Using deh files in dos?

[ZeMystic]

I want be a dumbass purist and play Doom II: The Way ID Did through dosbox on the original doom2.exe.

One small issue. D2TWID uses a .deh file.

Now as far as I'm aware, doom2.exe doesn't use deh files.

How would I go about, and doing this.

 

I only want to use Dos, don't tell me to use another sourceport because that won't be helpful.

[Maes]

Use DEHACKED.EXE?

[Redneckerz]

16 minutes ago, ZeMystic said:

I want be a dumbass purist and play Doom II: The Way ID Did through dosbox on the original doom2.exe.

One small issue. D2TWID uses a .deh file.

Now as far as I'm aware, doom2.exe doesn't use deh files.

How would I go about, and doing this.

• See this first.
• If you still want to continue the purist's way, then you will need to manually merge the deh patch to a copy of the Doom executable. This copy is generated by DeHackEd and is called DoomHack. See this rather excellent tutorial on how to use DeHackEd. As DeHackEd is a DOS program, you will have to run this in DOSBox.

16 minutes ago, ZeMystic said:

I only want to use Dos, don't tell me to use another sourceport because that won't be helpful.

I know you are saying this, but the closest Vanilla equivalent that will circumvent you having to go through all these steps is Chocolate Doom, where loading a deh file can be done in a commandline argument (Something like deh -funny.deh.) Chocolate also supports merging thereby circumventing the process you will have to do using DeHackEd. See for an example The Sky May Be page.

[andrewj]

51 minutes ago, ZeMystic said:

One small issue. D2TWID uses a .deh file.

It probably only uses it to change the level names.  If you don't care about that, then just play the wad without it.

[ZeMystic]

Just now, andrewj said:

It probably only uses it to change the level names.  If you don't care about that, then just play the wad without it.

Nope. Changes some monsters in the secret levels, otherwise i'd ignore it

[andrewj]

I see, I thought those wads were fairly "pure" vanilla.

Edited April 30, 2020 by andrewj

[ZeMystic]

Just now, andrewj said:

I see, I thought those wads were fairly "pure" vanilla.

Yeah, dtwid was completely vanilla, d2twid just wanted to give a wink and a nod at commander keen.

[ZeMystic]

Update got it to work through DeHacked, thank you so much.

 

Fun Fact

Save means save the patch.

In order to mod the .exe use w :)

 

[P41R47]

i think that Dtwid 2 has new textures on the secret maps, so you will also need deutex to merge the new textures onto the doomhacked.exe

[magicsofa]

1 hour ago, ZeMystic said:

I only want to use Dos, don't tell me to use another sourceport because that won't be helpful.

DosBox is not DOS, so clearly you're not getting the real experience :P

[Maes]

25 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

DosBox is not DOS, so clearly you're not getting the real experience :P

 

And TBQH, the only extra part of the original experience he gets over Chocolate, is all this Dehacked and DEUTEX cruft, which are outside of the main game. Just be glad that the PWAD you're using didn't also include new sprites...

Edited April 30, 2020 by Maes

[Senor500]

57 minutes ago, Maes said:

 

And TBQH, the only extra part of the original experience he gets over Chocolate, is all this Dehacked and DEUTEX cruft, which are outside of the main game. Just be glad that the PWAD you're using didn't also include new sprites...

It does include new sprites actually, I hope nothing goes wrong on that front.

[DuckReconMajor]

Are there a lot of early wads like Cleimos that bundled in an executable to do pre-DeHackEd changes?

I did just learn of the deh patch, hopefully any other wads like that have a .deh made for them.

[Maes]

1 hour ago, Senor500 said:

It does include new sprites actually, I hope nothing goes wrong on that front.

 

Tripple bummer then.

 

I guess just be glad that it's a modern PWAD using the final version of the DEHACKED then? Because messing around with PWADs that were designed for e.g. v1.666 or earlier, for a similarly old DEHACKED with non-text DEH files to boot are even more "fun". TBQH those are problematic to use even with source ports. I'm not sure if an automated upgrate/migration path through later versions of DEHACKED even existed for those, or you had to recreate every setting in the latest version by hand.

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Maes

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, DuckReconMajor said:

Are there a lot of early wads like Cleimos that bundled in an executable to do pre-DeHackEd changes?

They actually didn't do any pre-Dehacked changes - What they did was include a Doom executable with the DeHackEd patch merged in, using the full version of doom or doom2.exe. Obviously that's illegal.

 

You could actually circumvent this by distributing the shareware executable merged in with the patch, but i remember that Ty didn't like this very much + you still are dealing with shareware limits and restrictions.

 

1 hour ago, DuckReconMajor said:

I did just learn of the deh patch, hopefully any other wads like that have a .deh made for them.

Sparky of KISS Software did do a lot of work changing a significant lot of releases and re-releasing them with a seperate patch and some instructions how to do the merging yourself. Stuff like ChrisWAD or Boom: Shadow of the Zedix originally included illegal copies of the full version of the executable.

 

Ed The Bat has done a ton of patches aswell, but they are mostly for ZDoom.

15 minutes ago, Maes said:

 

Tripple bummer then.

 

I guess just be glad that it's a modern PWAD using the final version of the DEHACKED then? Because messing around with PWADs that were designed for e.g. v1.666 or earlier, for a similarly old DEHACKED with non-text DEH files to boot are even more "fun". TBQH those are problematic to use even with source ports. I'm not sure if an automated upgrate/migration path through later versions of DEHACKED even existed for those, or you had to recreate every setting in the latest version by hand.

 

Tell me about it. I am literally using some of your prior research on these problematic WADS (usually it appears for an episode only, but then you also have your famous pet peeve OTTAWAU) to compile a list of significant WADS/episode that either did some installer fuckery or require the user to merge the .deh into a copy of the Doom executable (Using DoomHack). Just so people have some instructions online what Dehacked/DeusF expect and what the resultant executable should be.

 

Funny enough - this practice also carried over to Heretic, albeit the WADS that use this method (modifiying the exe, appending via DeusF) is limited to only a handful.

[chungy]

40 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

You could actually circumvent this by distributing the shareware executable merged in with the patch, but i remember that Ty didn't like this very much + you still are dealing with shareware limits and restrictions.

 

Mind, there is no such thing as "the shareware executable" -- the exe was identical between shareware, Doom Registered, and Doom 2. It just changed behavior depending on if it loaded doom1.wad, doom.wad, or doom2.wad.

[Redneckerz]

3 minutes ago, chungy said:

 

Mind, there is no such thing as "the shareware executable" -- the exe was identical between shareware, Doom Registered, and Doom 2. It just changed behavior depending on if it loaded doom1.wad, doom.wad, or doom2.wad.

If only we had a corrective marker for every sub-statement made. This forum would not exist. :P

 

(You are right obviously. Its identical.)

[ZeMystic]

15 hours ago, magicsofa said:

DosBox is not DOS, so clearly you're not getting the real experience :P

Closest I can with out shilling out money for a 486* :P

Edited May 1, 2020 by ZeMystic

[dr_st]

The vanilla executables look terrible on modern LCDs, even with whatever filters DOSBox can apply. When I play in DOSBox nowadays, I try to use MBF in high-resolution mode.

[SilverMiner]

For the best DOS experience I would recommend MBF 2.04 and not the vanilla

[andrewj]

7 hours ago, ZeMystic said:

Closest I can with out shilling out money for a 486

You could run FreeDOS inside QEMU or another hardware emulator, for slightly more street cred :)

[Redneckerz]

3 hours ago, SilverMiner said:

For the best DOS experience I would recommend MBF 2.04 and not the vanilla

On that note:

• This post lists most of the latest DOS ports available, including Eternity Engine Eternity got some unofficial DOS releases, so it might just well be the most updated. VaVoom 1.17 is incorrectly listed there as it links to 1.26. Supposely its pretty advanced with colored dynamic lights and what not. The latest Legacy 1.48.1 also still can be compiled for DOS.
• And then there is this DoomWorld thread:

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Redneckerz
1, not 2.

[SilverMiner]

@Redneckerz

I hear about Legacy 1.48.2 for first time.

Where can I get it (source code maybe) ?

[Redneckerz]

2 hours ago, SilverMiner said:

@Redneckerz

I hear about Legacy 1.48.2 for first time.

Where can I get it (source code maybe) ?

Whops, its 1.48.1, not 2. :O - Its here.

[Maes]

On 4/30/2020 at 9:02 PM, chungy said:

 

Mind, there is no such thing as "the shareware executable" -- the exe was identical between shareware, Doom Registered, and Doom 2. It just changed behavior depending on if it loaded doom1.wad, doom.wad, or doom2.wad.

 

If you really want to nitpick, it might not have been identical in the pre-Doom II (v1.666) days. Hell, I think there wasn't even a unified Doom 1/Doom 2 executable until v1.9.