Unpopular Doom Opinions

[Kute]

I'm a big fan of the Slayer lore and character, and I think Doom 1 has aged poorly. Doom 1 and Doom 3 are examples of a direction I would not want the series to go into.

 

Doom 2 and Doom: Eternal are the peaks of this series, especially if you're talking creativity and gameplay - skill and fun.

[Sonikkumania]

1 hour ago, Kute said:

I'm a big fan of the Slayer lore and character, and I think Doom 1 has aged poorly. Doom 1 and Doom 3 are examples of a direction I would not want the series to go into.

 

Doom 2 and Doom: Eternal are the peaks of this series, especially if you're talking creativity and gameplay - skill and fun.

I'd say Doom 2, especially city levels, have aged more. Doom 1 levels can still be very gorgeous.

 

But I still love the hell out of both.

[Lucius Wooding]

Actually Chex Quest represents the true peak of the series. Just as breakfast is the most important meal of the day, Chex Quest is the most important game in the history of the FPS genre.

 

 

[heliumlamb]

as an outside observer, John "the doom slayer" Doom-Guy really just feels like doomguy from the doom comic played brutal doom, and then made playing brutal doom like his entire personality. pull apart and sever i guess

 

[Fraston]

MAP05/13’s music track is fantastic and saves the maps that it’s in from mediocrity.

[ChestedArmor]

Doom, even with it's satisfying weapons and huge monster roster, can get samey and boring after a while

[baja blast rd.]

Something I've noticed is that it's not uncommon for people to invent "trends" of their own imagining, and then get mad at them, when a lot of what they are getting mad at begins and ends with their own misperceptions. 

 

One is how sometimes people fixate on wads' detail quantity (instead of many more interesting things to talk about with detail), and then also imagine wads as having way more detail than they have (I've seen people describe Valiant as a "super high detail wad," which is really funny), so then they think every popular wad is high detail and get mad at that. 

 

(Also a similar thing is the sort of people years back who'd get really mad at the "hyper-polished, professional, sleek" look without stopping for a moment and realizing that this is usually a intentionally minimalist strategy, more like a modern Scythe than anything, rather than authors trying to be ultra-polished and dazzlingly "high detail.")

 

Or how some people would think Ribbiks-like wads proliferate because to them every wad that uses bright colors is the same wad stylistically because said people ignore basically everything else but color.

 

Or how some people seem to think "using bright colors" is some hyperspecific aesthetic strategy that has become unduly prominent, when at that level of specificity, you have either: natural colors, bright colors (one tone or 2+ tone), heavy brown, dull colors, and a few others. So even by random chance, a lot of wads will have "bright colors." 

 

(Color is a really big offender here because it doesn't take any knowledge or effort to go, "oh yeah that's blue, and that one is purple," even without understanding anything else in a scene. So it's ripe for lazy takes and people fixating on it and defining trends in terms of it instead of looking at architectural styles or anything remotely more specific about how wads create their experiences.)

[Majin]

42 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

(Color is a really big offender here because it doesn't take any knowledge or effort to go, "oh yeah that's blue, and that one is purple," even without understanding anything else in a scene. So it's ripe for lazy takes and people fixating on it and defining trends in terms of it instead of looking at architectural styles or anything remotely more specific about how wads create their experiences.)

https://book.leveldesignbook.com/process/blockout/lighting#d6-lighting

https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/color-theory

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Color_Theory_in_Level_Design#:~:text=The primary colors (Yellow%2C Blue,provide the shades of colors.

while on this topic, here are some helpful pages for learning lighting & colour theory 

[Azure_Horror]

3 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

(Color is a really big offender here because it doesn't take any knowledge or effort to go, "oh yeah that's blue, and that one is purple," even without understanding anything else in a scene. So it's ripe for lazy takes and people fixating on it and defining trends in terms of it instead of looking at architectural styles or anything remotely more specific about how wads create their experiences.)

To be fair, color schemes are one of the first things that grab our attention. No wonder people notice them the most.

 

BTW, Ribbiks-like color schemes are indeed too prominent !

Cassali brothers even used Time Travel to incorpotae it into Plutonia Experiment map15 !

\s

[El Jeff]

Aight imma say this rn, dont kill me for this.

 

Doom 64 is overrated, i think it's the most boring doom game. the combat is just not there, it has the same monotony as doom 1 but without the combat highlights. sure, the atmosphere is great but atmosphere doesnt matter when the gameplay is about as fun as TNT evilution. If you like it, that's great but for me i think it's the worst out the classic doom games and maybe the whole franchise. 

[knifeworld]

13 minutes ago, Thatonespymain said:

Aight imma say this rn, dont kill me for this.

 

Doom 64 is overrated, i think it's the most boring doom game. the combat is just not there, it has the same monotony as doom 1 but without the combat highlights. sure, the atmosphere is great but atmosphere doesnt matter when the gameplay is about as fun as TNT evilution. If you like it, that's great but for me i think it's the worst out the classic doom games and maybe the whole franchise. 

I think D64 works as an almost survival-horror-like game in places. The slower pace, aesthetics, sound design and music add to that kind of feel.
As a fan of that sort of thing I can mostly forgive the reduced monster roster, personally I think the levels are also better designed compared to much of D2, and some have puzzle elements that fit the darker vibe and slower pace.

I do miss the D2 monsters and combat loop, so it would be cool to see more wads like D64D2 that go for that darker feel but use the full roster.
Since I've followed Immorpher's YT channel I've seen that there is some custom maps going on for D64 so I've got to get around to trying those too.

[Katamori]

BTSX1-2 are boring. Not the gameplay, not the textures, even the layouts do their job but the whole thing is just too abstract for me. I have a faint memory about having a thread myself about it in the past though.

 

I also loved AEons of Death, and I insist it's a much better gameplay mod than Brutal Doom. At least I wasn't complaining some levels are unbeatable with AEoD.

[bofu]

17 hours ago, Katamori said:

I also loved AEons of Death, and I insist it's a much better gameplay mod than Brutal Doom. At least I wasn't complaining some levels are unbeatable with AEoD.

 

This is me, but with Doom Roguelike Arsenal + Monsterpack. Yeah, you can get screwed over by RNG, but it's inserting roguelike elements into Doom. That kind of feels like the point.

 

As for my other unpopular opinions:

 

- If you have an SSG and get up close to an enemy while still having plenty of potential cover, you shouldn't complain about not having a rocket or plasma or BFG to burn through Cyberdemons, Spiderdemons, or Barons. If it's a big horde of them, that's one thing. Shooting a cyberdemon with an SSG is way more fulfilling and provides way more feedback than shooting them with a missile launcher even if the damage is comparable, and that's because enemies have a much bigger chance of triggering their pain state when they're taking a few dozen pellets at point blank range.

- Unless the explicit aim of a source port is to preserve the exact original feel of Doom (see: Chocolate Doom), I think it's a wasted opportunity not to add QoL bugfixes as options outside of, say, demo playback/recording. The lines have been drawn in very weird places by a lot of ports as to what features they're willing to add versus what ones they're not, and it feels wildly inconsistent to me.

- OTEX is a great texture pack, but I have "moody OTEX aesthetic"-fatigue.

Edited August 24, 2022 by bofu
clarification: i did not dislike btsx

[Nefelibeta]

On 8/10/2022 at 5:49 PM, Azure_Horror said:

My most recent personal example - 1st fight on Fractured Worlds Map 06 - UV.

At its core, this fight is an elaborate and subtle revenant-AV brawl. Minimalist and seemingly innocuous, but deadly under the surface.

Honestly, stay away for a while and come back with more experience. That's how I eventually learn to appreciate Stardate 20x7.

[PKr]

My unpopular opinion:

 

Doom is the best way to learn programming... I am not a programmer, the only thing I know about coding are if/else statements, and that's about it. But DAMN it is fun to not only play this game, but also try to understand how everything works. And troubleshoot things. And break things. And then fix them.

Edited August 25, 2022 by PKr

[Yasha]

Ribbiks maps, with rare exceptions, are not merely not slaughter, but the diametric opposite of slaughter. They are almost exclusively focused on suffocating, constrictive architecture crawling with monsters. They're alien, surreal, tortured monoliths where the only way to survive is constant movement but the level design is specifically claustrophobic to make that as brutally difficult as possible. They are hard, yes. Damn hard. But I'd say they are hard in almost the exact opposite way a WAD like Hell Revealed or Sunder is hard. I'm pretty sure there are individual rooms in Sunder that are bigger than most entire Ribbiks maps!

Edited August 25, 2022 by Yasha

[Firedust]

7 minutes ago, Yasha said:

Ribbiks maps, with rare exceptions, are not merely not slaughter, but the diametric opposite of slaughter. They are almost exclusively focused on suffocating, constrictive architecture crawling with monsters. They're alien, surreal, tortured monoliths where the only way to survive is constant movement but the level design is specifically claustrophobic to make that as brutally difficult as possible. They are hard, yes. Damn hard. But I'd say they are hard in almost the exact opposite way a WAD like Hell Revealed or Sunder is hard. I'm pretty sure there are individual rooms in Sunder that are bigger than most entire Ribbiks maps!

I don't think this is really an opinion but more of a statement of fact. Stardate 207x and SWTW have a lot of rooms featuring a modest enemy roster deployed in the most violent and butt-clenching setup imaginable.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Firedust

[Lucius Wooding]

Some of his maps are closer to slaughter though, especially some arenas in the bigger ones such as Sunlust map 12, map 18 and the end of map 24 and 30 for example. But in my opinion a lot of the smaller fights and less populated maps can be the trickiest. He'll rarely give you a wide open layout and there's always a couple wrinkles thrown in to make things uncomfortable. I don't necessarily like the slaughter label since it can mean different things (and people often spell it wrong), but to me it has a connotation of very straightforward combat and placing enemies where they're in a good setup to be killed efficiently. Ribbiks definitely does a good job of punishing players who lack awareness and don't use good tactics, and a lot of the time still gets you even if you do.

[spineapple tea]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:49 AM, Faceman2000 said:

E3M5 (Unholy Cathedral) is the best map in E3 and one of the best maps in the game.

I know this was posted two years ago but I just really want to know your reasoning for this.

[heliumlamb]

the chaingun is pretty alright and a fairly useful, accurate weapon at distance?
it takes much less time between taps to return to perfect accuracy compared to the pistol, and with those first 2 rounds always having perfect accuracy, it's essentially a 2-shot burst rifle when fire's being tapped rather than held down. it also helps to know that it will always fire in multiples of 2.

when i watch other people play, it's incredibly rare to see other people use the chaingun in such a way. it's so much more likely to see it being used up close, full auto with the fire button being held down the whole time.

[tatsu91]

3 minutes ago, heliumlamb said:

the chaingun is pretty alright and a fairly useful, accurate weapon at distance?
it takes much less time between taps to return to perfect accuracy compared to the pistol, and with those first 2 rounds always having perfect accuracy, it's essentially a 2-shot burst rifle when fire's being tapped rather than held down. it also helps to know that it will always fire in multiples of 2.

when i watch other people play, it's incredibly rare to see other people use the chaingun in such a way. it's so much more likely to see it being used up close, full auto with the fire button being held down the whole time.

I tend to use it both ways tbh i do notice many people skip sniping with it though for some reason

[Faceman2000]

1 hour ago, Spineapple tea said:

I know this was posted two years ago but I just really want to know your reasoning for this.

Okay, “one of the best maps in the game” was an exaggeration brought on by how hated that map is, but here goes; why it’s my favorite E3 map:

 

First off, let’s address everyone’s main complaint: the teleport puzzle. It’s really not as confusing as people make it out to be. Three teleporters take you to the center of the map. The fourth does not. It’s the one that’s flashing. Just go through it and easy-peasy.

 

Now, for what I love about the map. First off, it is absolutely dripping in atmosphere. The imposing marble walls, the glowing red runes, the Stonehenge-like structure in the middle. . . I also like that it’s a recognizable structure with a purpose. Most of E3 is so abstract but this is a corrupted version of a cathedral, a dark imposing structure for profane worship. What kind of dark ceremonies occur here? It tickles the imagination. Demons on the Prey is probably used its best on this level, too, heightening the foreboding atmosphere.

 

I like the way the levels unfolds as you explore it. The way that one of the center structures open up each time you return to it, the random lava room, the weird structure you have to walk through to open the room with the Lost Souls, and so forth.

 

That’s a lot of words to say it really just hits a Doom itch I have in a way that not many maps do. I get that it’s totally a personal preference thing but I really do love this map.

[Ozcar]

Doomguy > Doomslayer 

 

 

I dont care if he less powerful than doomslayer, aleast he got more personality than doomslayer.

Just because you character is most powerful, Doesnt that mean he is better.

Edit: Change in my mind, i actually like doomslayer.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Ozcar

[Alfonso]

The Shores of Hell > Knee-Deep in the Dead

All Doom 2 maps are good.

[Naan]

I'm currently rediscovering Icarus: Alien Vanguard, having completed maps 01-14 and I was quite pleasantly surprised, despite the midly at best reception from the DWMegaWad club some years ago.

 

It's probably one of the earliest attempts to make self-explained, story driven levels. Well it's quite far from being close to Half-Life's level of narration but at least you can guess that you are going after a missed ship named Icarus and you are bouncing between Icarus' sections, planet sectors and training simulations that must have been corrupted as the demons inside are deadly.

 

I also liked most of the music and the fact that each of the 3 level styles have its own tone. Planet levels tends to have rock, nudging music while simulations' are quite lighthearted, and ship levels have that reccuring melody fitted here and there.

 

I feel like it was also one of the earliest efforts to make a consistent megawad where, rather than taking a slot and submit a map following some rules like in most community projects, the level progression and map themes seems to have been decided beforehand and mappers picked what they'd like to create. Simulation levels must have been kind of "wildcard slots" where mappers had the most freedom to make eccentric concepts, such as the "flipsided" MAP05.

 

For all of that I think this was a better release than Evilution which looked like a pile of levels where some may be individually better, but lacks the cohesive feel of Icarus.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Naan

[Ozcar]

.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Ozcar

[out_of_service]

Aight imma say this rn, dont kill me for this.

 

Map 22: Habitat isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It's got killer set peaces, a mind bogling maze and that scary part wit the devil star where monsters teleport in. The HYPE is real guys. RIP AND TEARRRR!!!!!!1

Edited August 27, 2022 by Piper Maru

[good old niko!]

Imo, I kind of dislike aiming up and down with the mouse kind of. Like when you move it the sprites don’t look right and it just doesn’t feel right compared to auto aim, the wads look different and like, I’m not saying it’s terrible, I just find it bad and weird Imo. Change my mind🤷‍♂️

[good old niko!]

17 hours ago, Ozcar said:

I hate when people say "B-BUT DOOM SHOULD BE METAL SONG, NOT SOME HORROR, YOU SHOULD SUPPOSED TO BE HORROR FOR DEMON, NOT SURVIVOR, RIP AND TEAR RIP AND TEAR!!!!!!!!!!!111111111" When doom music atmospheric fit doom too.

 

 

“Bro shut the heck up, I’m listening to Lost Civilization ost”

https://tenor.com/bLS0O.gif

also imo lost civilization just has to be one of the best atmospheric wads out there from what I’ve seen

[Lucius Wooding]

22 minutes ago, good old niko! said:

Imo, I kind of dislike aiming up and down with the mouse kind of. Like when you move it the sprites don’t look right and it just doesn’t feel right compared to auto aim, the wads look different and like, I’m not saying it’s terrible, I just find it bad and weird Imo. Change my mind🤷‍♂️

 

I know there are mods which provide additional rotation angles for the sprites, I'm curious if any exist for viewing from above and below as well. Freelook makes the game look so cursed, and the voxels are a bit of a strange look even though it's a good compromise.