Are the demons genuinely evil, or are they just simple creatures with nothing but “KILL! KILL! KILL!” on their mind?

[Maes]

2 hours ago, Boaby Kenobi said:

 

I feel the same about barons and knights. I find the noise they both make when they die to be sad and tragic and I feel guilty putting them down.

 

That's weird, I always found that sound (especially the Baron's) oddly satisfying. Not only for the player who made the kill, but for the Baron itself. It has that kind of ecstatic relief in it, typical of letting a big one while on the porcelain throne.

[vanilla_d00m]

I believe they have to have permission from a much bigger higher power out there first before they do anything.  Much more then satan himself.

 

I mean when they see you in the game, they attack... but wouldn't anybody react the same??  people breaking in you're house to hurt or steal from you.  Doomguy is invading there territory.  That gate should have not been made in e1m8b.wad by those scientists. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by vanilla_d00m

[FractalBeast]

13 hours ago, Rhainfall said:

So basically you’re saying we’re the evil ones for creating wads and mods and pitting doomguy against the demons?

Yes. Sort of.

 

For a moment, imagine that anything fictional "becomes" real somewhere in "the multiverse". Everytime you make a .wad that forks off the typical Doom plot, you force a multiplanetary human civilization to suffer through a demonic invasion with a kill count in the billions.

[ketmar]

8 hours ago, FractalBeast said:

For a moment, imagine that anything fictional "becomes" real somewhere in "the multiverse". Everytime you make a .wad that forks off the typical Doom plot, you force a multiplanetary human civilization to suffer through a demonic invasion with a kill count in the billions.

i almost want to make a wad now.

[Roebloz]

In my opinion I think the demons seem to be organized, but not perfectly either. Pinkies/Spectres and Cacodemons are clearly here to feed on humans, but they don't seem to be doing it for evil; It's just the principle of the food chain, and humans are lower than them in it. I think the main reason why the demons infight, but not between each other is because while they are all violent towards mankind, they probably have different goals from each other and most demons probably only "tolerate" each other so when they get an occasion to fight their neighbors, they take it with no hesitiation. (i dunno how to spell that word lol) Why don't they fight back against Archviles or Pain Elementals you might ask? Well for the Pain Elementals, obviously the demon sees that the Lost Soul that has been spitted out as the offender, and thus they are pretty stupid on that part since they don't connect the dots on who spawned said Lost Soul. As for why they don't infight with Archviles, I have no clue.

[FractalBeast]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

i almost want to make a wad now.

Some kind of transdimensional rage-against-the-heavens where Doomguy goes on a gnostic rampage to kill the extraplanar demiurge god(s) that created his universe of suffering?

[Chezza]

I think it varies based on the Demons we speak of and the level of intelligence.

 

I suppose what would convince me they are truly evil is whether the Demons are the ones that impale living people, fuses their souls / faces into a wall, decorates their lairs with the dead and dying people. All the props in Doom suggest evil intentions. Meanwhile the demons behavior themselves look mostly raged and instinctive.

 

It's difficult to classify if the more intelligent demons such as Archviles are in fact evil. They could be killing enemies as any soldier would in their army. It tends to act as a support role with healing. But maybe it does enjoy causing suffering?

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Chezza

[Sir Hattington]

I believe most of the demons are intelligent and have free will, but others like the pinkies and all the possessed are more animal like.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Sir Hattington

[xvertigox]

I definitely see them as being genuinely evil. You don't build ornate structures out of gore and viscera due to blind rage. I do think lesser demons (Former Humans, Imps Pinkies, Revs) are running on instinct but higher demons (Hell Knights, Barons, Mancs, Arachnotrons AVs, Cyber, SMM, IoS) are consciously being evil. I don't know why but I view cacos and PEs to be animals in Hell separate to the lesser/higher demons.

[Maes]

3 hours ago, xvertigox said:

You don't build ornate structures out of gore and viscera due to blind rage.

Maybe that's their problem. If they used more durable materials, maybe they wouldn't have to re-decorate so often. Maybe somebody needs to point them to IKEA or something, then maybe they'll chill out some.

[NonniR]

Interesting question. I tend to agree with the idea that some species of demons are more consciously aware while some are more animalistic (the Pinky demon being a good example of the latter). 

 

However, I do think they are not as conscious of morality as humanity. I.e Hell Knights, Barons and the upper echelons of the demon hierarchy might have some form of intelligence but I don't think it extends to moral principles or values. The only exceptions might be the IoS, Cyberdemons and Spider Mastermind who I believe might morally recognize that killing billions is "evil" but they probably have a apathetic or outright hostile outlook on humanity to begin with so they don't really care.

 

Furthermore, the possibility of kindness is I believe impossible for these demons since they don't seem to need to reproduce in the traditional way of getting a partner and childbirth (as far as I know anyway). The removal of procreation and birth removes a huge portion of potential kindness and caring from their psychological makeup which then would reflect in their attitude and actions towards others (infighting and fighting as examples of that).

 

I can't imagine a Cyberdemon sparing a female soldier where as a Nazi potentially might if that female soldier reminded him of his childhood friend/mother/sister etc.

[Maes]

16 hours ago, NonniR said:

I can't imagine a Cyberdemon sparing a female soldier where as a Nazi potentially might if that female soldier reminded him of his childhood friend/mother/sister etc.

 

Maybe if said female soldier was cosplaying as a female Cyberdemon (or the very least, had some visible implants, especially arm and leg).

[HQDefault]

I feel like the question here is "Are Demons sentient beings that are aware of their wrongdoings, or are they just really violent animals"

 

To that end I think it depends.

Former humans definitely fall on the stupid end of the spectrum. So they're more just the brainless killing variety.

Pinkies are basically big fuckoff dogs with arms, so same there.

Imps are a little smarter. They seem to pursue ritualistic practices, but aren't very sophisticated. Same goes for Pain Elementals.

I like to imagine Cacodemons are the least evil. They're more like domesticated flying things, they've just been trained to fight. I bet if you found a baby one and gave it food it would be totally friendly.

 

Outside of that, yeah, all evil.

Hell Knights/Barons are supposed to be nobility, and depending on the interpretation can even be somewhat classy when they're not trying to kill you.

Cyberdemons have an obvious dominance complex, and clearly like to display just how dangerous they are.

The Spider Mastermind is... well... that's kind of obvious.

Arachnotrons are of a similar breed to the Mastermind, so them to.

 

The only one that's kinda fuzzy is the Mancubus. They always struck me as really not wanting to be here. They're so chubby that they'd rather just sit in hell and be lazy all day, but they also have cannons for arms, so they really have nothing better to do than kill something.

[Maes]

As Robert Heinlein once wrote, morality is relative. But, since relative morality would get you nowhere in terms of fantasy/adventure worlds, the concept of absolute morality and thus absolute good/evil definitions exist in places like D&D, literature, games etc.

 

If they didn't, then e.g. how could a  "Smite Evil" kind of spell exist and be used, if both sides considered each other to be "evil"?

Edited July 3, 2020 by Maes

[ketmar]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:50 AM, xvertigox said:

I definitely see them as being genuinely evil. You don't build ornate structures out of gore and viscera due to blind rage.

biomechanical tech may look scary and disgusting, but it is not necessarily "evil". it may be a form of art, like our pictures of animals, only created with a different technology. there are no evidences that they even using alive creatures for that (it is only a speculation; they may use dead bodies and artificial flesh for their art after all). definitely not something human being will do, but then, some people have stuffed animals, and we aren't considering such people "evil".

[mlgmarck]

Doom guy doesn´t respect the quarantine, demons just want to send him home.

[CacoMaster64]

I think Demons just want Doomguy dead.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

1 hour ago, Some Random Doom Noob said:

I think Demons just want Doomguy dead.

Everybody wants Doomguy dead.

[NonniR]

On 7/3/2020 at 3:34 PM, Maes said:

 

Maybe if said female soldier was cosplaying as a female Cyberdemon (or the very least, had some visible implants, especially arm and leg).

 

It might be possible. Though that level of cosplay would have to be quite extensive (not to mention unlikely to fool a CD). I could imagine that a Cyberdemon might spare said female soldier if she had similar wounds or implants as him. A random merciful act on a whim. That might be kind of cool to see honestly.

Edited July 7, 2020 by NonniR

[Doom-X-Machina]

Nah, they just hangry.

I get pretty unreasonable when I'm waiting on a meal too... especially one that shoots at me.