Are Demons Human?

[Chip]

The Revenant, Arch-vile, Barons, and Hell Knights are too tall to be human. And, the Spider-mastermind/arachnotrons brains are too large. Muncubi are way too fat. If you've seen the amazing 2005 movie, the humans appear to get taller, although I'm 10000000000000000000000000000% positive that the movie is not canon (thank god!) Can someone explain?

 

Edit: Not from the DOOM 2016 - DOOM Eternal timeline, I meant in the O.G. DOOMS 

Edited April 23, 2020 by LiT_gam3r

[Deleted_Account]

Yes. They used to be human.

[fufu]

Some of them are and some of them aren't.

[Impie]

the only ones stated as former human in the documentation are the former humans possessed by demonic entities. the rest you can pretend one way or the other.

[WowozuelaSpammer]

The only demons that were humans are the Former Humans/Zombieman/Troopers and the Former Sergeants/Shotgunners, the rest are fleshy scum from the deepest pits of hell

[tgawt]

i think besides from the former humans revenants are the only ones who used to be humans. unless im getting confused by lore from 2016

[Faceman2000]

No John, you are the demons.

 

@tgawt That’s 2016 lore. The Doom 2 manual says they’re the skeletons of dead demons and in Doom 3 they’re demons with transparent skin.

[spineapple tea]

I've always thought the imp was human, or at least used to be. 

[fufu]

Spoiler

Also, Olivia Pierce turns into a spiderdemon at the end of doom 2016

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Danzer

[Faceman2000]

8 minutes ago, Danzer said:

  Hide contents

Also, Olivia Pierce turns into a spiderdemon at the end of doom 2016

 

Does she? Or does she die and then the Spiderdemon emerges? It wasn’t really clear to me.

[DuckReconMajor]

I'd always heard in more literal Christian etc. doctrine that angels are not former humans, they're different beings entirely.

I assumed it was the same for demons.

But I agree with others that it's probably not a hard line in Doom canon.

[Murdoch]

Given that as of Doom Eternal, the new games are considered to part of the same cannon as the original games, then yes Demons are - or at least were - human. They are tortured until they completely lose it and then whatever is left gets used to create demons. I cannot recall the exact wording of the Codex entry but that's the general gist of it.

The betrayer's son was bought back as the Icon of Sin and Olivia Pierce was presumably transformed into the Spider Mastermind, so the size difference is apparently no barrier. Perhaps the human is only raw material and the resulting demon as a sentient entity no longer "is" one individual, twisted human soul. One Mancubus might represent like eight people for example.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Murdoch

[dr_st]

Spoiler

In Soviet Russia, the Spiderdemon turns into Olivia Pierce.

 

[Tetzlaff]

No. Demons descend from the fallen angels that were excluded from heaven. And angels were there before the creation of mankind.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Tetzlaff

[fufu]

I forgot that in doom 3 both kelly and betruger also turns into demons.

 

And john from that weird fanfic was the demons all along.

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Danzer

[snapshot]

It goes both ways

Edited April 23, 2020 by sluggard

[NoXion]

Some of them used to be human, but not any more.

I don't think size or shape is necessarily a consideration. Remember that Hell can twist and corrupt things for its own purposes.

[Solmyr]

They are demons and also aliens because they aren't native to our universe. Former Humans doesn't count since the only non human aspects are their soul and mind, the only ones who probably were human are the Possessed type enemies, Unwilling, maybe the Lost Soul, deffinitely Commando variants from Doom 3, Olivia Pierce and Malcolm Betruguer.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Solmyr

[Phobos Anomaly]

Spoiler

This is established to be the canon origin of Demons in Doom Eternal

 

So, there's that.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Phobos Anomaly

[Casketkrusher]

I think Revenants we're humans too, they're human skeletons with a demonic rocket launcher. 

[Cruduxy Pegg]

No revenants aren't humans.

"Revenant: Apparently when a demon dies, they pick him up, dust him off, wire him some combat gear, and send him back into battle. No rest for the wicked, eh? You wish your missiles did what his can do." - Doom 2 Manual

[idbeholdME]

The only humans are the possessed ones, so Zombieman, Shotgun Guy and Heavy Weapon Dude.

[Roebloz]

In Doom 2016 Revenants are issued from an experiment on humans that the UAC did. So gotta add those boners to the former humans i guess.

[Eurisko]

I would have to say no with the obvious expiation of the 'Former Soldier, sergeant and heavy weapon dude. Those guys ion my opinion are the 'Pawns of hell" The rest?....... They ARE from hell born and bred.

[Deleted_Account]

The lore states that after the soul is extracted from the human body, the husk mutates into a demon.

[Gokuma]

I think some were evil humans and humanoids and some spawned as demons in the first place.

[Gez]

On jeudi 23 avril 2020 at 5:49 AM, Murdoch said:

Given that as of Doom Eternal, the new games are considered to part of the same cannon as the original games, then yes Demons are - or at least were - human. They are tortured until they completely lose it and then whatever is left gets used to create demons. I cannot recall the exact wording of the Codex entry but that's the general gist of it.

On the other hand, it's hinted that they didn't only attack humans. There's a bit where the gargoyles are said to be natives to whatever Sentinel world, I'm taking that to mean that they were natives of this world, and been turned into winged demons.

 

There are plenty of races of demons, and sometimes several different races fit the same type -- the mancubus in 2016 looks like it's a cousin of the cacodemon, the mancubus in Eternal is much closer to the classic manc with its ogre-like head. As if different creatures were turned into the same template.

[holaareola]

On 4/23/2020 at 4:49 AM, Murdoch said:

Given that as of Doom Eternal, the new games are considered to part of the same cannon as the original games, then yes Demons are - or at least were - human. They are tortured until they completely lose it and then whatever is left gets used to create demons. I cannot recall the exact wording of the Codex entry but that's the general gist of it.

The betrayer's son was bought back as the Icon of Sin and Olivia Pierce was presumably transformed into the Spider Mastermind, so the size difference is apparently no barrier. Perhaps the human is only raw material and the resulting demon as a sentient entity no longer "is" one individual, twisted human soul. One Mancubus might represent like eight people for example.

Since Eternal bolts on a load lore retroactively to a series of games where it was never a concern because.... because? Perhaps because lore is the done thing now for franchises where online discussion is an extension of marketing and likely also for mechanical reasons to do with escaping the mars/earth/hell settings, I think we can safely ignore it in discussions about the original games.

 

I'm with those that said the former humans are the former humans. The rest are demons, and I'm here because of the Dooms with great gameplay and 3 screens of exposition, not the one with great gameplay and innumerable pages of turgid nigh-high-fantasy dribble.  I think Doom Eternal is fantastic, don't get me wrong.

Edited April 24, 2020 by holaareola

[Murdoch]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

On the other hand, it's hinted that they didn't only attack humans. There's a bit where the gargoyles are said to be natives to whatever Sentinel world, I'm taking that to mean that they were natives of this world, and been turned into winged demons.

 

There are plenty of races of demons, and sometimes several different races fit the same type -- the mancubus in 2016 looks like it's a cousin of the cacodemon, the mancubus in Eternal is much closer to the classic manc with its ogre-like head. As if different creatures were turned into the same template.

 

Yes good point, that would make sense.

 

2 hours ago, holaareola said:

I think we can safely ignore it in discussions about the original games.

 

A case could be made for that. In which case yes based on the lore of the original games, such as it is, only the zombieman, sarge and chaingunner were human and are not really demons at all. They are more accurately called zombies. The rest can be called demons of whom the exact method of creation is not known.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Holy necrobump, Batman!

 

Nah, no demons are human. Zombies are zombies.