discourage you, but you seem to have a fixed impression of what your game is supposed to look like. People with more experience in that branch point out to you that you need to take some cautionary steps as a warning signal, but you keep on repeating that you do not want to make a FreeDoom clone, rather, something that looks more closer to Doom. Which is exactly what folks like Fraggle try to point out to you that you must tread lightly in that direction.
 

17 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

a lot of replies have been posted while i was staring at the inside of my own eyelids, so i will try to address them all in one comment, there is still a point for my project to exist when Doom is so cheap, sure, Doom is cheap, but can you share it with your friends? can you upload it to your own website? can you take assets from it and use it in your own project? the answer to all three is no, not legally, you could with Freedoom, but it's not very similar to Doom at all,

FreeDoom behaves enough like Doom to be a libre alternative. What you are suggesting is essentially a carbon copy of the paid Doom, just looking just different enough to distinguish the two. That is muddy water territory from the get go.

17 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

most Doom map packs were created for the spirit of Doom in mind, and when Freedoom has a different spirit, the two tend not to work very well together,

But pretty much every Doom map pack can play in FreeDoom, just with a different looking set of monsters. That's the point of FreeDoom: Playing all the vanilla mappacks for free without relying on the official resources. It looks different, sure, but it is required to for reasons pointed out earlier.

 

What you want is an inbetween step with designs that resemble more closely Doom. That will etch closer to the arbitrary rules pointed out earlier, and as such it isn't encouraged to go there whatsoever in the best case, and plain illegal in the worst.

Work on your craft first and formost, and then present a hommage project such as this. :)