The DWmegawad Club plays: Hell Revealed 2

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP10: Base Blaze

7:20 | 100% Kills | 50% Items | 100% Secrets

I too was fooled briefly by the fakeout exit. The key collection had me like "Whaaaaat?!" but then I could see on my GZDoom automap that it was a normal teleporter instead of an exit one. On HTNR continuous, this map's barely worth talking about. I don't think I even saved through the entire thing, it felt that breezy. The only thing I feel like mentioning is the ridiculousness of the berserk/soulphere combo immediately after the fake exit--followed by a megasphere in the very next room. I was already maxed out from the last map, so I skipped the super/zerk, and then for some reason the fake exit gets blocked off, so I missed those two in my item count. :sadface:

[DavitW]

MAP07: Not That Simple II

I'm usually a fan of Dead Simple maps and this one was pretty good. The first part is pretty tough with very little covered compared to the classic Dead Simple, It's best to clear out a corner first and work your way from there but of course easier said than done. The second part is a more typical experience with plenty of slaughter to go around. Plenty of big traps here but they give you the BFG in this map to help with the tedium and the traps themselves never felt particularity annoying so a much better experience for me.

 

MAP08: Ballistics

Haphazard  is the best term to describe this map, besides the obvious shell boxes spread all over the floor the whole balance and monster placement in this map is just insane, Less is more is a thing but this one took a more is more approach and it just doesn't work. It's just camping in a corner and popping out every now and then to take out a few enemies before ducking back into safety, Do that for the entire map and you're done. There's an instant popup cyberdemon at the end of the map. Why? Fucking why? Please someone tell me why.

 

MAP09: The Siege II

This map has a basic premise, Hold out against the hordes of hell in a tiny fort while you're waiting for the exit teleport to lower. There's enough ammo in the fort to win World War II and 4 megaspheres placed up on pillars to avoid accidental pickups so that's good design right there. You know, I liked this map but playing with the BFG here i'm having a hard time imagining how I would handle this from a pistol start. It feels like luck can be a big part here but the 4 megaspheres definitely help balance things out.

[Snikle]

MAP10 - Base Blaze

This one was better than the last one, whew. I admit the beginning bewildered me a bit, going down into the central room and getting “A secret is revealed!” followed by grabbing all the keys then and there and opening up an “exit” instantly. Of course it was a ruse and the level got started for real at that point. Plenty more of the standard HKs in small spaces affairs, but also some larger areas with barons and imps and such. Imp mobs are always fun for me, god I love rocketing into them.

 

Also, is this cyberdemon you guys are mentioning a UV-only thing? Or was is it just that unmemorable? I played this map probably two weeks ago now, but still.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Snikle

[Maggle]

Map10 Base Blaze
100% Kills/Secrets
3 Deaths

 

Have you played Shackled? Then you played Base Blaze without knowing it. Except this time, it looks bland and monochrome, and it uses a Cyberdemon the same way Map03 used Barons. Right in a tiny ass room. What happened to the color? Because this wad looked pretty and colourful at the start, but now it looks like an early 360 game, where everything looks brown and gray and with splashes of green and blue if you're lucky. 

 

I would give props to the fake exit, but this wad's done it like 3 times already, and there's no chance anyone fell for it being so early. You want me to believe I kill an imp and a few chaingunners, push some buttons and I'm already done? Yeah, good. Ok.

 

There's still 22 maps to go. Ugh.

 

3/10.

[Roofi]

Map 10 : Base Blaze

 

 

I remember Base Blaze for two specific fights: the one with the revenants near the SSG requiring a certain technique to survive and the one with the cyberdemon that you can telefrag.

 

This level is honestly easy to forget but I like it.  There are still some quirks that have their charm, such as the three keys that can be obtained from the beginning. I really like the music that gives the impression of walking through a kind of haunted house with tech textures.

 

[Bauul]

Catching up on a few in a go:

 

Map 07: Not That Simple II

 

Well, it's another Dead Simple clone.  Except this one had the pleasure of breaking the first time I played it - the Arachnotron-triggered step rose twice for some reason, so I was unable to get on top of it.  Ended up having to restart the map.  I do credit the level for the initial arena: lowering the platforms gets you access to the goodies, but takes away your cover.  It's a nice play-off, and genuinely the first good idea this mapset has had.  Otherwise a relatively unremarkable map, except for the fact on HMP there are two yellow keys.  I'm guessing one was meant to be UV only and they forgot to turn it off in HMP.

 

Map 08: Ballistics

 

Ok, this is starting to heat up a little bit!  An interesting symmetrical map idea which doesn't outstay its welcome too much.  I quite liked how they put the Cyb closet close enough that you can hear it repeatedly through the map, so you knew it was going to pop up at some point.  I genuinely jumped when it finally teleported in.  I appreciate the absolute massive overflow of ammo, it was nice not to have to worry about running out at all.  The danger in the mapset still seems mostly to come from mean traps or simply an excess of monsters, but I'm starting to pay less attention to the rough edges and more to the combat.

 

Map 09: The Siege II

 

Hell of a hot start here!  Luckily I still had the plasma rifle equipped from the previous map so was able to easily punch a hole down one of the corridors.  Then it was just a case of unloading rocket after rocket down the corridor until everything was dead.  Then onto the main part of the map: a Confinement 256 style "trapped in a room with a load of surrounding enemies" map.  Beating this was mostly a case of just running in a circle taking potshots at the enemies until they were all dead.  Kind of high-tension, but not particularly difficult.  I ended up dying once due to accidentally rocketing a caco at point blank range, but got through my second try without needing three of the four megaspheres.  I've not played the original Hell Revealed, so I can only presume this is a take on that map.  Fine, but I've seen other maps do this concept with more nuance.

 

Map 10: Base Blaze

 

On to tech bases!  After Map 8 showing some genuine promise, and Map 9 being at least a focused gimmick, Map 10 unfortunately feels back to the somewhat aimless approach of the early levels.  Super simple detailing, bland texture choice, and encounters having teeth solely from throwing enemies at you in close proximity rather than actual interesting combat encounters.  Filling a small room with Revenants is a challenge, but it's hardly nuanced.  This feels strongly like a map designed for pistol starting, so I tried to only use the weapons available in the map.  Still, it was a lot of shotgunning imps and HKs in otherwise empty rooms.  The gimmick of "psyche, the map isn't really over!" kind of fell flat a bit because a) if it had been the exit, the map would have been 30 seconds long, and b), there was nothing really novel about the level afterwards, it was just... more of the level.  It wasn't so much a surprise trick as just a "huh, ok" moment.  Then the real exit arrives and it's just a sad teleporter in a brown room.  Pretty much another "huh, ok" moment.  I really hope the levels pick back up again, as I was in danger of actually having fun for a moment.

[galileo31dos01]

23 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Can't sleep

 

 

Map 10

 

Oh, right, I remembered this map. How to forget that imp at the start, who more often than not tanked a full SG shot like a champ. How to ignore the times I failed later on to the cyberdemon's ludicrous telefrag option, with second chances til eventually dying of randomness. Good times man... said no one ever.

 

Lol I'm looking at my video right now, the main hub was a secret?! That could have belonged to the telefrag part, although whether the author intended it to be of last resort remains unknown. I also gotta laugh at the key placement: get YK, open the door, steal the BK, use it on the other door, steal RK. I may sound like a broken record but, too silly to be offended. The fake exit idea though is old by the third or forth map it gets repeated.

After the silliness it becomes intense as fuck, or so it'll seem like when you don't expect such volume of revenants and hell knights in that tiny room. There's a twist, much like in older maps that intended to break the monotony of corridor-shooting and did what Yashar did here, you just can cheese the fight via "mechanic abuse", which in this case is door-camping in an unusual way. I saw in the UV max the player still knocked down the revs while they were spawning, thus leaving it a bit to luck and pain chance to speed things up, something I didn't even consider because it looked like a bad idea to me, but then the soulsphere went to waste, not my fault if you put it in the middle of the way.

 

So, the cyb. Yada yada everything else in between and after (okay, pinkies behind block lines, yikes), that cyb deserves a mention. It's so haphazardly dumped on your way like if the author once woke up and found a cow in the backyard which got him inspired. The combat is too awkward in any possible way: door camping something that healthy is boring, not to mention that ammo isn't plentiful, but fighting outside mmm it's not feasible and I tried it. So you opt to for the telefrag and find that requires RNG for it to stop moving at the right spot. If there was a secret BFG with 40 extra cells I'd possibly give it a pass, but meh. 

 

I made a first exit where instead I used the water pool to grind the cyb with SG and rockets. Because that stupidity left me dry on ammo, and frankly looked horrible to watch, I deleted it and made other subsequent attempts. All I cared was to get the telefrag right and call it a day. Pffff...

 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by galileo31dos01

[tchkb]

MAP09 "The Siege II" (Jonas Feragen)

Spoiler

A cute concept map. Not bad. Apparently the devs didn’t give much thought to HNTR/HMP in this one, because you usually kill the entire army one minute if not more before the pillar drops and have nothing to do in the meantime. If you’re very good, this can also apply to UV difficulty, so shortening the time to open exit by a minute or so would’ve been an improvement. On the other hand, different monster compositions and possibly a little extra health would’ve solved the problem of discrepancy between HNTR/HMP and UV.

Speaking of monsters – some irrelevant randoms aside, you’re dealing with a huge Rev horde + some support Cacodemons (and Pain Elementals on UV). The strategy is to run around close to the edge of your square from one cornar to another whenever a Rev missile approaches and keep lobbing rockets into one of the four openings whenever there’s none. Once fliers enter the square, whip out PG and try moving a lot, going for the four Megaspheres available whenever your health drops noticeably below 100. I find this setup a bit random to survive on UV pistol start, but it’s probably just because I suck.

For whatever reason it’s pretty easy to get stuck on the wall, depending on your exact position and direction on movement. I guess it’s because each wall is made of a lot of small squares, and Doom engines that are not ZDoom have some peculiar behaviors when it comes to wall corners. This requires making conscious effort to be as close to the wall as possible without actually touching it.

Personal rating: 3/5

 

MAP10 "Base Blaze" (Yashar Garibzadeh)

Spoiler

This isn’t as bad as maps 05/06, but still feels like them compared to the previous three ones. Starts with some nonthreatening mooks (and a single-use teleporter that can softlock the map if you throw the Chaingunner into it with a strong shotgun shot). Proceeds into two sequential fights against a HK each, which you can do either with your starting Shotgun for safety or Berserker Fist for speed.

One Mancubus and an SSG pickup later you’ve got an extremely claustrophobic fight against 3/6/9 Revs in a locked room. There are several techniques to make it more manageable, such as leaving a pair of HKs you summon right before the fight alive to (hopefully) help via infighting, staying close to their teleporting destination to delay their warpins, or running back to the entrance, which has a piece of corridor left open which, although short, is just barely wide enough to dodge a Rev rocket when done perfectly. Thankfully you get a Megasphere right before this fight and a Soulsphere right after it.

Back in the starting room you’ve got a dense group of Imps + a hell noble. Interestingly enough, there’s a small square of monster blocking lines right in front of the tunnel exit to let you actually drop down in vanilla engine – one of the more justified cases of using them in this WAD.

“Inconsequential” is a pretty good word to describe majority of the next area. You get Rocket Launcher for this, but everything you’re facing is completely nonthreatening but also awkward to kill. One exception – the infuriating survive-or-die coinflip that is the Cyberdemon on UV difficulty. You’re supposed to kill this guy by dropping down from the tower to the lake and telefragging him, which I guess is an okay idea for a map. But the way you’re supposed to get to this tower from right under his nose is definitely not. You could theoretically try retreating a little further to the side to let his random movement occasionally get away from the door, but it’s very random and by the time you make the run for it he can just be right back at the door. And let’s not forget that the telefrag itself is pretty hard to pull off as well.

The ending section presents an opportunity to go ham with Rocket Launcher against a bunch of Imps, Shotgunners and hell nobles, but that’s it. I wish it had a better variety of midlevel monsters.

Personal rating: -2/5

 

[gaspe]

MAP10: I liked how the map can sort of subvert your expectations, giving the 3 keys in the beginning and the fake exit that take you to the main parts of the level though a look at monster count is enough to break the magic and see that after getting the YK we are not done yet. I also liked how the initial techbase is detailed and the texture combo that in addition to the brown/green the light grey (especially that flat that usually isn't used too much) gives a personal touch. The outer wings of the levels aren't particularly interesting, the left part is better. It didn't occur to me that you can telefrag the cybie, I just skipped it altogether and trying to kill it by camping at the doorway wouldn't be fun at all.

Edited April 10, 2020 by gaspe

[plums]

Some quick catch-up:

 

MAP04 was pretty cool, it was hard but in a very small-scale way that I enjoyed. Things like that are usually easy enough to power through when it's just moment-to-moment difficulty instead of a sustained wave of enemies. As always I completely missed the AV jump until I'd killed the AVs already, I think anything less than a sign saying "you have to arch-vile jump to get here" in big letters isn't enough to clue me beforehand.

 

MAP05 was decent, some better visuals but not too exceptional gameplay. Start is a bit of a dice-roll but beyond that you can take it pretty leisurely.

 

MAP06 is a nice change of scenery although the visual detail here is a bit lacking. Nothing more fun-strating than hearing a bunch of arch-viles resurrect a group of things you just killed while you can't do anything about it. The cyberdemon was a bit unnecessary though.

 

MAP07 was a good time with a lot of ways to approach it. Cyberdemon: friend or foe? (@gaspe: any Dead Simple clone that gives you a BFG has a good chance to win people over.)

 

edit: @Bauul MAP07 has two yellow keys on all skills, one is a secret-of-sorts that gives you a shorter way to end the map without letting one of the monster closets loose. Scratch that, one yellow key is behind a yellow key door. I have no idea what that's about then.

 

@rehelekretep called MAP04 "a nasty little puzzle box" and I think that sums up a lot of these maps so far. Rather enjoying the set, we'll see if that holds when the maps presumably scale up in size. Still I already like this more than HR1.

Edited April 10, 2020 by plums

[riderr3]

MAP09
It seems that most of the time I spent standing and waiting until this dull column descended.

The level consists of two parts, the first is a cruciform corridor filled to capacity with pinkies and imps. And the second is essentially an arena where we have to run into circles and shoot from the monsters behind the cage, not forgetting about a few cacodemons who still managed to overcome the fence.

MAP10
It was obvious that the "exit" portal just turned out to be fake.

I can say that I liked the progress itself, how the areas revealing. In terms of gameplay, here again is a bit cramped in some places, by some miracle I managed to sneak from the ventilation revenants to a safer place. Once again, we see HKs/Barons popping up in tight spots, over time this becomes obvious and predictable.

Edited April 10, 2020 by riderr3

[Andromeda]

MAP10: Base Blaze (Hell Revealed II)

PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4, HNTR-PS, no saves, 100% everything

 

I like the name, but was a bit disappointed to see no Commander Keens anywhere :/ This level features the most obvious fake exit I've seen and some weird progression, I feel it'd be clearer if you got the yellow key first and the others were placed at the end of the two main areas you have to visit in order to get to the exit. Other than that I can't really complain. It has a look based on E1/E2 of Doom which has been done to death but remains pleasing to the eye in my opinion.

 

The combat is fairly sedate, with the toughest encounter being the hell knight/revenant wave in a very cramped room. I played it safe and triggered the hell knights first, then I tackled the revenants which allowed me to escape unscathed but having to waste the unavoidable supercharge that was waiting for me. I didn't really need that item though since I didn't drop below 150 health in the rest of the level. I gave it a go on UV to check the Cyberdemon "fight" and I enjoyed it, it does require precise timing to telefrag the boss without much risk but it's a cool moment. All in all, a solid effort.

 

Levels in order of preference:

Spoiler

MAP07: Not That Simple II

MAP10: Base Blaze

MAP04: Reluctant Pain

MAP03: Shackled

MAP05: Insatanity

MAP01: IGNITION!

MAP02: High Voltage

MAP06: Revival

MAP09: The Siege II

MAP08: Ballistics

Edited April 10, 2020 by Andromeda

[plums]

MAP08: Tough to figure out how to survive the start on UV PS. Once I did (get the plasma guns, go to the south room with the SSG, kill the imps) it wasn't too bad, but it took a very high number of deaths to get there, since I started by trying to get the other SSG in the baron/rev/manc room instead. I liked the "tons of ammo" gimmick, shells being everywhere made it pretty clear to me that it was fine to just hold down fire for the whole map.

 

MAP09: Count me in the "neat concept, bad execution" camp. Most peculiarly, the first HR was heavily geared towards speedrunning, and so the inclusion of a map where you have so little control over when it ends feels really out of place even if you're not trying for any kind of speed.

Edited April 10, 2020 by plums

[Arbys550]

Map09

I loved the beginning! That's the kind of thing I want to see more of. Didn't really like the second part. Flying monsters make it a pain in the ass.

 

Map10

Ugly and boring. Nothing was fun. Probably the worst cyberdemon placement of all time. Threatening, yes, but an absolute pain in the ass (in a bad way) to kill and slows down the pacing of the map. One of the worst maps so far in my opinion. Also the fake exit is one of the most overused tropes in doom history and really adds nothing at all to the map.

 

Ranking:

Spoiler

Map07: Not That Simple II

Map02: High Voltage

Map03: Shackled

Map09: The Siege II

Map01: Ignition

Map06: Revival

Map10: Base Blaze

Map08: Ballistics

Map05: Insatanity

Map04: Reluctant Pain

 

[DuckReconMajor]

MAP10: Base Blaze

glBoom + 2.5.1.7um , skill 2 pistol start, no saves

 

As mentioned, the fake exit was very obvious, but mostly I was wondering how the author will add complexity to the rest of the map, given that the key mechanic was already used up.

In the end I did like the way the map progressed, with its traps and bars, but it wasn't my favorite.

 

I think a couple folks mentioned the Berserk/Soulsphere pickup on skill 2, my annoyance was that the way they're picked up (or at least the way I did) left me with 160% health instead of 200%. Megasphere came soon after so it wasn't too big a deal.

 

Watching @galileo31dos01 UV playthrough it's clear that the UV version has much more color to the fights. I'll have to try this map on UV at some point.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Endless]

HI, I lil bit late to the party, but here I go. I played all the previous ones up to the 10th, and so far, it is quite decent, but I'm not a big fan of the layouts and slaughter areas, still, quite fun.

 

MAP09: The Siege

Using LZDoom with Brutal Doom mod. UV.

 

Fun map with two main areas. The first one you are sorrounded from all sides and some Imps and pinkies got at you, quite fun and fast, but the second part was a pain in the ass. Hopefully you love to strafe run in circles, cause thats what you are going to do in the last part. It still is fun, until you realize that you survived but still have to wait about 2 o 3 more minutes before the pillar with the exit comes down, that was kinda lame.

 

MAP10: Base Blaze

Using LZDoom with Brutal Doom mod. UV.

 

Reminds me of that Doom 2 map ''tricks and traps.'' Fun and quite different, but not as good for me. Jus the layout and texturing feels so dull. This is indeed, designed for more slaughter-ish combat in mind, leaving behid the overrall map design.

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP11: Raw Hatred (HNTR/continuous)

9:19 | 100% Kills | 83% Items | 0% Secrets

The challenges come early and often in this map. Thankfully I'm carrying over all my guns! The early revvies came as a surprise--a pleasant one, after how most of the WAD has gone. Hilariously, the spiders in the yard outside were unable to shoot me through the windows, making them sitting ducks. The zerk and soulsphere together in that room seemed kind of silly, so I skipped them for the nonce. I then ventured out, saw the boxes and boxes of bullets, and decided to switch to my chaingun, which was a big mistake when the vile popped up! (Any troubles I had with this map came from me being caught with the wrong weapon equipped.) I took a big hit, but still took down Archie, then dodged PEs and souls until I was back inside, where I topped off with the soulsphere and then spent the rest of my bullets casually taking out the flyers through the windows. That was honestly the most memorable bit of the map for me, though the rest was good fun, including facing down a Mastermind with my SSG (teleporting back upstairs as necessary), cleaning up a horde of nobles with a rocket spam party. And also facing down HNTR's first cyberdemon, easily managed with the provided invul and a fully-loaded (and afterward, fully-replenished) BFG. The only time I actually died was in the exit room, when I got cocky, and got blasted by the first archvile; on a reload, I entered with my BFG at the ready, and took care of him and his friends right quick. Then I had to wait far too long for the exit to lower, and took care of him before grabbing the provided megasphere before leaving. A fun map that, at least for how I'm playing, managed to couple nonstop action with very little danger for a player with a modicum of skill; it felt a lot harder than it ever was. On the other hand, much like many of the maps thus far, it felt almost carelessly made in parts: the exit, for example, where one could easily ignore the vile and just step on the teleporter. Or this door in the screenshot below. Also (again) not a fan of being locked into the exit room, which meant missing out on searching for the secret I missed, or recovering the zerk pack from the start area that I had passed up.

[Horus]

MAP11 - “Raw Hatred” by Mike Watson, Eric James Roberts

 

If the last map had obnoxious cyberdemon placement, this map has obnoxious spider mastermind placement…if not quite as bad, at least not upon replay when you can hold off getting the megasphere until you’re ready to face her.

 

Anyway, just like the last couple of maps we are back in congestion-ville, and again the map isn’t exactly exciting on the detail side.

 

Also strange is the arachnotron and window placement as Salt-Man Z was saying…you can just shoot them through the window but they can’t shoot you….guess on pistol start you don’t really have the weaponry to be able to do that.

 

The map starts to get a little Hell Revealed-like towards the end with the big hell noble + arch vile battle and the mini-battle at the end.

[Bauul]

Map 11: Raw Hatred

 

Bland tech base mixed with bland earth-map.  Yay!  Another super simplistic map that is essentially a series of slightly obnoxious encounters in dull, uninspired rooms.  Playing this continuous made it much easier, as the BFG makes mincemeat of the Spidermind and the AVs.  The Cybie having an Invul sphere (maybe a HMP crutch?) just made the whole thing slightly pointless.  What's more, the Invul lasted long enough to blaze through the whole next room without any difficulty at all.  A dozen barons and two AVs with no real cover should be challenge, but when you can't take damage it slightly loses the impact.  The excess of soul spheres and megapsheres diluted the challenge too - it became a case of just tanking the hits while dishing out the DPS.

 

The map seemed to have a few strange technical issues.  I managed to pick up the red key without triggering the Revenant trap, and after the aforementioned Baron + AV trap in the courtyard type room, taking the teleporter back to the upper level didn't seem to do anything.  I ran around the whole map unsure where I was meant to go.  Took the teleporter two more times, and on the third time it lowered a wall in front of the destination.  I'm actually going to crack the map open in UDB because I'm so confused by what was meant to happen.

 

Ok, so there Floor Lower To Lowest Floor linedef is too close to the teleporter, and it's perfectly possible to trigger the teleporter without triggering the line.  I was also surprised to see the invul sphere was on all difficulties - a very strange choice.  I am starting to get a strong feeling that these maps were not particularly tested much before release.  Maybe the author ran through it once or twice and went "eh, it'll do" and there was effort to fix bugs or add nuance to the combat encounters.  I continue to be generally disappointed.

[Maggle]

Map11 Raw Hatred
85% Kills 0% Secrets
0 Deaths

 

A techbase map with a few surprises, though none all that dangerous or interesting. This one is okay, but nothing to write home about. I actually really like the track that plays here, as it's oppressive and ominous. It starts with a courtyard with Arachnotrons and a key on the corner. Picking it spawns PEs in the well, which could be a problem if you rushed to the key, but on their own pose little threat. 

 

The spiderdemon encounter is a little mean, but I made short work of her. The revenant ambush here lacks teeth, as I can just fuck off after grabbing the key, and they never follow. Then there's the classic "multiple Barons in a hallway" trick, followed by a Cyberdemon in a tiny room with an invuln. I fail to see the point, but maybe it's a little cathartic to be the asshole popping out of nowhere and killing something instantly, for once? I guess.

 

The slaughter-ish encounter at the end seems shoe-horned, because it's effectively a box that's right at the end and doesn't really fit in. On the other hand, it breaks up the monotony a little bit by offering a little genuine challenge that I can't cheese. The exit hallway is an interesting encounter, but one that, again, loses a bit of its teeth since you can run passed the AVs in the exit lift.

 

All in all, kinda easy and unmemorable like InSATANity was. 5/10.

[Roofi]

Map 11 : Raw Hatred

 

 

This level is known for its long straight corridors and its rather peculiar placement of the bosses. The level is flat and aesthetically very simple. On the other hand, I like it because it fits well with the atmospheric music. In a way, this wad reminds me a bit of "The Talosian Incident" on some levels but with extra difficulty.

 

I like this level, quite difficult towards the end.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Roofi

[gaspe]

MAP11: I like Roofi recall of The Talosian Incident but I think that the minimalism here falls more on the bad side as the place is a generic system of corridors. Lighting work is pretty much non-existent. The highlight would be the RK where if you can sneak past the mastermind you can grab the key and release the revs to have them infight with the boss. Anyway, aren't you able the get stuck in the well if you try to get there with an av jump?

[galileo31dos01]

Map 11

 

Mmm, what a weird map. It seems like it wants to channel old Hell Revealed crossing the mean spirited vibe and the result is a mixed bag of boredom, like the arachnotrons yard or the baron corridor, outside of a couple interesting points that play like "puzzle" bits, those are the invul charge on one side and the SMM+revs on the other. 

 

The megasphere at the start is kind of a false alert because you don't really need to be overpowered until halfway through (although it's still nice to look at max health on the status bar :P). Felt sad to see yet another case of bad arachnotron fights, if that can be called a "fight" to begin with. The addition of pain elementals who take their time to spawn speaks for a tedious scenario with just CG and SSG, so I preferred to ignore them and get stronger weaponry. They're not tracking anyone around the map, like if I cared though. In a UV-max I watched on Youtube the player (Nevanos) skipped past the trons twice, to snag the YK and get back inside. The acrobatic moves that some people pull out in their speedruns is beyond me lol.

 

It's getting absurdly late here oof. The spiderdemon is the first legit "oh shit" moment of the map (well, actually the archvile in the silver corridor happens first, and the potential of ghost pinkies), but an intrepid player can turn the tables on her pretty fast. Again, you can just summon things and yeet out of there, but I didn't want to risk infinite height if the revenants won, which sometimes happened. 

That invulnerability has its place on UV for a good reason: get it and immediately rush outside (but not too fast, you want to open the invisible secret BFG alcove), spam roadblocks with whatever, drop off, release the bulls horde and focus on the two archviles behind. That's the reason, I think. Otherwise it would be frustrating to deal with all that shit, including cyb rockets when the door's slowly opening, without an invul-fed race and the BFG - which gives the right amount of time to access the archviles outside but not too much to get lazy on the cyb for example. That being said, invul sphere setups like this one are quite attractive imo, of course done a bit less crude, because speed is key to maximize its power, you don't have all day to select primary targets and kill everything in time. Speed of Doom has a couple good invul fights with archviles. BTSX has map 19. Disparate Realities map 08 I think. I find that varied geometry is important so it doesn't turn into either a grind or circlestrafe boredom, once the effect's gone.

 

Anyways, oh the final part definitely requires a good BFG shot on that other archvile with nowhere to hide from. Went kind of ugly in the video, the vile should have died to the second shot if it weren't for the fucking delayed tracers. Yeah, the other day I had that rare bullshit happening again, a vile flinched to the BFG ball and immediately run away eluding tracers.

 

I'm tired.

 

@Horus the arachnotrons can definitely shoot through the window. I'm sure I saw plasma coming inside in at least two different attempts, though how that happened is tricky to figure. I guess one was standing on a step while the others weren't intercepting, but not sure. 

 

 

[AFallingObject]

MAP11: Raw Hatred (UV Continuous)

At first, I was bored to death.  Killing the arachnotrons with the chaingun is hardly a challenge.  I fried the vile with the RL since I had it early from continuous play.  The PEs were not a threat.  It was just tedious mop up.  Then I got the RK and a V-sphere (which is not a lower difficulty crutch).  The following section got me twice.  My winning solution was to bumrush everything so I could fry the archviles in the back of the baron closet with my excess plasma.  Fighting them without invulnerability got me killed in what was the first interesting encounter I've seen in this WAD in a few maps.  Good job cyb (at least on the second half)!

100% Kills

0% Secrets (I'm shocked an AV jump after the SSG doesn't net the one secret.  I tried.)

 

EDIT: I looked up after I posted.  The arachnotrons were neutered in my game too.  At least it was somewhat fair, as I couldn't shoot out the window any better than they could shoot in.

Edited April 11, 2020 by AFallingObject

[joe-ilya]

MAP11

I like the subtle nod to TNT MAP01 with the berserk on the blue pedestal at the start, prompting you to punch a couple of revs.

Like MAP10, it has tiny areas to fight in that don't go well when filled with arachnotrons, mancs, PEs, and barons that you have to fight with SSG and chaingun, I wish the mapset would stop trying so hard to be hard, it does not know how to be hard most of the time, it just puts dozens of mid-tiers and boss-tiers and counts it as a legit challenge, the first Hell Revealed did this design better in its first 10 maps by placing low-tier enemies instead, to blast through quickly.

The secret BFG is hidden in a random wall like in Wolfenstein 3D, hiding secrets like this 10 years later after Wolf3D is bad.

I did enjoy the invul rush, I imagine it would be much more stressful without a BFG.

The exit area is a good example of where you should not place AVs, especially 3 of them, it's a good thing I had the BFG, otherwise I'd have no idea how to beat that area, seems like another invul should be there.

1/5

[DuckReconMajor]

MAP11: Raw Hatred

glBoom + 2.5.1.7um , skill 2 pistol start, no saves

 

I really liked the difficulty balance of this map on Skill 2, barely made it out alive in some parts, but if it gets much harder than this I'll probably have to take @Maggle's suggestion and drop to Skill 1 for some maps.

 

I know the Mastermind isn't going to garner many fans but I liked the tension of having to run around it and almost dying.

The courtyard fight with the cyberdemon and barons was very intense and where I came closest to dying.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Andromeda]

MAP11: Raw Hatred (Hell Revealed II)

PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4, HNTR-PS, no saves, 100% everything

 

This level looks harder than it is. I did die once (to the Spiderdemon) and had to replay it twice because on the second attempt I thought the level broke after taking the teleporter to the final area, but most battles are easily cheesable and if you take it slow you'll barely lose health. I limited myself to use the SSG only (apart from the first few enemies) to add a bit of challenge and still managed to beat it comfortably. The Spiderdemon encounter and the arch-vile corridor are probably the easiest to cheese, the former can be solved in three different ways even.

 

The Cyberdemon fight would be extremely boring without an invulnerability (if you wanted to play it safe that is) so I approve of its usage in this scenario. The hardest moments appear after, a wall of nobles backed by an arch-vile which is what makes it troublesome, not to mention the final fight that has not been watered down on HNTR compared to UV (apart from an extra arch-vile on the exit teleporter but at that point you can just exit) and requires fancy footwork and quick thinking to tackle it successfully with any weapon other than the BFG9000.

 

Not as impressed by the looks of this level, very bland. It also has some bugs, like the arachnotrons not being able to attack you from the outside (which would make the revenant punch out much more interesting) and it's very easy to softlock yourself if you arch-vile jump into the pit in the yellow key area - would be a neat idea for a secret, but alas. In the end I quite liked this level, not as much as some of the previous but it's a fine one.

 

Levels in order of preference:

Spoiler

MAP07: Not That Simple II

MAP10: Base Blaze

MAP04: Reluctant Pain

MAP03: Shackled

MAP05: Insatanity

MAP01: IGNITION!

MAP11: Raw Hatred

MAP02: High Voltage

MAP06: Revival

MAP09: The Siege II

MAP08: Ballistics

Edited April 11, 2020 by Andromeda

[Snikle]

MAP11 - Raw Hatred

This was a weird one. Ah hell, they all have been, but this one felt even weirder than some of the others. The SMM in that bottom room was pretty bad, just teleport back up as soon as it turns to shoot at you, then keep going down and up until it’s dead. The whole level up to that point was pretty uninteresting, but then came the cyberdemon part. Here’s where I started to enjoy myself a bit more. Invuln sphere lasted me until I got to the bottom of the area where the switch opened the wall. Then everything came out and it was a fun romp of infighting between the cyber, nobles, and the AVs, who I had hoped would keep themselves distracted until I could kill them. But then… I’m teleported to another area with no way to get back, guess I walked over a linedef somewhere. I can hear the battle going on behind me, the cyberdemon clomping around, the surviving AV resurrecting shit, and I don’t get to be a part of it. That was the part of the level I liked, why whisk me out so unexpectedly? The rest of it was a breeze after this, don’t really remember it much.

[joe-ilya]

MAP12

I don't understand what the starting area is supposed to accomplish, but whatever, it was the most fun part somehow anyways in this map, not saying much, because it's just bland.

The rest of it is just hiding behind corners, as hundreds of enemies, including AVs start violently protesting outside as I watch them kill each other, and then use the rocket launcher to safely kill the remainder by shooting at walls, this repeats another time, and then I can exit.

Wishlist : A couple of invuls, I don't like cowering up on the ledge, but I have no choice, as there are several AVs in the open, with no cover.

This has been the blandest map so far.

0/5

[tchkb]

MAP11 "Raw Hatred" (Mike Watson / Eric James Roberts)

Spoiler

Another mediocre map. The only thing I like about it is the Berserk punch-out vs 2 Revs right at the start. I guess the Mastermind fight is okay with its infighting opportunity, but that’s it. Everything else ranges from meh to bad level design. The worst offenders are the thin corridor with Pinkies and an Arch-Vile waiting in a small cutout in the hall (the only way to guarantee avoiding taking damage is running all the way back to the start to slowly wear him down through the window) and the questionable Invulnerability + Cyberdemon + secret BFG setup that, when played quickly, can also let you trivialize the hardest fight of the map that’s a little up ahead.

Personal rating: 2/5

 

MAP12 "Anti Static" (Michael Reid)

Spoiler

There are definitely things to be said about how ugly the layout is, but what’s more important is its impact on the gameplay. Doing the two big fights is just barely possible to do the straightforward “just kill them all ASAP” way on HMP with smart use of the extremely limited cover you’re given (mostly the middle green building). But it’s practically impossible on UV – there are just way too many Arch-Viles. The only way to max the map on UV is cheesing it. The simplest way to do it is getting to the “exit” platform with key-locked buttons and dumping your entire rocket supply on the nearby wall where all the monsters will swarm to – the infinite height of explosions in vanilla engine will gradually wear the army down. Once your rockets run out, get Blue Key, Megasphere and teleport to activate the final fight, run around the area to start infighting among boss monsters and refill your rockets, return and repeat the entire process. In ZDoom, where rocket explosions are not infinitely high, you can either lob them 2-3 at a time from around the corner from the same platform or execute the next best cheese strat, which is staying in the brown building with Mastermind (have I already mentioned how obtuse getting rid of him is?) and killing everything that tries to enter, hopefully not getting overwhelmed in the process (this also works in vanilla engine, but then you have to contend with ghost monsters from corpses crushed by the door).

Unlike the other maps, this is a clear case where the mapper had good ideas for fights (except for too many AVs), but the architecture is just awful from both aesthetic and gameplay standpoints.

Personal rating: +2/5

 

Completely unrelated to the map itself, but “Sweaty Mancubus Armpits” is the best MIDI name ever.