Unpopular Doom Opinions

[Shepardus]

9 hours ago, Geniraul said:

E2M2 is one of the best maps in The Shores of Hell.

 

E2M2 won a 2015 poll seeking the best level in all of Doom/Doom II, so I'd say this is not unpopular at all, quite the opposite actually.

 

14 minutes ago, Naarok0fkor said:

Why did the savegame & screenshot folders have been changed with GZDoom4.9+ ???

This was explained at the top of the release notes for 4.9.

[Geniraul]

44 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

E2M2 won a 2015 poll seeking the best level in all of Doom/Doom II, so I'd say this is not unpopular at all, quite the opposite actually.

 

Hmmm, that makes sense. It seems like I overrated the popularity of the opinion that E2M2 is not cool enough. I just reread some of the comments under E2M2 videos on YouTube, and most people claim that this is one of their favorite levels of the episode 2. Maybe I thought about people who were not big fans of the map because some of the video content creators were among them, as well as some people who I know personally.

 

But it seems like Containment Area is conversely one of the community's favorite levels, if not the one; if so, this is some really good news to me! :) Thanks for the link!

Edited January 16, 2023 by Geniraul
It seems like I overrated the popularity of the opinion that E2M2 is not cool enough, not the unpopularity

[Maximum Matt]

What, The Living End lost out to it?  Aw hell no

[Average]

Heretic is a better game than Doom 2.  Better and more consistent level design, better soundtrack and more evolved gameplay.

[Codename_Delta]

On 1/16/2023 at 12:46 AM, Geniraul said:

 

Hmmm, that makes sense. It seems like I overrated the popularity of the opinion that E2M2 is not cool enough. I just reread some of the comments under E2M2 videos on YouTube, and most people claim that this is one of their favorite levels of the episode 2. Maybe I thought about people who were not big fans of the map because some of the video content creators were among them, as well as some people who I know personally.

 

But it seems like Containment Area is conversely one of the community's favorite levels, if not the one; if so, this is some really good news to me! :) Thanks for the link!

*sad the chasm fanboy noises*

[Geniraul]

31 minutes ago, Codename_Delta said:

*sad the chasm fanboy noises*

 

Huh?

[Space Truckin']

8 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

What, The Living End lost out to it?  Aw hell no

I'm actually wondering if that was a troll. I don't despise Containment Area, but the best map in Doom 1 and 2? That's crazy, most of the reception of that map I've seen is negative. Compared to Living End, which most people think is easily top 5 out of the Doom 2 maps, and I'm really quite astonished. 

 

Not to mention beating Computer Station AND Hangar. Insane. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Space Truckin'

[Crusader No Regret]

I'd prefer it if mappers didn't force disable jumping and crouching in maps and mapsets where it's not intended.  Let the players goof around how they want and if they get themselves stuck or break progression because of using unintended features, it's their own damn fault.  A note in the textfile that indicates jumping/crouching as not intended for the map ought to suffice.

 

Also, partly because it creates more busywork for someone making a vanilla/Boom map to force disable jump/crouch, as little as it may be.

[bofu]

On 1/23/2023 at 3:37 PM, Crusader No Regret said:

A note in the textfile that indicates jumping/crouching as not intended for the map ought to suffice.

You'd think so, but I got multiple bug reports about how jumping broke or trivialized certain areas of my maps until I finally went in and disabled. The text file and thread both stated that jumping and crouching should be disabled.

 

Sometimes people don't read.

[Lucius Wooding]

The whole reason those settings exist is to allow the mapper to set them up how they intend. And the end user can certainly override it easily but to me it's in poor taste to do so. Many mappers spend a great deal of time getting the gameplay just right and I choose to respect it or move on if I'm not having fun. Jumping is done in Doom by running very fast off a ledge only, or getting blasted by an archvile, dammit. 

 

Also some ports have it enabled by default while others don't support it at all. It's pretty understandable for a mapper to want some consistency across ports since it totally breaks the intended progression and design a lot of the time. Not just jumping, but some mods even allow vaulting and climbing and it's absolutely ridiculous how much you can parkour around. May as well just map IDCLIP to a button. For mappers who actually intend use of these features, generally they're using advanced formats anyway.

 

If you really want to allow jumping when it's disabled, you can always make use of a mod that overrides it or edit the files yourself, it's fairly trivial if it means that much to allow yourself to cheat for screwing around purposes. Pretty sure it could be toggled in console or via user facing settings if you wish as well. Expecting everyone to read the txt is just not realistic at all for 90% of users, not just in Doom but in documentation in general.

 

I've also run across the opposite problem, where I was playing a decently made map and got stuck where evidently the mapper forgot that jumping and crouching weren't a core feature of the game. It was limit removing but I couldn't get past some obstacle and it turned out the mapper had no idea this was a problem and made no mention of jumping being required. At least if the mapper disables jumping where unintended, the map is still otherwise beatable.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Lucius Wooding

[The BMFG]

The only thing that redeems doom 2 is the new monsters and the ssg, most of the later are terrible. Especially downtown

[yakfak]

^ world's most often-repeated unpopular opinion

 

(my current unpopular Doom opinion is that it's exhausting and that 32 levels is too much)

Edited January 27, 2023 by yakfak

[esselfortium]

6 hours ago, The BMFG said:

The only thing that redeems doom 2 is the new monsters and the ssg, most of the later are terrible. Especially downtown

if you think the later maps in doom 2 are rough wait until you play the later maps in doom 1

[The BMFG]

8 hours ago, esselfortium said:

if you think the later maps in doom 2 are rough wait until you play the later maps in doom 1

i dont like them either tbh, too maze like for me. episode 1 clears

[idclip]

Abattoire is the hardest level of Plutonia.

Go 2 It may look intimidating with all the cyberdemons but they are mostly harmless. The ones in narrow corridors are Peekaboo shootable and the rest are in places with enough visibility and space to move around them. The last area with 3(?) cybers at the same time and archvile or two  is a bit troublesome perhaps. There are quite a few maps that are more problematic for me: Speed, Temple of Darkness and Omen come to mind.

 

But it took me ages to win the last fight of map 9 during a saveless run. Especially in ports that don't have infinite explosion height - those chaingunners cannot be killed from afar. And then there are multiple other challenges at the same time, revenants, mancubi, not falling off the ledge and struggle with auto aim. Oh and for whatever reason the area with imps and mega armor fails to open half the time forcing me to do another loop, but that could be my gzdoom settings. The rest of the map is easy but not easy enough to just breeze through without thinking.

 

Not so unpopular opinion: Plutonia map 10 is the most infuriating to complete from a pistol start. And not just in Plutonia. I've never seen anything like it anywhere...

[Egyptian Guardian]

Quote

if you think the later maps in doom 2 are rough wait until you play the later maps in doom 1

i found the later levels in doom 64 to be much more challenging. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Bernie
made a mistake in my opinion

[Andromeda]

19 hours ago, idclip said:

Not so unpopular opinion: Plutonia map 10 is the most infuriating to complete from a pistol start. And not just in Plutonia. I've never seen anything like it anywhere...

You can do a little trick to get the super shotgun early, which makes it more bearable (skip to 0:12):

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Andromeda

[Endless]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:02 AM, yakfak said:

(my current unpopular Doom opinion is that it's exhausting and that 32 levels is too much)

The more megawads you play, the more you realize this is true.

 

When I started playing, my enthusiasm mostly blinded me to the actual fact that Doom, even for 1993/1994, is a massive game that has quite the redundancy there just for the sake of redundancy.

 

Its forte is its gameplay, but due to the simplistic nature of its FPS qualities, and high challenge in later levels, the game can become very unsavory and tiring after more than one episode of continuous play and you can see its flaws more clearly.

[Geniraul]

I think 32 levels worked well with the classic wads (Doom II, TNT, Plutonia), since these were the first ones, the beginning of the history.

 

And custom wads could benefit from making the gameplay experience somewhat shorter, say 20 maps like Italo Doom has. Cause one may find it quite fatiguing to play various 32 map megawads over and over again.

 

At the same time, a magnum opus like Doom Zero feels really entertaining to me; when I first played it, I wasn't tired even on the last map, despite the wad having 32 levels.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Geniraul

[idclip]

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

You can do a little trick to get the super shotgun early, which makes it more bearable (skip to 0:12):

 

Haha, yep, I wish I knew about it when playing that map. But now the damage is done and trauma will last forever.

[Doomy__Doom]

33 minutes ago, Geniraul said:

Cause one may find it quite fatiguing to play various 32 map megawads over and over again.

But... you don't have to. You don't have to play all maps of a given wad with no break. Tired of a particular style, or maybe the levels are back-to-back too daunting, or something else? Just switch over to and play a different wad in parallel, then come back when you're feeling up for it again. It's that simple, and really works for any and all "for fun" things, rather than just wads.

[Roofi]

This unpopular opinion doesn't only apply on the Doom community but , as a kind of level designer, I don't share the "anti-negativity" mindset which consists of ranting every time a member of the community make a thread like this :

 

"Which wads do you find overrated?" , "What do you hate in doom maps?" (...)

 

Of course, I agree to the fact that mapping, as other creative hobbies, is a matter of taste but I love reading other people's opinions and notably what they don't like. 

[baja blast rd.]

14 minutes ago, Roofi said:

This unpopular opinion doesn't only apply on the Doom community but , as a kind of level designer, I don't share the "anti-negativity" mindset which consists of ranting every time a member of the community make a thread like this :

 

"Which wads do you find overrated?" , "What do you hate in doom maps?" (...)

 

Of course, I agree to the fact that mapping, as other creative hobbies, is a matter of taste but I love reading other people's opinions and notably what they don't like. 

 

The main reason those threads annoy people is because 90% of them are complete zeroes in terms of effort put into the thread. Here is a recent thread that has a single reasonably thoughtful paragraph in its OP, which is not even much effort but that still outdoes maybe 5-10 typical "what sucks" threads combined because the standard for those is so low. It also has a specific question rather than a mindless "list what sucks" invitation. So all in all, no one is complaining about it. One person even called it a good question. And the people who have disagreements are engaging with the premise rather than calling the thread bad. 

 

Zero-effort threads aren't great in general, but at least if it's positive, there's an excuse for it, so some of those take off. Fly-by negativity dumps don't get that benefit.

 

The other issue with specifically "What do you hate in doom maps?" threads is the types that are by beginner level designers who think that crowdsourcing pet peeves to avoid is a good way to learn how to map -- but that is a horrendous approach and that needs to be pointed out to them.

[Mr Masker]

2 minutes ago, Roofi said:

This unpopular opinion doesn't only apply on the Doom community but , as a kind of level designer, I don't share the "anti-negativity" mindset which consists of ranting every time a member of the community make a thread like this :

 

"Which wads do you find overrated?" , "What do you hate in doom maps?" (...)

 

Of course, I agree to the fact that mapping, as other creative hobbies, is a matter of taste but I love reading other people's opinions and notably what they don't like. 

I think it's alright as long as the critique is actually constructive instead of just, "this mapset suk lmao" and isn't overly harsh and insulting.

[Geniraul]

1 hour ago, Doomy__Doom said:

But... you don't have to. You don't have to play all maps of a given wad with no break. Tired of a particular style, or maybe the levels are back-to-back too daunting, or something else? Just switch over to and play a different wad in parallel, then come back when you're feeling up for it again. It's that simple, and really works for any and all "for fun" things, rather than just wads.

 

There's a difference between playing 2 32 map megawads at the same time, and playing 1 32 map megawad and say several smaller wads like MSCP, Lunatic, Altier 6 etc. Smaller wads can be completed moderately fast, and therefore it's usually fun to begin another one after completing the previous, as most of them have a different and sometimes even unique design/type of gameplay while being made for being completed pretty quickly. And that megawad could still feel as quite a long one.

 

2 32 map megawads played at the same time can sometimes feel like 2 although adventures, but which both of them would be preferable to come to their logical end, IMO. Smaller wads enable a quicker switching between them after completing each. But then still, it's just a matter of taste ;)

Edited February 13, 2023 by Geniraul

[TheEyeOfStone]

Stuffing a level full of Heavy Weapon Dudes and Revenants, with Mancubuses and Hell Knights in supporting roles, and all topped off with a teleporting Arch-Vile or 5, is a tired cop out. It's a totally overused way to populate a map. Doing it that way is gonna make any new level, however well designed, seem stale and boring at this point. That's probably going to be an unpopular opinion.  

Edited February 22, 2023 by ColdBrew

[Matt Mello]

I like the Pistol unironically and I hate when WAD's replace the pistol with a rifle or submachine gun for the starting weapon.

[Maximum Matt]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:02 PM, yakfak said:

32 levels is too much

They should've carried over the episodic structure from Doom I and had four 9-level episodes, all with cool titles and map screens

[Jacek Bourne]

11 hours ago, Matt Mello said:

I like the Pistol unironically and I hate when WAD's replace the pistol with a rifle or submachine gun for the starting weapon.

 
What about dual pistols?

[Matt Mello]

4 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

 
What about dual pistols?

 

That could be alright, though I think a dual wield pistols works best as another weapon for the same slot as the pistol, sort of like the chainsaw and the super shotgun are for the fists and the regular shotgun.