Mick Gordon unlikely to work on another Doom game after Eternal’s OST release

[D88M3R]

Well, good to hear from this from the actual people involved instead of rumors and whatever, maybe this is a dumb question but why they did not asked Mick earlier to start working on the soundtrack?

 

Also:

 

"At E3 last year, we announced that the OST would be included with the DOOM Eternal Collector’s Edition (CE) version of the game. At that point in time we didn’t have Mick under contract for the OST and because of ongoing issues receiving the music we needed for the game, did not want to add the distraction at that time"

 

Why did they made the statement that was gonna be released if they did not know it for certain? That is on them, that is typical "AAA" gaming industry bullshit.

 

Anyway, this seem like a clash of an artist with business men, i am not gonna defend anybody, i would like to see now Mick response as to why he took so long to finish the music to get the full picture.

[TenthRingWanderer]

1 hour ago, BarabaszEnthusiast said:

 

Not enough time for Mick, Doom 2016 OST was released  4 months after the game itself.

 

One more thing. Devs are very well aware that the next composer will be disliked on the spot simply for not being Mick Gordon and he must create his opus magnum otherwise he, along with Marty and Hugo, will be eaten alive by the crowd. Which will also damage Doom's PR.

I'd argue that Doom's PR is already on rocky ground thanks to what happened with Doom Annihilation and the immediate Mick Gordon messiah brigade for both here and the TV Spot controversy. Are they even going to look at themselves in the mirror?

As a recent arrival I have nothing against Bethesda and Id, but this childish toxicity must fucking stop before DOOM is driven into the ground by its own fanbase.

Edited May 4, 2020 by TenthRingWanderer

[BarabaszEnthusiast]

8 minutes ago, TenthRingWanderer said:

I'd argue that Doom's PR is already on rocky ground thanks to what happened with Doom Annihilation and the immediate Mick Gordon messiah brigade for both here and the TV Spot controversy. Are they even going to look at themselves in the mirror?

As a recent arrival I have nothing against Bethesda and Id, but this childish toxicity must fucking stop before DOOM is driven into the ground by its own fanbase.

 

Incoming DLC will show us how all of this drama will impact the sales. In the end it is all about sales, right? If profit won't meet expectations maybe we will never gonna get another Doom game or Id will stay quiet hoping everything blows over in 4-5 years.

[TenthRingWanderer]

9 minutes ago, BarabaszEnthusiast said:

 

Incoming DLC will show us how all of this drama will impact the sales. In the end it is all about sales, right? If profit won't meet expectations maybe we will never gonna get another Doom game or Id will stay quiet hoping everything blows over in 4-5 years.

Or they could just change the tone of the next DOOM game for the fourth time time depending on the composer. Doom 64, 3 and Eternal shows us that it can be done in the series and work well (Or well with a good portion of gamers).

Edited May 5, 2020 by TenthRingWanderer

[Bauul]

2 hours ago, D88M3R said:

"At E3 last year, we announced that the OST would be included with the DOOM Eternal Collector’s Edition (CE) version of the game. At that point in time we didn’t have Mick under contract for the OST and because of ongoing issues receiving the music we needed for the game, did not want to add the distraction at that time"

 

Why did they made the statement that was gonna be released if they did not know it for certain?

 

Because they didn't have to use Gordon for the OST.  If he didn't have the availability, they could (as they did) do it themselves, or hire someone else.  If they'd asked him once the in-game music was delivered "do you have time for the OST?" and he had said "no", then all of this would have been avoided.  But he didn't, he said "yes", and that's where all this went wrong.

[Gokuma]

So no one is innocent.   Except me.   I swear I had nothing to do with this!   But anyway going back to the quality of the released tracks.   You don't screw up recordings like that with all the waveforms chopped off in a distorted mess.  I have no idea how to "mix" a soundtrack except I wouldn't do THAT!

 

EDIT: I saw the wall of text.   If that's how id received the source material, that's pretty messed up.   I sure don't know how to undo that.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Gokuma

[MadGuy]

5 hours ago, D88M3R said:

"At E3 last year, we announced that the OST would be included with the DOOM Eternal Collector’s Edition (CE) version of the game. At that point in time we didn’t have Mick under contract for the OST and because of ongoing issues receiving the music we needed for the game, did not want to add the distraction at that time"

 

Why did they made the statement that was gonna be released if they did not know it for certain? That is on them, that is typical "AAA" gaming industry bullshit.

Funnily enough many people seems to forget that the game was supposed to release on November 2019, and got delayed one month prior.

 

So, when they were supposed to contact Mick or start making the OST in the first place?

[Edward850]

7 minutes ago, MadGuy said:

So, when they were supposed to contact Mick or start making the OST in the first place?

This has already been answered and you should go back and read the actual letter, however for brevity Bauul already explained it:

3 hours ago, Bauul said:

Because they didn't have to use Gordon for the OST.  If he didn't have the availability, they could (as they did) do it themselves, or hire someone else.  If they'd asked him once the in-game music was delivered "do you have time for the OST?" and he had said "no", then all of this would have been avoided.  But he didn't, he said "yes", and that's where all this went wrong.

Put simply, it's because of the delay that they asked him, otherwise they would have just done the OST themselves if there was no time.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Edward850

[Cacodemon345]

I wonder if the same would happen if id got some other guy to compose the OST. I mean, it's 50+ fucking tracks and I can't imagine that modern music composing would be as simple as MIDI music composing...

[Edward850]

14 minutes ago, Cacodemon345 said:

I wonder if the same would happen if id got some other guy to compose the OST. I mean, it's 50+ fucking tracks and I can't imagine that modern music composing would be as simple as MIDI music composing...

They asked him to do 12.

[elmo972]

That's a bummer...

[AtimZarr1]

This is really disappointing to hear. I hope Mick decides to explain what went on from his side. He missed deadlines, got over-ambitious on some goals, had been vague on social media when this first came to light, and didn't seem to do anything about the negativity Chad was receiving despite finding it "distressing". Altogether, this paints him in an unprofessional light. An explanation from him could help provide some context, but I personally don't think we'll see one (maybe he'll just apologize).

 

I wonder what the 12th track is that hasn't been mixed by Mick yet, since it seems they're still waiting for that. Maybe the Gladiator track?

 

I am curious to see who id will go to next - the next composer will be scrutinized for sure. And will they bring someone in for the DLCs or will they end up re-using Eternal's soundtrack at this point? I guess the answer depends on the timeline of when these DLCs are meant to be released.

[Gez]

9 hours ago, TenthRingWanderer said:

I'd argue that Doom's PR is already on rocky ground thanks to what happened with Doom Annihilation

What happened there? Id said they were not involved, and then a bunch of gaters-type went apeshit because the protagonist wasn't The Doom Slayer From Doom 2016 that the movie studio did not have the rights to since the license deal dates back to Doom 3 and did not include future games.

 

5 hours ago, Gokuma said:

But anyway going back to the quality of the released tracks.   You don't screw up recordings like that with all the waveforms chopped off in a distorted mess.  I have no idea how to "mix" a soundtrack except I wouldn't do THAT!

Yeah, their original contract for the game's soundtrack should have included an item demanding delivery of the original, uncompressed samples as well.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Gez

[Murdoch]

A damn shame. I reserved judgement on this one because I just could not see the logic from id/Bethesda's side. If they actually had high quality mixes ready to rumble, why take the extra time out to ruin only some of those mixes while leaving the rest intact? It made absolutely no sense, even by Bethesda's often questionable logic. I would like to think Mick's comments were simply off the cuff and ill-considered, a quick response from a busy guy maybe slightly naive about how social media has a tendency to interpret isolated comments through the filter of "OMG BAD COMPANY DID A BAD AGAIN!" and everything else has just been inferred from there by speculators.

 

They say there's three sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth. I have to say, while it may not be 100% accurate, Marty's letter has a ring of truth to it and seems to fit the reasonably known facts better than what the baseless speculation of the last few weeks does. Mick is clearly a perfectionist, and it sounds like id bent over backwards to give him the time he needed within the confines of the deadlines they themselves faced. Mick might not necessarily see it that way and feel angry about the final result, but unless more information comes to light from a reliable source it seems the bulk of the blame must lie with him. And that is not to say that he was deliberately careless and did not try his best. I think he did. But circumstances got the better of everyone involved.

[D88M3R]

10 hours ago, Bauul said:

 

Because they didn't have to use Gordon for the OST.  If he didn't have the availability, they could (as they did) do it themselves, or hire someone else.  If they'd asked him once the in-game music was delivered "do you have time for the OST?" and he had said "no", then all of this would have been avoided.  But he didn't, he said "yes", and that's where all this went wrong.

Hm, i dont know what to make out of this yet, i guess that the lesson is: Make your game first, then put the release date. "AAA" gaming industry should just stop doing this kind of thing.
If anything, i blame Bethesda because the "big" gaming companies always are the ones ruining everything, i doubt that ID or Mick had much to do with all of this.

7 hours ago, MadGuy said:

Funnily enough many people seems to forget that the game was supposed to release on November 2019, and got delayed one month prior.

 

So, when they were supposed to contact Mick or start making the OST in the first place?

Yeah, that is the hole in the story that i want to know. I would also like to know what they did with all the extra time.
Seems like nowadays they all rush to the release date instead of just doing something first and then put the release date.

[Gez]

4 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

If anything, i blame Bethesda because the "big" gaming companies always are the ones ruining everything, i doubt that ID or Mick had much to do with all of this.

How was Bethesda even involved in this, besides being the publisher? Marty Stratton works at id Software. Mick Gordon was contracted by id Software. It's id Software who made the promise there would be a soundtrack album with the collector's edition.

[seed]

26 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

i doubt that ID or Mick had much to do with all of this.

 

Except they did... everything, actually...

[Eurisko]

Well........... There's two sides to every story. Seems like the whole thing has been poorly handled and for both parties to air it on social media is a bit unprofessional to say the least.

Looks like it's a dead end on both fronts anyway. 

I just hope they get some quality work done from somebody for the DLC.

[scalliano]

Always had a sneaky suspicion that there was more to this story than what we'd been hearing. Sucks, but that's business.

[snapshot]

Quote

Giant reddit wall of text

Good lord what a rambling fucking novel just to say that things soured between the two sides.

[Caffeine Freak]

Ah. I knew it. It was those deadlines. They really are a creative type's worst enemy. They'll getcha every time.

 

I sincerely appreciate Marty's lengthy post, it's a lot more detail than I ever expected us to get, and certainly a hell of a lot more than most game companies would ever dream of revealing.

 

Obviously I'd be interested in hearing the same story from Mick's side. However, even as much as I love and respect the guy, I think there are certain things here that are inescapable. For one, I think he could've said a lot in the past couple weeks to alleviate things more than he has. Marty made a very valid point in the Reddit post about how Mick hasn't said anything to direct unwarranted anger away from Mossholder. When you think about it, Mick is the one person in the world who could've singlehandedly solved that problem, and yet most of the communications from him have consisted of backhanded comments ('I didn't mix those and wouldn't have done that'), with a sprinkling of salt (stating and restating how he doubts he'll work with id again). It's very unprofessional to make statements like those, especially at a time when they're vague and open-ended enough to throw gasoline onto a raging social media fire.

 

Another thing is that Mick missed the deadline, more than once. He was never unaware of the time constraints he was under, he simply underestimated how long this would take. That's on him. Now, by no means am I saying this is an unforgivable error---this is the video game industry, after all---I'm simply saying it was his mistake, one for which he was given grace periods, only to subsequently throw shade at the company who extended him said grace periods. That's not the best way to handle a business fallout. As a creative person, I totally understand how it feels when you perceive your work has been pissed on, tampered with, or pushed out the door in a state you are unhappy with. It's obvious Mick pours his blood and the essence of his soul into these recordings, so I can only imagine how he must feel. Still, I can't respect some of the way he's chosen to deal with this.

 

Regardless, he still has my respect and admiration, and if he and id should ever manage to put this behind them and work together again, I'd be estatic to see what they cook up.

[Rampy470]

1 hour ago, sluggard said:

Good lord what a rambling fucking novel just to say that things soured between the two sides.

Because having the receipts is mandatory if you want to state events and be taken anywhere near seriously.

[snapshot]

On 5/5/2020 at 5:20 PM, Rampy470 said:

Because having the receipts is mandatory if you want to state events and be taken anywhere near seriously.

 

The post is so long he probably had to write it during development to make sure it could be made live a month after the game is released, explains why the game was delayed /s

 

Jokes aside its unfortunate, now I wonder what or if Mick is going to say anything on this.

Edited May 12, 2020 by sluggard

[Super Mighty G]

It seems in the end there is no sole villain in this story like some people are suggesting. This is the nature of collaborations and sometimes things don't go smoothly. It's unfortunate, but finger pointing at this stage will not help anyone. 

[snapshot]

True, reserve judgement until you have the full picture.

[Taurus Daggerknight]

Huh. Seems my assumption was right on the money with what was going on.... 

 

Having handled (smaller scale) productions, I have to say, my sympathy is with iD here. Creative process/ liberties and pride in ones work are all well and good, but they have a time and a place. It's not okay to hold up the rest of the line and delay your work for any reason, much less in the face of being given the benefit of the doubt multiple times. 

 

Again, not saying "Mick is a dummy!" or anything, but I absolutely get the position iD was in, so...yeah, wasn't on the "iD/ Bethesda being EVIL" train at the start of this, and not on it now.

[Skullhacker]

6 hours ago, seed said:

Except they did... everything, actually...

Kinda. All I know is, Mick definitely knew what he was doing, but someone messed up. I don't wanna point fingers at anyone, because I love these guys for making some of the best games ever and I'm a huge fan of Mick Gordon and his music.

[Koko Ricky]

I think maybe Mick got a bit overzealous, perhaps bit off more than he could chew, and that might have made it too hard to deliver on time. I mean there's like a couple hours of music? That's a shitload of work.

[oCrapaCreeper]

Question now is who is gonna do the music for the DLC? Assuming they aren’t just gonna re-use the existing tracks.

 

There is still the unused Into Sandy’s City, and the Doom 3 song which got left out of the official soundtrack but was used in trailers...

[Murdoch]

11 hours ago, D88M3R said:

If anything, i blame Bethesda because the "big" gaming companies always are the ones ruining everything, i doubt that ID or Mick had much to do with all of this.

 

I completely fail to understand how you got "Bethesda done another bad" out of that letter.