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Should I Get Doom 3?


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  On 5/5/2020 at 12:38 PM, hybridial said:

I didn't think so, I thought it was pretty unimpressive and I was even less impressed by the concept it was meant to be "scary". 

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Oh no, at launch it was every bit as impressive as HL2 and Source were, but yes, even back then there were people who felt it sacrificed the gameplay at least a bit for the atmosphere and its repetitive nature was criticized, and that it wasn't quite on par with the classic titles. Over time, with standards and technology evolving, these feelings got amplified and became a lot more divisive among fans. 16 years later, and various elements of Doom 3 definitely show their age, considering they were criticized even back in its heyday.

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 12:32 PM, hybridial said:

It's called Doom 3, hard to argue with that

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Indeed. And the childish attitude of "not Doom because it isn't what I want from a Doom game" is at least mildly irritating and laughable whenever it surfaces. I've started ignoring these kind of post, entertaining as they may be.

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  On 5/5/2020 at 12:55 PM, seed said:

 

Oh no, at launch it was every bit as impressive as HL2 and Source were

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... Why do you think that argument would be persuasive to me? I mean I played HL 2 not that long after Doom 3, and all I got from either of them was how atrociously boring they were. I have never been impressed by anything beyond how fun and engaging a game is, and both were absolute failures in that regard for me. I mean really, I only have played Doom 1 and 2, and Quake 2 properly in the last few years. I mean I guess I played some Doom here or there but never seriously sat down and played them. On that fun and engaging thing, Doom 1 and 2 are superior to Doom 3 in 2020, and given that it would have been true back in 2003. What I can say is around that time, I was playing a lot of the Monolith games (thankfully not Blood 2), but you know, Blood, NOLF, FEAR, Condemned. Was much more impressed by those at the time. 

 

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Doom 3's advantage over Doom 4 is that it's open source. Practically we have a fairly advanced 3D game engine for free. I wonder if we'll ever have a FreeDoom 3.

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  On 5/5/2020 at 1:20 PM, seed said:

 

Who said that to being with ;p .

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Well, I'll just read what you said literally the, it was *as* impressive as Half Life 2, i.e. not impressive at all. :P 

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Fear was excellent. Fun melee (so good in the generally superb DM), ultra-satisfying weapons, great AI and some creepy jump scares.   Monolith finally got it together after the terrible Lithtech physics.  I loved NOLF in spite of those, because of its thematic departure from its contemporaries and overflowing treasury of ideas. A very creative game. Plus the bounded sandbox model as favoured by Ion Storm, Irrational and TTLG is the absolute sweet-spot for me. You get the propulsive force of a linear narrative and a sense of freedom free from the filler that usually accompanies true sandbox game design.

 

@hybridial Did you play Half-Life 2 eps 1 and 2? The main game had some really dreary sections -- oh that fucking endless drive through the wasteland -- but I remember the episodes really distilling it down to what worked. I personally think that other than fripperies like upgrades and challenges the FPS template pretty much stalled with Episode 2 -- we've been playing reskins of HL2 ever since, at least with the triple As.

Edited by holaareola

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  On 5/5/2020 at 1:36 PM, holaareola said:

@hybridial Did you play Half-Life 2 eps 1 and 2? The main game had some really dreary sections -- oh that fucking endless drive through the wasteland -- but I remember the episodes really distilling it down to what worked. I personally think that other than fripperies like upgrades and challenges the FPS template pretty much stalled with Episode 2 -- we've been playing reskins of HL2 ever since, at least with the triple As.

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No, I'd very much lost interest in playing any more Half Life 2. So they might be better, but I think in the long run Valve has shown its a terrible idea to have any investment in any games they do, and its not like I had any investment in that story. Would barely call it a story. I mean I didn't mind Portal 1 too much, Portal 2 was passable but held back by the over emphasis on quirky humour that quickly got grating, but in general Valve were a tech company and then now a retail provider, I have absolutely no respect for them as games designers. 

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FEAR was okay. The combat was quite good and I liked the "mini non-linearity" of the levels, were enemies could flank you, and you could approach combat in different ways. It however didn't work for me as a horror game. You fought the same generic scifi soldiers almost for the entire game. A horror game with non-scary enemies... They tried to tack on horror atmosphere by adding creepy ambient sound and through that lame attempt of copying Japanese horror movie motives with the creepy girl.

Edited by Tetzlaff

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Yeah, I don't think FEAR was much as a horror game but at the time it was at least fun. Condemned was definitely more effective that way, but honestly after playing System Shock 2 recently I don't know if any First person game is as effective as that is. And SS2 doesn't have dingy, overly dark environments, I think people place far too much on that to make a game scary, it really is superficial as all hell. You want to be effective horror, have a scenario worth engaging with and gameplay that makes combat survival really tense. 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 1:51 PM, hybridial said:

You want to be effective horror, have a scenario worth engaging with and gameplay that makes combat survival really tense. 

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Manhunt is for that reason my favorite horror game, I haven't had anything make me feel the same since. I defend Doom 3 but I agree it is not horror, never felt tense the right way in it.

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  On 5/5/2020 at 9:05 AM, Foebane72 said:

It just occurs to me that people wouldn't mind the original flashlight/gun mechanic so much if the shotgun wasn't so shitty to begin with.

 

And then it occurred to me that why bother with a flashlight when the weapon discharges light your way anyway? Yes, when you fire the gun, you can see your target!

 

If I remember correctly, this weapon discharge lighting is BROKEN in BFG Edition - am I right?

 

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They disabled most of dynamic lights for the weapons and their projectiles in BFG edition.

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  On 5/5/2020 at 1:51 PM, hybridial said:

Yeah, I don't think FEAR was much as a horror game but at the time it was at least fun.

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I'm still yet to play Fear, but yeah from what I've seen so far, I think the strong points of the game lie elsewhere, and not on the horror side of things.

 

In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone praising it for the horror.

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 1:51 PM, hybridial said:

You want to be effective horror, have a scenario worth engaging with and gameplay that makes combat survival really tense. 

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Or no combat at all. Nothing will ever give me nightmares as much as Amnesia TDD did. Heck, I'm never replaying that game, my sanity is forever stuck on " ... " .

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  On 5/5/2020 at 2:02 PM, seed said:

Or no combat at all. Nothing will ever give me nightmares as much as Amnesia TDD did. Heck, I'm never replaying that game, my sanity is forever stuck on " ... " .

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Yeah. Although I find the Amnesia games don't particularly do it for me, but I find it hard to say why. But I loved the Clock Tower series, I thought the recent spiritual successor to that, Remothered was great. And I got a game called The Coma 2: Vicious Sisters which is a Korean game that has pretty nice 2D art, I liked what I've played so far. 

Edited by hybridial

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I'd not defend its horror aspect in the larger sense but Fear definitely has some good jump scares. There are times where something flashes by so quickly at the edge of your vision you're unsure if you saw it, whereas Doom 3 almost always followed through immediately -- the closet door busts open, the threat is real.

 

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 2:02 PM, seed said:

 

I'm still yet to play Fear, but yeah from what I've seen so far, I think the strong points of the game lie elsewhere, and not on the horror side of things.

 

In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone praising it for the horror.

 

 

Or no combat at all. Nothing will ever give me nightmares as much as Amnesia TDD did. Heck, I'm never replaying that game, my sanity is forever stuck on " ... " .

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Oh man, and the worst thing for me was something you couldn't even see.  Hope to get round to playing Soma some day.

 

 

//edit: speaking of first person horror, anyone played Outlast? The one game I couldn't finish due to stress levels. Actually, I abandoned Dead Space 2  3/4 of the way through for the same reasons.  I'm so susceptible!

Edited by holaareola

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  On 5/5/2020 at 2:34 PM, holaareola said:

speaking of first person horror, anyone played Outlast? The one game I couldn't finish due to stress levels. Actually, I abandoned Dead Space 2  3/4 of the way through for the same reasons.  I'm so susceptible!

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I played through Outlast, had some okay moments but was fairly mediocre, did maintain my interest to finish it at least I guess.

 

I abandoned Dead Space 2 at the final boss because it was one of the most frustrating boss fights I have ever borne witness to and I had enough of it after just trying to beat it a few times. 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 2:45 PM, hybridial said:

 

I played through Outlast, had some okay moments but was fairly mediocre, did maintain my interest to finish it at least I guess.

 

I abandoned Dead Space 2 at the final boss because it was one of the most frustrating boss fights I have ever borne witness to and I had enough of it after just trying to beat it a few times. 

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Mediocre? You miserable rag, hah! It's a crude game and very obviously mechanical in how it ratchets up the tension but I found it so effective despite being able to see exactly how it was operating. As I said though, I'm susceptible.  I bailed on DS2 after seeing one of those invulnerable monsters flooding in with the horde after you drill a hole or something.

 

Speaking of System Shock 2 and how horror isn't always in the obvious: one of the tensest, most dread-inducing parts in my memory had nothing to do with the zombies or writhing worms but the fucking sneaky droids in... ah, I can't remember. The cargo bay or somewhere.  SS2 really nails the isolation in a haunted space station vibe -- even when nothing's happening you feel like the very environment is against you.  Shame the game handles like absolute garbage.  I love it all the same, as with Thief 1/2.

 

 

Err.... getting back slightly on topic. I don't think you even need Doom 3 to run it any more, but fans of Thief should check out The Dark Mod.  There are some really good missions. 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 2:02 PM, seed said:

In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone praising it for the horror..

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Horror is like all people talk about when they bring up FEAR, well that and the replicas AI.

Edited by sluggard

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  On 5/5/2020 at 12:54 PM, Redneckerz said:

It was a great benchmark game though, especially with its Ultra Settings requiring more VRAM than what was available on cards at the time (It was till the Geforce 6800 and Radeon X800 XL that we would get 512 MB cards.)

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I had to upgrade my graphics card for this game, even when I thought I was prepared for it, but there were no cards around that could reach the mythical "Ultra" setting.

 

I suppose I've always been dazzled by flashy John Carmack 3D engines. It happened about four years before with id Tech 3 and Quake 3 Arena, which I thought looked absolutely stunning then, being this much-touted "Trinity" engine that was going to blow absolutely everything else away from when Quake first came out, and was almost legendarily anticipated (at least by me) and Q3A did NOT disappoint me nor most others, becoming id's most successful engine at that time with dozens of titles using it.

 

And id Tech 4 was just as widely anticipated by me and many others for its tech, and I was particularly impressed by the Unified Lighting and Shadowing engine which truly was a world first, even if some aspects of things like normal mapping were done first by others. True, quite a few people were disappointed by the gameplay, but I didn't mind that aspect, as it was a different genre of Doom for the most part.

 

I find it funny, but I looked at the other games coming out using id Tech 4, and whilst Quake 4 was a disappointment to me (even more industrial-looking with bad sequences and samey gameplay) I thought 2006's Prey looked even more gorgeous and was quite original in parts and was quite the epic game. If only the sequel promised had been delivered.

 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 1:58 PM, PaulRazvan95 said:

They disabled most of dynamic lights for the weapons and their projectiles in BFG edition.

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Why?

 

Why would they do that?? It's like they didn't understand the game or something!

 

I've seen videos of how BFG sucks in comparison with Vanilla, and some of the laziness shown by Bethesda is utterly shocking, like the physics engine is broken, and bodies no longer pile up, but go THROUGH each other! And that's just one example!

 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 2:59 PM, holaareola said:

Speaking of System Shock 2 and how horror isn't always in the obvious: one of the tensest, most dread-inducing parts in my memory had nothing to do with the zombies or writhing worms but the fucking sneaky droids in... ah, I can't remember. The cargo bay or somewhere.  SS2 really nails the isolation in a haunted space station vibe -- even when nothing's happening you feel like the very environment is against you.  Shame the game handles like absolute garbage.  I love it all the same, as with Thief 1/2.

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I really have no excuse for not playing it sooner, to find a game that I thought was the best of Metroid, the best of classic Resident Evil all tied together into one game with a really memorable antagonist and story. I think the worst thing is with Bioshock, they modernised aspects of it which was good, but they then also tore the intellectual heart from it and removed a lot of the reasons why SS2 worked so well. The Bioshock games might be more accessible but they're just... I usually don't like to put it as crudely but, they're just a lot dumber. Usually when you play older games and then similar newer games have improvements that make it hard to go back to older ones, but actually playing System Shock 2 left me with just contempt for the Bioshock games now, even 2 which I did like the best.

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But the Bioshock games look so BEAUTIFUL, especially the first one.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't really gone back to those games because both versions of each of the first two are broken in different ways: The Remastereds of 1 and 2 have weird texture pop-up issues, the original Bioshock 1 has no audio with my PC, and original Bioshock 1 is just not working.

 

Bioshock Infinite is great for the most part, but I have mixed feelings about it, and funnily enough, I find the graphics on that one look rather "plasticky" for my liking.

 

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The Replica AI wasn't as advanced since really it's scripted stuff.

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 3:27 PM, Foebane72 said:

 

I had to upgrade my graphics card for this game, even when I thought I was prepared for it, but there were no cards around that could reach the mythical "Ultra" setting.

 

I suppose I've always been dazzled by flashy John Carmack 3D engines. It happened about four years before with id Tech 3 and Quake 3 Arena, which I thought looked absolutely stunning then, being this much-touted "Trinity" engine that was going to blow absolutely everything else away from when Quake first came out, and was almost legendarily anticipated (at least by me) and Q3A did NOT disappoint me nor most others, becoming id's most successful engine at that time with dozens of titles using it.

 

And id Tech 4 was just as widely anticipated by me and many others for its tech, and I was particularly impressed by the Unified Lighting and Shadowing engine which truly was a world first, even if some aspects of things like normal mapping were done first by others. True, quite a few people were disappointed by the gameplay, but I didn't mind that aspect, as it was a different genre of Doom for the most part.

 

I find it funny, but I looked at the other games coming out using id Tech 4, and whilst Quake 4 was a disappointment to me (even more industrial-looking with bad sequences and samey gameplay) I thought 2006's Prey looked even more gorgeous and was quite original in parts and was quite the epic game. If only the sequel promised had been delivered.

 

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A problem with Doom 3 was that id focused more on the engine than the game itself (which the same can be said for Quake 1).

Edited by The Strife Commando

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  On 5/5/2020 at 4:20 PM, Foebane72 said:

Bioshock Infinite is great for the most part, but I have mixed feelings about it, and funnily enough, I find the graphics on that one look rather "plasticky" for my liking.

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Whereas I despise that game beyond words, I almost don't count it with the other two because they're not fucking awful... Infinite is. It's not an exaggeration to say whether or not it is the single worst game I have ever played, it is easily the one I hate most and have the most absolute disdain for. 

 

And that's mostly because of the writing, but I also don't think there's really anything positive to say about it as a game, because they took out Bioshock's only real gameplay strengths, so, its even "dumberer" than those games are, and in general I consider it a poster child for the worst about this era of AAA games. 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 4:20 PM, Foebane72 said:

But the Bioshock games look so BEAUTIFUL, especially the first one.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't really gone back to those games because both versions of each of the first two are broken in different ways: The Remastereds of 1 and 2 have weird texture pop-up issues, the original Bioshock 1 has no audio with my PC, and original Bioshock 1 is just not working.

 

Bioshock Infinite is great for the most part, but I have mixed feelings about it, and funnily enough, I find the graphics on that one look rather "plasticky" for my liking.

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Bioshock 1's premise, setting and style was awesome and the visuals still hold up today. It should have ended much sooner after the Andrew Ryan encounter though.

 

As a series I'm lukewarm. I can't describe the game systems except for gunplay as anything but a watering down of the TTLG greats -- perhaps with a fresh mind free from the *shock and spiritual successor expectations I might have been able to enjoy them more as straight up shooters with very slight RPG influence.   Thought Infinite especially was very average, with worse powers and gunplay than the first. The story was excellent but felt really weird welded to such a linear shooter with its lifeless movie-set world.  At times everything was so static and waiting for me to move I felt like I was playing a game set in the literal backdrop of another game. Especially bad given the illusion of choice conceit of the first Bioshock's story. Here there wasn't even an illusion. THROW THE ROCK TO PROCEED.

Edited by holaareola

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  On 5/5/2020 at 4:51 PM, holaareola said:

The story was excellent

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Really? I mean I guess it could be even if it makes absolutely no sense, constantly pulls nonsense out of its arse and turns Elizabeth into a monstrous fool who gets Booker to do really really stupid things that won't in fact solve anything except shut up it does because the writer said so.

 

It is fucking diarrhoea of the worst sort. I went into it with an open mind, not knowing what I was going into really and it just... it really quickly went from playing out of any kind of healthy interest and more how bad is it going to get and how angry I was going to get, until the ending where if it had been a physical copy of the game I had I would have snapped the disc in two. Gamers should have higher standards than this, I mean fucking really. 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 3:39 PM, Foebane72 said:

I've seen videos of how BFG sucks in comparison with Vanilla, and some of the laziness shown by Bethesda is utterly shocking, like the physics engine is broken, and bodies no longer pile up, but go THROUGH each other! And that's just one example!

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BFG Edition was not developed by Bethesda. Bethesda has always been a publisher in relation with id.

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 4:20 PM, Foebane72 said:

I find the graphics on that one look rather "plasticky" for my liking.

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Not the only one. Although I'm very far from being a graphics whore by any means, I do find myself rather picky when it comes to how certain engines render things. I personally prefer things looking more realistic, and not like plastic. The farthest I go is cell-shaded graphics, but something like B:I isn't particularly appealing or pleasing visually to me.

 

When it comes to modern engines, this is a prime reason why I like Unreal Engine, CryEngine, Source, recent idTech, and a few others the most. Yes, they can be tweaked to look very different than how they "naturally" look, sure, but you get my point.

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 5:03 PM, hybridial said:

Gamers should have higher standards than this, I mean fucking really. 

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It's debatable really, some things people like tend to be very divisive and some genuinely enjoy objectively bad games - *cough* Aliens Colossal Bullshit *cough*.

 

The thing with standards is, just like with preferences, is that they vary from person to person - and the more variety, the better (or worse I guess :p), fuck uniformity. You know, I sometimes do wonder whether you're thinking lowly of people who enjoy stuff you hate honestly, but I don't know why (no sarcasm or disrespect intended BTW). I notice this with myself too sometimes, that I tend to judge people according to tastes and preferences, and I think that's a double-edged sword at most - cause I also consider it a pretty petty thing to do.

Edited by seed

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  On 5/5/2020 at 5:03 PM, hybridial said:

 

Really? I mean I guess it could be even if it makes absolutely no sense, constantly pulls nonsense out of its arse and turns Elizabeth into a monstrous fool who gets Booker to do really really stupid things that won't in fact solve anything except shut up it does because the writer said so.

 

It is fucking diarrhoea of the worst sort. I went into it with an open mind, not knowing what I was going into really and it just... it really quickly went from playing out of any kind of healthy interest and more how bad is it going to get and how angry I was going to get, until the ending where if it had been a physical copy of the game I had I would have snapped the disc in two. Gamers should have higher standards than this, I mean fucking really. 

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Yeah, I kind of mentally rescinded that after hitting post but couldn't be arsed to go back and edit unless someone picked it apart.  I meant more the execution was excellent. I only played it once when it came out, but I remember the story pacing being bang-on and despite being a bit silly in the usual multiple-timeline ways keeping me hooked enough to plough on through the tepid gameplay, those weird twins being fun characters with great voice performances and, the finger was a great hook that I didn't see coming and recasting everything previous in a new light, the whole game culminating in an atmospheric ending with a fantastic Radiohead-ish string score.  Even the texture of the final scene --- the water, the reeds, the gentle voices. I thought it was very good.

 

I can't remember stuff about Elizabeth being a monstrous fool, or indeed anything except that she could open those portals and was connected to the metal bird, but even so I think calling "fucking diarrhoea of the worst sort" ridiculously hyperbolic would be an understatement! We're talking story in games here, I think I could give you 30 examples worse without pause.

 

That said -- it could be that for me plot holes or unexplained things don't bother me much, my favourite authors and directors leave lots unexplained and it's more the impression and the atmosphere than watertight plotting or motivational realism.

 

edit: by the way, I'm curious, what example would you give as a great videogame story?

Edited by holaareola

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  On 5/5/2020 at 5:40 PM, seed said:

BFG Edition was not developed by Bethesda. Bethesda has always been a publisher in relation with id.

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BFG Edition was not developed AT ALL, regardless of whoever was responsible. It was BUTCHERED. And I sincerely doubt that id Software would break one of their own games, of their own volition.

 

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  On 5/5/2020 at 6:01 PM, Foebane72 said:

BFG Edition was not developed AT ALL, regardless of whoever was responsible. It was BUTCHERED. And I sincerely doubt that id Software would break one of their own games, of their own volition.

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Yeah, because the various console ports and re-releases classic Doom have seen were all Bethesda's doing...

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  On 5/5/2020 at 5:40 PM, seed said:

The thing with standards is, just like with preferences, is that they vary from person to person - and the more variety, the better (or worse I guess :p), fuck uniformity. You know, I sometimes do wonder whether you're thinking lowly of people who enjoy stuff you hate honestly, but I don't know why (no sarcasm or disrespect intended BTW). I notice this with myself too sometimes, that I tend to judge people according to tastes and preferences, and I think that's a double-edged sword at most - cause I also consider it a pretty petty thing to do.

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I try not to because I know thats an ugly and unproductive thing. I just have a lot of passion for writing, I want to be a writer, that's where I apply myself creatively. Its hard to turn that part off sometimes, for better or worse. I know I'd probably benefit from trying to adopt a more calm, rational position that maintains the analytical aspect, and just treat things a little more dispassionately. I can do that sometimes, even when people might not think so. Like I think my use of language, whilst blunt, isn't necessarily what Redneckerz thinks it is, but I understand why he might think that and I think its understandable, we just have some differences in how we use language. But maybe I do make it hard to understand my levels of distaste, because something like Doom 3 or even Dark Souls, which I have my issues with, they're not anywhere the level of distaste I have against Bioshock Infinite. No game I've played is really close to be honest. That passion is from a different and far more fundamental source. 

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 5:49 PM, holaareola said:

Yeah, I kind of mentally rescinded that after hitting post but couldn't be arsed to go back and edit unless someone picked it apart.  I meant more the execution was excellent. I only played it once when it came out, but I remember the story pacing being bang-on and despite being a bit silly in the usual multiple-timeline ways keeping me hooked enough to plough on through the tepid gameplay, those weird twins being fun characters with great voice performances and, the finger was a great hook that I didn't see coming and recasting everything previous in a new light, the whole game culminating in an atmospheric ending with a fantastic Radiohead-ish string score.  Even the texture of the final scene --- the water, the reeds, the gentle voices. I thought it was very good.

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Yes, presentation was slick. But that was in service to a fundamentally bankrupt story. I've long learned to tune that stuff out, because its superficial. For me what a story ultimately says is the heart of it, and I do not think the writers here realised what this mess said in the end, or they did but they had no choice because it is documented that at some point the game was a victim of development disruptions that likely severely negatively impacted every aspect of it. 

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 5:49 PM, holaareola said:

I can't remember stuff about Elizabeth being a monstrous fool, or indeed anything except that she could open those portals and was connected to the metal bird, but even so I think calling "fucking diarrhoea of the worst sort" ridiculously hyperbolic would be an understatement! We're talking story in games here, I think I could give you 30 examples worse without pause.

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It's not. It really is that bad. In the end, Elizabeth's "solution" was murder. In fact murder is about all the story provided as answers to any of these problems. But she has the ability to step in and out of different realities, in different times and places. At no point did the game apply logic to any of that and suggest alternative solutions to problems that are pretty obvious. And of course it just says "oh, certain things can't be changed", that's fucking convenient. Booker being killed just prior to his baptism did not solve the problem, it won't sever the timeline. If you had to resort to murder, then what would have worked, is stopping one of the Lutece's from being conceived, so killing one of their parents. So Elizabeth is both single mindedly destructive, and a complete moron at the same time. I hate her character, she's fucking one of the worst ever conceived in fiction. I think this story, is one of the worst and ugly ever conceived in fiction.

 

  On 5/5/2020 at 5:49 PM, holaareola said:

That said -- it could be that for me plot holes or unexplained things don't bother me much, my favourite authors and directors leave lots unexplained and it's more the impression and the atmosphere than watertight plotting or motivational realism.

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I appreciate your acknowledgement of it, but, that kind of thinking is why I lament people don't apply more critical thinking to stuff like this. Another game probably more universally beloved than Bioshock Infinite is The Last of Us. Now I don't think that had a bad story, but people do overrate it a lot. If you're someone who's well read, and just been exposed to a lot of stories in different mediums, you know its nothing that special. Even in the videogame sphere I don't think its special. But its not categorically bad (we'll see where 2 ends up won't we?). I just don't really like it because the gameplay is really dull and the story doesn't really make up for it, and thats how I felt about all the Uncharted games as well so it is what it is, as I always said, I need fun and engagement and a game really has to satisfy both well enough.

 

Oh and also Bioshock Infinite did cost me £40, so I do like to verbally beat it down like it owes me money, because to this day, still pissed about that. :P

Edited by hybridial
Just wording a reference to be more accurate to what happened.

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