Torm's apology for the Doom community

[Cacodemon345]

https://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/home/archiv/17-site-news/2239-statement-regarding-the-plagiarism-accusation

Hopefully this gets matters sorted out in here. After finding no reply of Torm in here, I decided to send him a PM at ZDF myself.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Cacodemon345

[Redneckerz]

Can attest to the above after recieving a PM from Torm just a few minutes ago. I was about to ask for a heads up on his situation.

For what it is worth, it felt sincere, and similarly in spirit to the link provided above.

Hopefully the above message sets some clarity.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Redneckerz

[Senor500]

It does feel sincere, I can believe it, but man am I worried this fire won't be put out.

[Tristan]

3 minutes ago, Senor500 said:

It does feel sincere, I can believe it, but man am I worried this fire won't be put out.

Inevitably, there's going to be a lasting effect here. His work is obviously going to be under more scrutiny going forward, but while we could spend time picking apart his statement, I think he's said his piece and now it's on him to make sure this doesn't happen again. The discussions don't need to go any further now.

[Redneckerz]

Since ZDF was mentioned by the OP - Torm just released a thread on ZDF regarding this aswell.

Nothing new, but for those who want to, its linked.

[Senor500]

All I hope is that this doesn't repeat and we can all forgive and forget.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

Good on Torm for taking responsibility and apologizing. Tomorrow is always a new day for positive change. 

[MTrop]

For what it's worth, I accept @Tormentor667's apology and his acknowledgement of the origins of the Blade of Agony website, but the best apology, to me, and perhaps to others (though I don't claim to speak for them, as their accusations are more severe) is to practice self-vigilance and ensure that it doesn't happen again.

 

It may be easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission, but the better man asks permission when reasonably unsure.

 

I forgive, but I can assure you - we (and I) will still be watching.

[Terrcraft]

It seems kinda sus because it reminded me of this

4:44-6:10

 

[Tarnsman]

I appreciate that Tormentor took the time to respond and admit to it more or less.

 

There are some aspects of his apology that I take issue with and question, but provided that Torm has come clean about the extent of the issue and we do not discover anything else moving forward that fits within this pattern, I don't think we need to litigate the specifics or get angry over it.

[doomsucksass]

Not to cause any further drama, but i thought this was somewhat related: i remember a news post on Realm667 a few years ago about the site's anniversary that used a edited picture by a artist i recognized, i later asked the artist about it and they said they didn't give them any permission to use it and that they thought it was a "dick move".

Edited April 6, 2020 by doomsucksass

[whirledtsar]

This is why it's better to try to settle disputes personally/privately at first rather than making "call out" posts online and just waiting for the person to respond.

[CasualScrub]

I really don't know a better way he could have gone about this, honestly. Hoping that the community can put this behind us and that Torm tries to better himself from letting this happen again.

[Doomkid]

Regardless of what he did it took sack to own up and message many people involved. I definitely give the man kudos for that. I’ve seen plenty of others over the years in similarly bad situations who just disappeared never to return, with no apology or anything. Torm didn’t take that route and i’m glad he didn’t.

[taufan99]

Now that he has apologized, I think about the other related stuff...

[noisebloom]

Though I don't know many of the people directly involved in the dispute very well (the accused or the plagiarized), I do appreciate that the accused did respond and ostensibly would be more careful in the future.

 

However, objectively, this does disquiet me: 

 

1 hour ago, Dynamo said:

As nice as that would be, I'm afraid that some of Tormentor's subsequent responses cast doubts over the honesty of his apology. For instance, he explained that he deliberately chose not credit Laz Rojas for taking half his map without permission solely so that nobody would predict his easter egg map, and further, threatened to shut down the entirety of Realm667 in case the community refuses to forgive him. Whilst these statements were posted on a different forum board, since the Realm667 website is an important resource used by many in the community at large, irrespective of forum board preference, I feel like such an announcement should be publicly known. I can only hope that the have indeed weathered the storm as said and hoped by most but when the simplest follow-up to the apology results in even more controversial and false claims being made (such as claiming that he only took a snippet of Rheingold, when in reality as Bouncy and Dragonfly showed it's almost the entirety of the map that was taken), I think lingering doubts and suspicions will persist until hopefully these, too, are cleared up once and for all to everyone's satisfaction.

 

 

I assume, as with any dispute, people are going to be divided and have wounds/biases that will take time to heal or lift (if they do). I myself opted to add some levity to the other thread and realize now that it was not constructive and distracting, so I'll refrain from any more input unless I think it's valuable (I do think the quote above is, unless there's a contextual misunderstanding here).

[Tormentor667]

Aside from the main issue that I have already written my statement for (and I still do stand behind that) - what I don't get is: How can an easter-egg for the community, that was implemented in Torment & Torture around 2008 as an honoring homage to Laz Rojas' works in the past, be laid out as plagiarism 12 years later? Even after considering why it was implemented and why it was not credited? (for the last, remember that WolfenDoom Rheingold was a well-known mod in the 90's and people recognized the place in a second if they have played Rheingold).

 

If I disappointed with that, and if I hurt someone with that - I am sorry, I really am, but it was not even a single second that I "plagiated" or "ripped" material from Rheingold for my own pride, it was to honor Laz Rojas' series of mods because I really loved them, and it's the reason why Blade of Agony has started 5 years ago. Just wanted to state this, as it hasn't been part of my statement regarding Skulldash at the Realm.

 

Beyond, I want to say something else:

 

I am not going to shut down the Realm667, and I am not threatening people to do it. But remember: I am doing this from my free time, it's a dedication, it's a passion, I don't earn money with the place. All I want to do is keep the game we all love alive, to keep the modding community alive. If people start to become hostile and unforgiving for the mistakes I made, I might loose this passion - and I am not gonna continue giving a hand for people with an negative attitude towards me. Nash has put it in a nutshell: Why should I continue cooking for you if you continue to spit saliva into my face every time I fed you?

 

Let's move on now, spend our time in being creative and living our passion. Best wishes to all of you!

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Since everything has been resolved (for now at least), I think this thread should also be locked as well to prevent any further unrelated dramas.

[taufan99]

2 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Since everything has been resolved (for now at least), I think this thread should also be locked as well to prevent any further unrelated dramas.

Definitely seconded this.

[BigBoy91]

Seemed sincere and legitimate to me. *shrug*

[Untamed64]

51 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Since everything has been resolved (for now at least), I think this thread should also be locked as well to prevent any further unrelated dramas.

Agreed.