Mick Gordon unlikely to work on another Doom game after Eternal’s OST release

[Foebane72]

On 4/19/2020 at 11:39 PM, Man of Doom said:

 

This kind of waveform processing is common with Spotify and other compressed streaming audio services, I've seen many waveforms for popular 80s songs that look like that in Audacity, and I think it's because the people who run Spotify don't care about the original artist's intentions, but want MAXIMUM VOLUME THROUGHOUT!

 

When your music is fucked up by this much, and it's the only copy available, you're screwed. I don't think there's any way to restore it to the original form.

 

[NoXion]

5 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

 

This kind of waveform processing is common with Spotify and other compressed streaming audio services, I've seen many waveforms for popular 80s songs that look like that in Audacity, and I think it's because the people who run Spotify don't care about the original artist's intentions, but want MAXIMUM VOLUME THROUGHOUT!

 

When your music is fucked up by this much, and it's the only copy available, you're screwed. I don't think there's any way to restore it to the original form.

 

There is if the original recording masters are still in existence, which at this stage they should be, it's only been about a month since the game was released.

[Foebane72]

3 minutes ago, NoXion said:

There is if the original recording masters are still in existence, which at this stage they should be, it's only been about a month since the game was released.

 

I didn't imply they weren't, but why couldn't they just be copied to the soundtrack with no degrading processing?

 

[NoXion]

40 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

 

I didn't imply they weren't, but why couldn't they just be copied to the soundtrack with no degrading processing?

 

The in-game soundtrack was specifically mastered to fit in with the rest of the game's soundscape (plus it's all chopped up and segmented so the game can use it dynamically), I believe. Although considering that even the game rips seem to sound better than some of the tracks that have been officially released, I do wonder if doing that wouldn't have actually been the better option than the rush-job we got.

Edited April 22, 2020 by NoXion

[Gradius]

On 4/20/2020 at 5:16 AM, Mr. Freeze said:

You just don't fuck with other people's mixes. It's testament to sacrilege in audio production, especially considering how time-consuming mixing and mastering can get. Sounds like id wanted to expedite the mastering process so the farmed it out...shameful if true!

 

Sure, but it's *highly* unlikely there were mixes to mess with. Seems like Mick had only completed 11 tracks, so Mossholder was left to quickly piece together the rest in a few days so that Bethesda could rush a sudden release.

[Deimos]

On 4/20/2020 at 3:38 AM, Noiser said:

Uhm. That may explain why some DE songs sound more simplistic than others. Or at least that was my impression.

The gladiator theme definitely felt like it was missing a whole layer.

[Man of Doom]

So at the very least, we’ll be getting the full Mick mix of the OST.

 

 

[Koko Ricky]

21 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

 

This kind of waveform processing is common with Spotify and other compressed streaming audio services, I've seen many waveforms for popular 80s songs that look like that in Audacity, and I think it's because the people who run Spotify don't care about the original artist's intentions, but want MAXIMUM VOLUME THROUGHOUT!

 

When your music is fucked up by this much, and it's the only copy available, you're screwed. I don't think there's any way to restore it to the original form.

 

Keep on mind that many popular songs have been remastered (often multiple times), resulting in brickwalling.  Services like spotify do normalize audio to a particular DB level, but the only compression I'm aware of is in the bitrate. 

[Varis Alpha]

8 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

So at the very least, we’ll be getting the full Mick mix of the OST.

that does sound very nice and all, but is there any more conclusive evidence to this other than some random, out of context screenshot from someone that supposedly mailed the guy? it might just be the cynical side of me, but it might be a bit too early to jump for joy without anything more to go from aside from screenshots like this.

[durian]

I've not been paying a lot of attention to any of this, but since the game was released I've been keeping an eye out for a nice vinyl boxset of the OST (the one for 2016 was sweet). Worth noting that the OST will have to be mastered separately for vinyl, and I'd be surprised if the medium could handle the compression shown in the shots above, so there's still hope for some improvement. 

[Rampy470]

6 hours ago, Viscra Maelstrom said:

that does sound very nice and all, but is there any more conclusive evidence to this other than some random, out of context screenshot from someone that supposedly mailed the guy? it might just be the cynical side of me, but it might be a bit too early to jump for joy without anything more to go from aside from screenshots like this.

It's already more believeable than the Twitter DM thing since Mick historically prefers email correspondance.

 

'Course if it is fake then they might have just known that but hey swings and roundabouts.

[Gokuma]

Looks like some good news.   I can't believe that shit was allowed to fly.   I'm no audio engineer or musician but I damn well have known for who knows how many years (maybe 20 or close to it), you don't screw up a recording where the waveform is constantly chopped off at the top..   Word from an actual musician friend is you have some occasional peaks in the red.   I remember seeing an article by someone who was arguing with his professor in college who was actually teaching the students to increase the volume screwing up audio tracks like that.   Chopped off wave form = total distortion and loss of quality and detail.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Gokuma

[Nevander]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:18 AM, Man of Doom said:

So at the very least, we’ll be getting the full Mick mix of the OST.

Well thank fuck for that. I need to hear the full OST by Mick and Mick only.

[SYS]

Not as terrible as slowing down the tracks by 50%, detuning them, running them through a band pass and calling it "Lo-fi chill hip hop beats to slay to". But still very bad. 

 

Get a Mick cut and give me the mid-life crisis vinyl boxset. 

[Senor500]

This is from Mick's latest Instagram post:

Even if that DM screenshot was fake, he basically said the same thing here...

[Mr. Freeze]

There goes the "it's a fake" theory. Man this blows. 

[seed]

So... let me see if I understand - we're not getting an uncut version either? Or is it just about the OST shipped with the game?

[Senor500]

From what I understand he won't be able to make the uncut version, he says he's trying to and hopes to have it done one day if they allow him but they may not.

[Man of Doom]

It gets better.

 

 

EDIT: I actually follow Mick on IG, and I can confirm that these comments are real.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Man of Doom

[Koko Ricky]

id Software has contracted musicians to compose for them a number of times, be it Bobby Prince, Trent Reznor, Sonic Mayhem, and of course Mick Gordon. There was never any problem with official releases of these works before.

Edited April 30, 2020 by GoatLord

[Robo_Cola]

Sorry if I missed this detail but does anybody know who's not permitting him to release these tracks?  Id, Bethesda, someone else?

[oCrapaCreeper]

2 hours ago, STILES said:

Sorry if I missed this detail but does anybody know who's not permitting him to release these tracks?  Id, Bethesda, someone else?

Legal issues if those instagram comments above are anything to go by. Even if he composed the music, that doesn't mean he owns the rights to release his own versions that are technically unofficial in Bethesda's legal tinted glasses. If he's not on the project at all anymore, there isn't much he can do other than hope Bethesda stops being shit for a few seconds.

Edited May 1, 2020 by oCrapaCreeper

[rustygizzard]

i've been seeing the confusion around who started this whole mess, keep in mind that bethesda would be more likely preventing this than id, as they handle the soundtrack releases and all the merch for doom, while id simply handles the development of the game. this was also the case for the trailer shitshow since bethesda handled the music on that and decided not to use mick's music for whatever reason. so more than likely their legal team is preventing mick from fixing it without consequences, and bethesda once again probably won't listen to the community feedback unfortunately. pretty shitty when you create something and you don't even have any control over it. fuck.

[seed]

9 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

 If he's not on the project at all anymore, there isn't much he can do other than hope Bethesda stops being shit for a few seconds.

 

Now about this, I think we should still wait a bit more to have the full picture. To my knowledge, Bethesda is yet to make public their stance on the matter as well as tell their side of the story. Maybe Mick isn't quite as innocent as he paints himself to be, it happens.

[NoXion]

10 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Now about this, I think we should still wait a bit more to have the full picture. To my knowledge, Bethesda is yet to make public their stance on the matter as well as tell their side of the story. Maybe Mick isn't quite as innocent as he paints himself to be, it happens.

Does this forum accept donations for running costs? Because I'd be willing to bet £10 that it's Bethesda staying true to their recent history and fucking things up again.

[seed]

36 minutes ago, NoXion said:

Does this forum accept donations for running costs? Because I'd be willing to bet £10 that it's Bethesda staying true to their recent history and fucking things up again.

 

Maybe, maybe not, we'll see.

 

Besides I'm not a betting man, so you win by default (I also don't have any money) :p .

[Koko Ricky]

It's good to assume innocence on both sides, but Bethesda has a history of pissing off its customer base and id hasn't had issues like this in the past.

[AtimZarr1]

14 hours ago, GoatLord said:

and id hasn't had issues like this in the past.

 

Wasn't there an issue with Trent Reznor back in Doom 3?

[seed]

6 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

Wasn't there an issue with Trent Reznor back in Doom 3?

 

There was, a money related issue actually.

 

If I recall correctly, id said Trent wanted to be paid in "rockstar dollars" - aka his talent was too expensive.

[taufan99]

47 minutes ago, seed said:

 

There was, a money related issue actually.

 

If I recall correctly, id said Trent wanted to be paid in "rockstar dollars" - aka his talent was too expensive.

That also answers the question I wanted to ask as well. Which I didn't, as it's (obviously) nothing like the current Mick Gordon fiasco.