Was Doom 2016 Better Than Doom Eternal?

[Foebane72]

 

I'm siding with Yahtzee and Doom 2016 on this, Doom Eternal is clearly divisive and is definitely bloatware.

 

[igg]

Doom Eternal: Better graphics, wonderful art direction, fresh gameplay ideas, lots of stuff to learn, better weapons (e. g. meat hook), more unique levels.

 

Doom 2016: Better story, more fun.

 

Looks almost like Doom 2 vs Doom 1 to me.

[seed]

They both have their strengths and weaknesses, it's more or less like the Doom 1 vs Doom 2 enigma.

 

Eternal has better art, improved combat, and more interesting, diverse levels than 2016 had. 2016 was, and still is, great, but it gets far more repetitive than Eternal ever does. I'd say Eternal is the better game, but since they're both solid anyway, it's more like a matter of preference than anything.

[BarabaszEnthusiast]

Both games are great. They are just different kind of fun. The old one is fast but sophisticated dance and the new one feels like a workout.

[holaareola]

My opinion is that the core of Doom Eternal is a big improvement over 2016.  Everything else was a step down: the Fortress of Boredom, the story, the dogshit lore with its excruciating grasps at high-fantasy tone, the addition of even more bloody upgrades (and making them near-compulsory for success). 

 

Thankfully, I'm here for the gameplay and the levels, and for me it delivers on both of those fronts in bloody buckets.  I'm one of those weirdos that appreciates the platforming as a palate cleanser too.  Due to the greater environment scale, player mobility, difficulty and enemy roster it never felt as samey as Doom 2016's arena-corridor-arena setup, even while being pretty much that.

[Arbys550]

Personally I think Doom Eternal is a massive improvement on Doom 2016 in every way possible. I can't think of anything I liked more in Doom 2016 than in Doom Eternal. Doom 2016 I thought was pretty damn boring actually, and Doom Eternal rectifies that with more varied gameplay and the use of more strategic elements. Not to mention the massively upgraded enemy roster. Also greatly improved level design, in my opinion.

 

After watching the video: I don't really care how impactful how Doom 2016 was honestly. The only thing that factors into my enjoyment of a game is the game itself, not its impact on the industry. Yes Doom Eternal has more cutscenes, but um... you can skip them? Not sure why he's arguing that point. You can't skip the 2016 cutscene. The "unplug your brain and kill demons" is what I didn't like about 2016. That being said, I disagreed with the Doom Eternal guy when he said Doom Eternal was better simply because of it being more.

 

Although I do slightly agree with the fact that Eternal funnels you into a certain way of playing, I think people over-exaggerate the degree to which this is true. You still have a lot of freedom when deciding what to kill enemies with. Lot's of people treat it as if each demon needed a certain weapon to kill it, which simply isn't true. I disagree with the 2016 guy when he argues about Eternal being more like deathmatch arenas. That argument really had me scratching my head and wondering what the hell he's talking about. Doom 2016 was far more deathmatch arena-y than Eternal as far as I remember.

 

Also I disagree and I've always disagreed with the notion that Doom is all about "running up to enemies and killing them with a super shotgun." Yes, combat is a major part of the Doom franchise, but the classic dooms also had exploration, secrets, and some minor platforming. By the way, I'm not faulting Doom 2016 at all by saying it's not true to the originals. I'm not one of those people that dislikes a game because it's not "the true doom experience." I'm simply disagreeing with the 2016 guy's statement.

 

Well there's my reaction to the video. I know a lot of people like 2016 but personally I thought Eternal was better in every way.

[Deleted_Account]

Doom Eternal took everything I loved about Doom 2016 and pumped massive doses of adrenaline into it.They're both tremendous games! Doom Eternal is the way to go now and I am very happy with that.

[hybridial]

I don't have a tonne to add, I mostly agree with @seed's post. 

 

But I feel the difference between 2016 and Eternal is that with Eternal, they had a much better handle on how best the content of the game can compliment the gameplay. 2016 had well designed combat that was fresh but, I do not think the levels were particularly well designed, to me it felt like they had no idea beyond using methods from other games instead of thinking what suited their new gameplay system the most, so fresh gameplay, but stale levels. Eternal very much addresses all of that. 

[Zemini]

Where each game wins

 

D2k16:  Less convoluted story.

-More multiplayer content at launch

-Better Barons of Hell

-Baalgar Demon

-Gauss Rifle

 

Doom Eternal:  Everything Else

Edited April 27, 2020 by Zemini

[Redneckerz]

2 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

I'm siding with Yahtzee and Doom 2016 on this, Doom Eternal is clearly divisive and is definitely bloatware.

But what do you think, generally? I think a lot of folks know Yahtzee and all that, but if i were to repost one of his things, i would add my own notes to it.

 

Bloatware, really? You mean every game released this generation that needs 50+ GB?

 

Because most games have moved over to a Physically Based Rendering Pipeline, asset creation complexity has also increased. As early as the last generation studios experimented with procedural textures to retain texture file sizes small.

 

Doom Eternal is definitely a product of its generation. By dropping megatexture, more detail could be pushed then what would be possible in megatexture (Or it would come at a size penalty cost that would be unreasonable even for the current generation of hardware).

 

2016 and Eternal are both titles that have their own strengths and minuses. One could argue that Eternal does not try too much new things over 2016, on the other, how much new mechanics does a DOOM title need?

 

The general consensus, give or take, is that even the most fair critic will assess that Eternal is a pretty good game, from a purely objective point of view.

[FNSG]

no it wasn't better

[D88M3R]

Hard to say, both have the same virtues and flaws but everything in Eternal is cranked to 11, i have mixed feelings about both but i would say i enjoyed Eternal a little more because it was harder and a little more varied. I dont feel like any of them is a particulary great game though.

Edited April 27, 2020 by D88M3R

[PeterMoro]

I love Eternal but i prefer 2016. Just had an easier to follow story. I always knew where i was and why. In Eternal i didn't where the fuck i was and what i was supposed to do there except kill a bunch of demons. Yeah i know, I should read all those collectable pages which explain the back story. Fuck that.

[Murdoch]

Tough one. Eternal had a number of small but glaring flaws that really grated on me. But the good was REALLY good. Doom 2016 is more consistent I suppose.

[Vic Vos]

Quote

Doom 2016: ~77 GB
Doom Eternal: 42 GB

6 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

Doom Eternal is definitely bloatware.

Fucking

w h a t

Edited April 28, 2020 by Vic Vos

[rustygizzard]

do you even know what bloatware means? 

[Deimos]

3 hours ago, Vic Vos said:

Fucking

w h a t

2016 was bigger because snap map and multiplayer were different applications and had lots of content iirc, also the "bloat" people usually talk about is the flow of the game sometimes suffering from tactical restrictions like monsters feeling like bullet sponges if not approached with the right technique and the over reliance on cooldowns you have to keep track of. But maybe i'm wrong...
Like adding layers  to a game that maybe didn't need as much to succeed

Edited April 28, 2020 by Deimos

[ReaperAA]

8 hours ago, Vic Vos said:

Fucking

w h a t

 

I believe he meant the number of items and stuff the game has, not the size of game in GB.

 

Now I have yet to play Eternal myself but I think I might like it more than Doom 2016. In 2016, the levels got stale towards the end, mostly due to just having 2 types of themes (i.e techbase and that boring looking hell). Eternal looks much more varied in its environments and also in it encounters. Hell also looks much more interesting. The equipments (i.e weapon mods and runes) also seem much more balanced in Eternal.

 

However, Doom 2016 had more "consistent" visuals. It also had Snapmap for custom maps. And finally, Doom 2016 will be remembered as the more impressive game given how unexpectedly successful it turned out to be after being in development hell for nearly a decade and thus bringing the franchise in the mainstream landscape again.

Edited April 28, 2020 by ReaperAA

[Foebane72]

15 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

I believe he meant the number of items and stuff the game has, not the size of game in GB.

 

I do mean that, yes. When Yahtzee called Doom Eternal bloatware, he meant the same thing.

 

[Taurus Daggerknight]

There were exactly two sections in the entire adventure of Eternal that had me super frustrated. Other than those, everything about it was a massive improvement IMO. The guns, the shooting mechanics, the feedback, the movement....

 

Here's something I don't get about Yahtzee's angst over Eternal; the enemy design. Yeah, I know, they are all throw back in a big way, but that... kind of improved them. Enemies now have more distinct character, and LOOK like angry demons, as opposed to....whatever the hell the 2016 Mancubus was. I guess the only ones I prefer from 2016 are the Revenent and the Baron's of Hell, but that's it. 

 

Also going to point out that a lot of "bloat feeling" tends to come from the learning curve issue. Once you get a grip on the systems, it stops being "bloat" and flows pretty well. At least in my experience.... 

[ZALGO]

46 minutes ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

There were exactly two sections in the entire adventure of Eternal that had me super frustrated. Other than those, everything about it was a massive improvement IMO. The guns, the shooting mechanics, the feedback, the movement....

 

Here's something I don't get about Yahtzee's angst over Eternal; the enemy design. Yeah, I know, they are all throw back in a big way, but that... kind of improved them. Enemies now have more distinct character, and LOOK like angry demons, as opposed to....whatever the hell the 2016 Mancubus was. I guess the only ones I prefer from 2016 are the Revenent and the Baron's of Hell, but that's it. 

 

Also going to point out that a lot of "bloat feeling" tends to come from the learning curve issue. Once you get a grip on the systems, it stops being "bloat" and flows pretty well. At least in my experience.... 

 

 

Seriously... I love Doom 2016 but my largest complaint in that game was whatever the hell they did with the Mancubus. I was never a fan of the weird armored cyclops look they gave him (Cyber looks even worse with that oculus rift thing on his head). Eternal's mancubi look a lot better to me and I love the Cyber Mancubus design compared to the 2016 variant.

 

Will agree though that I am not a fan of the Revenent design in Eternal.... 2016's revenent looked way closer to the original then Eternal's.

[NoXion]

Doom Eternal is such an expansive game relative to Doom 2016, that it almost feels unfair to compare them. But at the same time, Doom Eternal's expansive nature comes from building an impressive edifice upon the rock-solid foundation that 2016 laid down, without which there would be no Eternal.

Technically Eternal is the better game. It loads so fast and runs so smooth, despite having bigger levels and better graphics. Unfortunately despite being delayed, there are a handful of features that feel rushed, for example Lost Souls are so completely broken that they're barely a threat, assuming they haven't managed to clip outside the play area or catch themselves in a loop somewhere on the level geometry.

Visually both games are stunning, but Eternal has a greater variety in environments. The monster design in 2016 was cool, I'm not averse to a more alien take on the aesthetics of the demons, but I definitely prefer the more comic-book style of Doom Eternal's demons. So many games have gone for the gritty look these past two decades that it's become a very generic aesthetic, and thus the appearance of the demons makes DE stand out, without going full-tilt cartoonish like Fortnite, or faux-retro like Minecraft.

 

All the new gameplay stuff is overwhelming at first, and I'm not convinced that the devs hit upon the best way of teaching them to the player, but it is definitely worth it.

Overall I'd say Doom Eternal is the better game, but in the same way that a burger is better when it comes with fries and a drink.

[igg]

18 hours ago, NoXion said:

Unfortunately despite being delayed, there are a handful of features that feel rushed, for example Lost Souls are so completely broken that they're barely a threat, assuming they haven't managed to clip outside the play area or catch themselves in a loop somewhere on the level geometry.
 

When they got stuck for the first time I started searching for a secret behind the wall because I thought some enemies were in a hidden area. After a while I moved on and noticed this regularly happens during lost soul encounters. I'm really curious what happened to the lost seals programming...

[Arbys550]

Hugo Martin said in an interview that the Lost Souls get stuck in walls on purpose. They were trying to emulate the behavior of the original game.

[NoXion]

2 hours ago, Arbys550 said:

Hugo Martin said in an interview that the Lost Souls get stuck in walls on purpose. They were trying to emulate the behavior of the original game.

Do you recall which interview?

[Gifty]

Doom 2016 is more Perfect. Doom Eternal is more Better. Sequels are hard to quantify.

[Szymanski]

I enjoyed 2016 more, neither feel like a finished game. Revenants are worthless in both.

[Arbys550]

2 hours ago, NoXion said:

Do you recall which interview?

 No it was just a joke. Sorry.

[NoXion]

Just now, Arbys550 said:

 No it was just a joke. Sorry.

That's OK. I was hoping there was an interview with the Doom Eternal devs that I missed.

[thewormofautumn]

Yeah there's no winner for me.

 

• I LOVE the bigger levels of Eternal, but conversely it becomes harder to just jump in and have a quick play
• Eternal is much more optimised, it's ridiculous. Incredible.
• DOOM had the better story. Eternal was a bit silly, and I don't like the idea of the Marine no longer being a pure human, instead of some demigod. Plus, we need more HELL. Lots more. 
• Flame Belch, Freeze Bomb and Meathook are amazing, but add complexity which is hard to manage in the heat of battle.
• The Gauss needs to return. No negotiation. Gauss >>>>>>>> Ballista
• Chainsaw was more fun in DOOM. When something becomes essential (Eternal) it loses it's desire. IN addition, 1 and 3 ammo enemies is stupid.
• Monster variation in Eternal is much better. But I also prefer DOOM's Barons. And even the Mancubus.
• DOOM was raw, Eternal was refined. I tend to prefer the guttural and raw interpretations of anything, but the refinements in Eternal make up for the disparity.
• Dash is a great addition. I actually wouldn't mind some more "powers" like that (see Rage 2)
• Puzzle platforming outside of combat (intra-level) is lame. Absolutely lame. Nerf this stuff in the next game.
• More levels like Super Gore nest with loads of arena varieties.
• No more Rune Trials! Thanks Eternal!!

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by thewormofautumn