a most unusual occurrence on this very day over at the doomwiki

[Edward850]

16 minutes ago, Xymph said:

The primary reason why I haven't spent any effort on Doom64 is that, as a PC gamer, I have little knowledge about console versions, and none about '64. So I don't even know where to get the original IWAD which, as a commercial release (in a ROM?), I presume isn't readily available online. But that too is just an assumption.

Did you miss the official rerelease? You know, done by Nightdive? 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1148590/DOOM_64/

I feel so hurt, Xymph. D:

Edited May 28, 2020 by Edward850

[Xymph]

2 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Did you miss the official rerelease? You know, done by Nightdive? 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1148590/DOOM_64/

I feel so hurt, Xymph. D:

Didn't miss the article as such (even made a small fix to it ;) ) but didn't really digest the information or do anything more with it. There aren't enough cycles in my days already, nothing personal. :)

It still doesn't help me understand the 64/64EX situation (consider me clueless) or get access to relevant IWAD(s?), though.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Xymph

[LucidLocomotive]

8 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Hey @LucidLocomotive, it is poor etiquette to make 2 posts in a row asking the same question, and generally 2 or more posts in a row. You can group all questions into the same post, quote multiple people, and even edit existing posts. Thank you in advance.

 

As for your question:

There are no rocket launchers.

whoops, sorry. thanks for the tip. I’m new to message boards other than reddit. also thanks for the level info, that is good to know. 

[Edward850]

10 hours ago, Xymph said:

It still doesn't help me understand the 64/64EX situation (consider me clueless) or get access to relevant IWAD(s?), though.

Grab Doom64 on Steam for 5 bux, you'll get a Doom64 IWAD. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Edward850

[Xymph]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:08 AM, Edward850 said:

Did you miss the official rerelease? You know, done by Nightdive? 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1148590/DOOM_64/

I feel so hurt, Xymph. D:

Got it in the summer sale now. :)

[Chip]

I don't think the DOOM Fandom is that bad. its information is clear, and updated a bit. I think the DOOMWiki is good, too. But, if you want quick and simple info, go to the Fandom. I don't get the big deal about it not being as good. Trader Joe's Bolognese ravioli is better than Chef Boyardee's clump o' crap, but that doesn't mean that I don't want Chef Boyardee some days, and Bolognese ravioli the next. 

[Redneckerz]

9 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I don't think the DOOM Fandom is that bad. its information is clear, and updated a bit.

Another one of your opinions i can't contest, right?

 

What specific articles are "updated a bit" over the Wiki? Id love to know because the Wiki has enough unique (and specific!) content that is not on Fandom.

 

9 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I think the DOOMWiki is good, too. But, if you want quick and simple info, go to the Fandom.

Okay, i have to ask what this even means. Wiki's cleaner, no ads, and elaborate. 

9 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I don't get the big deal about it not being as good. Trader Joe's Bolognese ravioli is better than Chef Boyardee's clump o' crap, but that doesn't mean that I don't want Chef Boyardee some days, and Bolognese ravioli the next. 

Except your Chef Boyardee comes with hair's included, will require you to fill in a form afterwards, and you can't speak to a manager like Karen.

[dr_st]

 

3 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

and you can't speak to a manager like Karen

If I could find the idiot who popularized this stupid "let's associate the name Karen with some dumb broad stereotype" meme, and beat him to a bloody pulp, and get away with it, I would. :)

[Quasar]

14 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I don't think the DOOM Fandom is that bad. its information is clear, and updated a bit. I think the DOOMWiki is good, too. But, if you want quick and simple info, go to the Fandom. I don't get the big deal about it not being as good. Trader Joe's Bolognese ravioli is better than Chef Boyardee's clump o' crap, but that doesn't mean that I don't want Chef Boyardee some days, and Bolognese ravioli the next. 

Well you can think what you want, but in light of the history, of which you're clearly unaware, I find that attitude disrespectful to the community. Take some time to educate yourself here:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2038468

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1597719

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1899656

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1585740

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2081169

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1373212

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_Wiki:Departure_from_Wikia

[Chip]

@Quasar I read the stuff, but I'm confused on how I'm being disrespectful to the community. In my analogy, I was using the Doomwiki as the Trader Joe's brand ravioli which is great and delicious. I don't want to come across as rude to you, since you are a moderator, but it seems like you have something against the Fandom, only because it is a commercial website. you're telling me it's research I have to do, but the articles are the same thing, restated. unless there is a huge chunk of this I'm missing, I see in no way how I come across as disrespectful to the community. Maybe if there is more to fill me in on, that would be great! And sorry if this came across as rude or condescending, since I'm really asking for more information (It sound sarcastic, doesn't it? I hate how it seems that way). 

 

also, @Redneckerz why do you have to get so mad about a discussion we had on a different topic? let it be. I don't want to contest with you since you come across as condescending and rude. if you had simply left it alone, or explained to me "why?" instead of flipping on me the same question, I could listen to you, instead of getting angry, which in the end, seems like the thing you want, to get me mad. If I were to argue, I would say what's the big deal? I give two craps about ads, and I was just saying that for quick info, it's easy to access. Of course I understand people debating my opinion, I just don't want people to try to persuade me by making me look idiotic.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way. I love the community here on Doomworld, but I don't like how a simple comment can create such a frustration. please, don't get mad, since I really mean no harm. I thought my comment would kind of go under the radar, and fly by most people. Not for it to become a huge discussion on how I'm wrong, and how I should feel foolish for my actions. please leave my comments alone. I beg, I really do. just let them fly by, don't make them the biggest threat made to you all day. sorry if this did happen to offend anyone. I'm just giving my point of view on how I don't always have to turn out the bad guy. 

 

@Quasar and @Redneckerz I generally love your comments, and aspire to be as great of a Doomworld member as you. don't take this the wrong way, and just remember that I still would like to get along even after this conversation. 

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I don't want to come across as rude to you, since you are a moderator, but it seems like you have something against the Fandom, only because it is a commercial website. you're telling me it's research I have to do, but the articles are the same thing, restated. unless there is a huge chunk of this I'm missing, I see in no way how I come across as disrespectful to the community. Maybe if there is more to fill me in on, that would be great!

Okay, then just read this link only: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_Wiki:Departure_from_Wikia

There is a multitude of reasons why Fandom is essentially considered a bane here.

 

Also the remark about your opinion that i can't contest was with slight sarcasm, but i should have exaggerated this a bit more to effect. Apologies.

1 hour ago, LiT_gam3r said:

 

also, @Redneckerz why do you have to get so mad about a discussion we had on a different topic? let it be. I don't want to contest with you since you come across as condescending and rude.

The same questions still apply. Can you answer them, please?

• What specific articles on Fandom are "updated a bit" over the Wiki?
• What do you mean with ''If you want quick and simple info go to the fandom?''

1 hour ago, LiT_gam3r said:

If I were to argue, I would say what's the big deal? I give two craps about ads, and I was just saying that for quick info, it's easy to access.

DoomWiki is equally easy to access, so i'd love to know what you mean by easy to access. Its easier to read? Its quicker to load in? It gives a better summary? That sort of thing.

1 hour ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@Redneckerz I generally love your comments, and aspire to be as great of a Doomworld member as you. don't take this the wrong way, and just remember that I still would like to get along even after this conversation. 

The last thing you would want to do is be me or Quasar. I am a terrible rolemodel :P

 

And ofcourse we can get along. I don't base my impression of someone just on that. :)

[Chip]

@Redneckerz I guess it is a bit difficult to debate opinions online, since it is easy to get confused by somebody's writing. to answer the first question, they updated a topic about a minute ago about a DOOM Hunter, and when I search up how to exit a level, the Fandom's as the OP stated seems a bit clearer. sorry for the confusion. I still use the DOOM Wiki way more. I'm really saying that the Fandom isn't awful like some people believe.

[Redneckerz]

4 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@Redneckerz I guess it is a bit difficult to debate opinions online, since it is easy to get confused by somebody's writing. to answer the first question, they updated a topic about a minute ago about a DOOM Hunter, and when I search up how to exit a level, the Fandom's as the OP stated seems a bit clearer. sorry for the confusion. I still use the DOOM Wiki way more. I'm really saying that the Fandom isn't awful like some people believe.

Do you have links for the Doom Hunter article and how to exit a level?

 

It should be noted that some of this easy to access thing can be directly attributed to the fact that certain Doom related searches show the FanDom page first and the correct page is the 7th or 8th hit.

 

So Google even thinks Fandom is the better option, and that's one of the reasons why its not recieved that well. If Fandom was just a page with no influence, i could imagine a less strenuous response. But they actively harm searchability of the Wiki by their higher SEO results for lesser quality articles. And that is bull.

[Gez]

8 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I'm really saying that the Fandom isn't awful like some people believe.

When we say "Fandom" is awful, it's not about the articles they have. It's about the everything else.

[seed]

47 minutes ago, Gez said:

When we say "Fandom" is awful, it's not about the articles they have. It's about the everything else.

 

Pretty much this. For a while, before I was more aware of what exactly caused the rapture/division between the Wikia and the Doom community I thought it was no big deal as well, but @Quasar actually wrote some in-depth responses that he linked above for why Wikia is awful - and yeah, after going through each one of them, it certainly is.

 

The "anti-Wikia" sentiment that harbors on DW or within the Doom community itself in general is not specific to this place or anything like that, they're not worth contributing to for many reasons.

Edited June 27, 2020 by seed

[P41R47]

Hey, @LiT_gam3r, i don't want to take on you at all, but, serious question, how it is easier to access? When i try to get in the fandom, i get bombarded with ads almost all the time, ads that slow down my browser and some that even are invasive enough to fill the whole screen.

When i escape the ads rape, the information, sometimes is the same as the Doom Wiki, except for the lore things and so that are the IN articles right now on the fandom, and the wiki doesn't fill much on speculative theories that don't have a proper base.

Anyway, just seriously asking, how its easier to access? My avast goes nuts sometimes if i enter a fandom page.

[Chip]

@P41R47 (coolest name ever) I don't mean it is easier to access, it is just that it is right there for you to use at any time. 

 

@seed sort of like Michael Jackson. I hate that man personally. he was a devil, but that doesn't mean I don't still hum to his music when it comes on the radio. I can still listen to him without feeling bad about it. 

[Quasar]

46 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@P41R47 (coolest name ever) I don't mean it is easier to access, it is just that it is right there for you to use at any time. 

 

@seed sort of like Michael Jackson. I hate that man personally. he was a devil, but that doesn't mean I don't still hum to his music when it comes on the radio. I can still listen to him without feeling bad about it. 

That's the part I don't really get. There shouldn't be any ease-of-access issues with the Doom Wiki. One thing you can do is this, in most browsers:

Then you can literally search the wiki without already being on it, by selecting it in your search bar. If you're already on-site, the search box is right there on the page.

[fraggle]

2 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@Quasar I read the stuff, but I'm confused on how I'm being disrespectful to the community. In my analogy, I was using the Doomwiki as the Trader Joe's brand ravioli which is great and delicious. I don't want to come across as rude to you, since you are a moderator, but it seems like you have something against the Fandom, only because it is a commercial website. you're telling me it's research I have to do, but the articles are the same thing, restated. unless there is a huge chunk of this I'm missing, I see in no way how I come across as disrespectful to the community. Maybe if there is more to fill me in on, that would be great! And sorry if this came across as rude or condescending, since I'm really asking for more information (It sound sarcastic, doesn't it? I hate how it seems that way). 

First off, throw away the analogies. We aren't talking about a battle of brands like Pepsi vs. Coke. In my experience trying to come up with analogies for how something is "like" something else to understand it will more often than not cause more confusion, because the analogy will be inaccurate or just plain wrong. It's better if you just read what other people say and try to understand.

 

I'll quote what I said on the previous page because the history is important:

 

On 5/27/2020 at 11:05 AM, fraggle said:

The Doom Wiki started life on Fandom and after several years the community of editors who created it decided to leave it and become an independent site. Fandom don't let you move your site because they make money off the ads on their pages, so the old site remains, confuses people and competes with the real wiki in search results.

 

That's why we all hate Fandom so much. It's not just because "the pages have lots of ads and that's annoying". Fandom disrespects our community and fucks us all over for profit. If you care about this wonderful Doom community we're all part of, please always use the real Wiki that's community-owned and maintained, and tell all your friends to never give Fandom money by visiting their site.

 

Fandom ripped us off. That's the essence of our dispute, it's why Quasar (and plenty of the rest of us) has "something against Fandom" and feel so strongly about this subject. For those of us who care about the wiki, who have put a good amount of work into it and so on, it's endlessly irritating that the old site still appears in Google search results, often above the real wiki. It's a constant reminder that our work has been stolen, and our work is valued less than an out-of-date, often less accurate version of the site.

 

All that we ask is that others stand in solidarity with us in rejecting the Fandom version of the Wiki, which in practice means:

1. Don't visit their site (doing so gives them money, because the page shows ads)
2. Don't link to their site (doing so helps boost their site in search results) 
3. Don't recommend that others visit their site, like you're doing - doing so gives them money and increases their users.

I hope this helps you to understand a bit better. When you say you're going to use Fandom, it's like you're kicking sand in the face of the people who have really built the site.

[Chip]

@fraggle using analogies are one of the greatest things you can do, as it gets the point across through imagery. for example, it might be difficult to understand politics. So the saying Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, or teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime may explain Democrats from Republicans.

 

also, being able to access both the DOOM Wiki and the Fandom is the beauty of the internet. It allows us to use more than one source to get our material. it is also capitalism. it is great that the people at Wikia get money for such little information, that's what sustains people, it gives competition, without it, there would be nothing, and we all would be mindless drones. you telling us to not use the website just because they did you wrong won't get you or us anywhere. I'm fine not using the Fandom. I just don't understand why it has to be such a big deal. you're trying to get everybody to come onto your side of the battle, to overtake the other side. but it simply does not work. I personally am on your side, and I am not promoting the Fandom. I don't want you to say that everybody has to share your opinion as the ultimate truth. but trust me, I am on your side. 

 

please don't single me out for a silly comment I made. Quasar already filled me in on it, and I only started to get mad at him for him telling me that I was disrespectful, even though I didn't know your side until now. 

 

I don't have an issue with the DOOM Wiki. Again, I use it wayyyyyyy more than the DOOM Fandom. I mentioned that in my original post, as I refered to it as the better "brand" to the Fandom, which I literally used the term clump o' crap to refer to. Can we please get off of this, though? I'll say I'm sorry. But please, this does not have to be a discussion. Again, sorry. 

[dr_st]

2 hours ago, fraggle said:

All that we ask is that others stand in solidarity with us in rejecting the Fandom version of the Wiki

Heck, when I learned about all this crap, I decided to take it one step further and reject any Fandom wiki.

[fraggle]

25 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

also, being able to access both the DOOM Wiki and the Fandom is the beauty of the internet. It allows us to use more than one source to get our material. it is also capitalism. it is great that the people at Wikia get money for such little information, that's what sustains people, it gives competition, without it, there would be nothing, and we all would be mindless drones.

Everything you've said here is a bunch of ignorant nonsense, starting from the idea that there's more than one source. The reality is that there's a single source - both wikis are the product of our labour, and one of them is being exploited against our wishes by a big company. In that sense I guess it is "capitalism" in the sense that that's what capitalism does in general - ripping people off for profit. But please don't pretend that's somehow a good thing.

 

You say you're "on my side" but you keep on making excuses for the shitty company that ripped us off. It's not how a friend or an ally behaves. I guess it's easy for you to sit on the sidelines and say this stuff because you haven't contributed to the wiki so you don't have any skin in the game. Quasar's right though - it sure as hell is disrespectful when you want to use the fruits of our labour but you don't seem to want to show any respect for where it came from.

[Chip]

@fraggle oh god! I misread the article. I just thought that a bunch of people from Doomworld that helped form the Wiki decided to stop helping and make their own DOOM Wiki. I'm sorry.

 

I'm not saying that using it is disrespectful, because now I see that it is. I was confused on why Quasar would say I'm being disrespectful since I had no idea why it was. If he said that if I use it in the future, it will come across as disrespectful, which would make sense since I had learned about the topic. just calling me disrespectful for not knowing a few facts isn't a great way to get somebody to be on your side. a different approach to this would have helped a lot. I was confused at first, and then I got mad. I feel like Quasar thought I was mad at first. Which I understand. rereading my first message, I see how it could be taken the wrong way, and it was. again, so sorry for all of this. I take the blame 100% and I'll learn from my mistake. I just got a block website app and I am banning the Fandom right now. 

 

Edit: just to show my dedication to Doomworld and the members, here is a beautiful picture for when I search up the Fandom. XD 

Edited June 27, 2020 by LiT_gam3r

[seed]

50 minutes ago, dr_st said:

Heck, when I learned about all this crap, I decided to take it one step further and reject any Fandom wiki.

 

Count me too, and I won't feel its absence anyway.

[Redneckerz]

3 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@fraggle

also, being able to access both the DOOM Wiki and the Fandom is the beauty of the internet. It allows us to use more than one source to get our material.

Fandom is not a source. A proper source would not litter its content with garbage ads.

3 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

it gives competition, without it, there would be nothing, and we all would be mindless drones. you telling us to not use the website just because they did you wrong won't get you or us anywhere.

Fandom is not competition, its obsolete junk that takes the SEO results hostage for their low quality articles. You actively get questionable content promoted instead of the real deal.

 

What does not get anyone anywhere is considering Fandom a viable entity and questioning what the issue is when it has been laid out for you multiple times. Still acting coy at that stage is seen as a flagrant disregard.

 

3 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

Can we please get off of this, though? I'll say I'm sorry. But please, this does not have to be a discussion. Again, sorry. 

This is strange to ask when right before you directly question/criticize Quasar's Fraggles pov and belittle the issue at hand.

2 hours ago, LiT_gam3r said:

@fraggle oh god! I misread the article. I just thought that a bunch of people from Doomworld that helped form the Wiki decided to stop helping and make their own DOOM Wiki. I'm sorry.

That's the strangest conclusion to arrive at given the multitude of sources given.

 

Id still like an answer to the following if you do not mind:

• Do you have links for the Doom Hunter article and how to exit a level?

[Chip]

@Redneckerz I don't know if you saw the edit to my last post, but I blocked the Fandom. I can't get either article. 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

40 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

 

Id still like an answer to the following if you do not mind:

• Do you have links for the Doom Hunter article and how to exit a level?

I think we can stop now, he's still fairly young after all.

[P41R47]

1 hour ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

I think we can stop now, he's still fairly young after all.

Seconding this, i actually atempted this on other thread, but well...

Please guys, instead of jump to the neck of someone for some questionable opinions, try to educate politely about the matter.

Many of us here are a lot older than we might want to, and if we can't share our experience right, who will?
Sensible topics are sensible only if it doesn't treated in the right way.

Lets take things easy!

[Gez]

10 hours ago, dr_st said:

Heck, when I learned about all this crap, I decided to take it one step further and reject any Fandom wiki.

Unfortunately not always possible, especially since they bought Gamepedia.

[Jon]

I’ve always felt the best response to the continued existence of fandom is to improve the Doom wiki. Channel the anger into constructive energy instead. After all the split was nearly ten years ago. Almost twice as much time has passed since then as before it. There’s still plenty to improve on the DOOM wiki. 
 

putting my money where my mouth is I’ll do my annual backup to archive.org on Monday. And maybe I’ll try to pick back up work on building the next VPS.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Jon