Thoughts on DOOM Eternal's lore?

[Katey Kat]

personally, i really like how they decided to expand on DOOM's story and the Slayer's character, and them connecting the lore of modern DOOM to classic DOOM was pretty cool. but i know some people don't really like that. what do you guys think?

[AtimZarr1]

I wanted to wait until the DLCs before I judge, but here are my thoughts anyways:

 

"Lord Sash, the stalwart banner-sergeant, was found with his war standard pierced through the throat of a great beast, his body surrounded by the corpses of enemies. Roan the Mighty, the light faded from his eyes, had eviscerated such a multitude that their entrails clung to the black rocks like vines. Gor, relentless until the end, had broken his blade on the backs of his foes, and by the time he fell he had slain another two-score with his hands alone... If the Slayer does live, let him carry our vengeance forward. If he persists, let him wreak violence on those who have wronged us. May the blood of his sword never dry, may his war never end until the guilty have been punished, and may this evil never again spread its shadow over another world."

 

This passage, and the Sentinel lore in general, are my favorite parts of the story. It's the thing that's closest to the Slayer Testaments of 2016. It does a really great job in setting the player up to feel like a demon-killing machine. What I don't like are the "explanatory" bits they've introduced. Explaining how Maykrs work, explaining how demons are "made", explaining how this and that works, etc. It feels like unwrapping the magic a bit. I don't mind if they explain how weapons function or how a certain facility operates but giving hard explanations to things that seem supernatural (Maykrs, Demons, etc.) is a bit much. I figured the Seraphim directly blessed Doomguy as mentioned in the Slayer Testaments, but not exactly, Eternal shows that it was through the Divinity Machine. The Seraphim just operated it, at least it seems that way. I personally would prefer the more "mythical" approach to the storytelling, like with the above Sentinel lore or with the 2016 Slayer Testaments. Granted, 2016 also explained how demons "worked", i.e. how Mancubi grew their arm cannons.

 

The mysteries in Eternal seem more "set up" than 2016's. In 2016, people speculated on who the Betrayer was, who the unnamed wretch was, was the Betrayer's son actually the Icon of Sin, is Doom Slayer the hero from the Classic games, and so on. The Slayer Testaments, and game lore itself, were written vague enough so people could guess on what they think the answers were. In Eternal, the Seraphim is Hayden, the question is how. Or VEGA is the Father, the question is how. Or Slayer has the Fortress of Doom, the question is how. The only mysterious thing to really talk about is the voice that shouts "nooooo!" after the Khan Maykr's death. And maybe who is the Dark Lord of Hell.

 

I also don't like Dr. Richardon's log entries in the ARC Complex. It's one thing to have a demon lord narrate the Slayer's badassery in striking fear into the armies of Hell. It's another thing when Dr. Richardson has lines like "Maybe... he is a god" or "It is in DOOM that I have faith", also featuring over-the-top heavy breathing. It's a bit uncomfortable to listen to. Some of the lines I like though "... and he carries a steel-barreled sword of vengeance", but even then I feel the launch trailer had a better execution of those lines.

 

I thought I wouldn't like Doomguy and Doom Slayer being the same person (I figured it wouldn't add anything to the story), but I actually like the idea of him being crippled with rage and at the breaking point after the events of Doom 64 but now his journey has led him to become a silent and badass demon killer. A transformation from his "lowest" point to the current Slayer seems really cool. That being said, hearing Doomguy speak in a main-series Doom game was certainly surprising, I'm not sure if I like the voice itself, but really it's the "huge guts" and "rip and tear" lines that stick out most. I figured "rip and tear" was just something that the Sentinels said to him upon seeing his ultra-violent demon-killing crusades, not an actual line they adopted from him. I liked when the Khan Maykr enticed the Slayer by offering to return "what the demons took" so long ago, because it's a subtle nod to Daisy without flat out saying Daisy or making references to bunnies. Alternatively, a series newcomer could choose to believe it means something else. I personally like when the references are subtle or are sourced subtly, otherwise the equivalent is like hearing a variation of "I'll be back" in a Terminator movie. The difference between the Sentinels encouraging the Slayer to rip and tear until it was done and having the Slayer literally say rip and tear while fighting enemies.

 

I really like the world-building they put into the environments. I wanted to explore the rest of Sentinel Prime, its distant cities and towers. Deag Grav's Codex entry mentioning using the arena to entertain the "fallen citizens of Sentinel Prime" was interesting because it implied some Argenta still live there in some capacity. Are they zombified by now? Or are they indoctrinated Essence-drinkers? Seeing the distant towers on the Sentinel Prime only added to that interest. It was a similar thing with Nekroval, the "City of the Damned", even though we just explored the one tower. The environments looked so great in that level too that I wanted to explore more of this hellish city. Or seeing the mysterious body in the pool on Urdak. The worlds themselves are packed with detail that I enjoy thinking about, much more than 2016's environments.

[whatup876]

Is it good for what it is and there's some stuff i can see fit in old Doom.

But it also goes a bit creative to make it feel too unique for something that some would refer to as "the Doom universe".

 

I feel like Doom could be compared to the Planet of the Apes movies, in the sense that the reboot movie era is good, but it's also more of its own thing than a "return to the roots", specially compared to the older POTA movies. (not sure how Doom 3 would compare to the Tim Burton movie because D3 can still be good in some ways and doesn't have its equivalent of Ape-raham Lincoln)

And most of its ups and downs depending on how it compares to the original can always be up to debate.

 

Doom also at times feels like most comic book superheroes or Twisted Metal where you wonder whether or not things would make more sense with self centered stories instead of a larger universe connecting all the dots.

Because there's always going to be retcons and inconsistencies. (specially when there's more parts of classic Doom lore that could matter besides Doomguy and Daisy)

 

I feel like a good reason for lore is how it could impact gameplay, level design, art direction, sounds etc and maybe even some story bits or cool looking cutscenes.

But at the same time, there's the cases of "what if it becomes an obstacle for ideas that could fit Doom" or how it affects Doom's DNA.

 

I also don't like how Hell seems less independent and weaker at times, from the lack of the abstract nature found in Inferno and such, to how they no longer develop their own demons.

That and how the main antagonists aren't Hell itself and at best, someone manipulated or teaming up with Hell.

For a series about fighting Hell, it'd make sense if the IOS or some other royal demon would appear throughout the campaign like Hexen's Korax just to taunt and mock the player until the final boss.

[Mattatsu]

14 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

That being said, hearing Doomguy speak in a main-series Doom game was certainly surprising, I'm not sure if I like the voice itself, but really it's the "huge guts" and "rip and tear" lines that stick out most.

 

I agree. It was most likely a nod to the comic, which is cool, but still sounded off...

 

 

And sorry, that was the only image I could find that this forum would allow.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Mattatsu

[D88M3R]

From what little i could grasp from the cutscenes, i feel totally indifferent, honestly i barely remember anything from it.
I did not liked the lack of continuity with D16 ending, i liked that the protagonist was actually the original Doomguy but they did nothing with it besides turn him into Kratos.
Cutscenes sucked and so did the exposition and most of the dialogues, if they are gonna focus on the story they should do some polish next time, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

I dont know, there is maybe a good concept as a base but turned ridiculous in development and in execution :/

[Scrabbs]

the whole "DOOMGUY IS LITCHERALLY THE COOLEST GUY EVER AND IS AN EPIC GOD" bit gets old real quick. I know the joke is everyone thinks doomguy has some altruistic reason for killing demons, but in reality he just really hates demons. Everything else is fine, I just don't like the game screaming how badass doomguy. I always found doomguy badass for the same reason I found the Hl protags and  John McClane cool, they where just regular people who refused to roll over and die and beat unbeatable odds. So him being pretty much a super hero makes him a bit more lame.

[whatup876]

20 hours ago, Scrabbs said:

the whole "DOOMGUY IS LITCHERALLY THE COOLEST GUY EVER AND IS AN EPIC GOD" bit gets old real quick. I know the joke is everyone thinks doomguy has some altruistic reason for killing demons, but in reality he just really hates demons. Everything else is fine, I just don't like the game screaming how badass doomguy. I always found doomguy badass for the same reason I found the Hl protags and  John McClane cool, they where just regular people who refused to roll over and die and beat unbeatable odds. So him being pretty much a super hero makes him a bit more lame.

 

I feel like they could have gone a route similar to Guts from Berserk or something about his struggles and suffering during his battles and how he keeps going despite that.

Like, imagine that one X-Men bit with Wolverine being burned to the point only his Adamantium skeleton was all that's left yet he was still alive, except it's Doomguy under the effects of Invulsphere while at low health.

 

The fact that they show his face again and even bring back the pain sounds are like reminders of what could be Doomguy's appeal.

From the torned armor and scared abs in the box art cover to the bloody face in the status bar, Doomguy was the one UAC marine that stood against Hell and even then, he had a literal Hell of a fight.

You either die a random UAC guard or end up going on a literal eternal fight against evil, no matter now painful it can be.

Literally and figuratively, he goes through Hell.

 

He suffers but never gives up.

Doomguy becoming stronger works as a follow up to the events of 1/2/64 but at the same time, you can tell the direction was a combination of pop culture/fanbase memes and a reboot iteration that could have been its own specific version of Doom than a canon follow up.

 

Like, some people imagined Doomguy becoming Hell's boogeyman but probably not with the tech knight stuff from the Night Sentinel.

This is, after all, a unique version of Doom, so it doesn't have to be 1:1 to what fans came up with mods, even if it can feel a bit more "out of boundries" compared to someone's series of mods.

[insertwackynamehere]

I enjoyed it because I love ridiculous in depth lore about stuff I like. I bought it and played through on easy just to enjoy seeing the game unfold since I’m a classic Doomer and don’t have time to get good at modern games.

 

I have a theory that Doomguy’s power, the divinity machine, etc, they all tie back to one truth from the original games: “you” are Doomguy. In other words, Doomguy is just channeling the player and has thousands of players, and endless tries to get things right. That’s where his true power is, he exists outside of his world because he’s just an avatar for people even outside the multiverse he resides in, on our plane. That’s why he doesn’t speak (something they make clear isn’t just incidental). He is a video game character inside a world that doesn’t realize this. I know it’s kind of cheesey full on meta fiction but the whole tie in where he is every Doomguy already tees this up.

 

His power is there is no such thing as death, a thousand players will try a thousand times to win and every loss is temporary; he will always eventually win as this immortal avatar for the player. Their fear is tied to the nature of video game mechanics as reflected in their multiverse.

 

I think it would be cool if they are working towards something like that. The game is already so meta and cheesy-cool that if they are working in that direction, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Edited April 14, 2020 by insertwackynamehere

[Caleb13]

7 hours ago, insertwackynamehere said:

I have a theory that Doomguy’s power, the divinity machine, etc, they all tie back to one truth from the original games: “you” are Doomguy.

 

Speaking of this, I wondered about the cutscene where the Sentinels find wounded Doomguy on their planet and the priests send him to the arena. According to Wikipedia, this confirms "that the Doom Slayer is the Doom Marine from the original Doom games". But... I don't get it. If Doom 4 is reboot of Doom 1 and DE is reboot of Doom 2, how that can be true? D1/2 is supposed to be some alternate Mars/Earth reality, perhaps ancient one? And how Doomguy got teleported to the Sentinel planet?

[AtimZarr1]

12 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

 

Speaking of this, I wondered about the cutscene where the Sentinels find wounded Doomguy on their planet and the priests send him to the arena. According to Wikipedia, this confirms "that the Doom Slayer is the Doom Marine from the original Doom games". But... I don't get it. If Doom 4 is reboot of Doom 1 and DE is reboot of Doom 2, how that can be true? D1/2 is supposed to be some alternate Mars/Earth reality, perhaps ancient one? And how Doomguy got teleported to the Sentinel planet?

 

At the end of Doom 64, Doomguy decided to remain in Hell to ensure the demons would never invade Earth ever again. At some point, through unknown means, he stumbled onto Argent D'Nur and was discovered by the Sentinels, where he was thrown into the arena to prove his worth. Later joining the Sentinel ranks in their war against Hell, he was now known as the Doom Slayer. After the fall of Argent D'Nur, the Doom Slayer was left stranded within Hell. The demon priests set out a trap that successfully entombed the Slayer within a sarcophagus. That sarcophagus was later retrieved by Samuel Hayden and brought to Mars. When a demonic invasion broke out on Mars, Hayden unleashed the Slayer, kickstarting the events of Doom 2016. After being teleported away at the end by Hayden, the Doom Slayer would come to Earth years later to find it under demon invasion, beginning the story of Doom Eternal.

 

The current theory is that there are multiple universes and that Hell is a bridge between them. During his time in Hell after Doom 64, Doomguy somehow went from the Classic universe to the 2016 Reboot universe by entering Argent D'Nur. How that happened exactly is unexplained, for now.

[Caleb13]

30 minutes ago, AtimZarr1 said:

At the end of Doom 64, Doomguy decided to remain in Hell to ensure the demons would never invade Earth ever again.   

 

Ah, I see. I never played D64 (original, bootlegged or otherwise), because I don't like its sounds, graphics and gameplay, so I missed this bit. Thanks.