Unpopular Doom Opinions

[WorldMachine]

Not my opinion but I saw this thread of this guy basically saying how Vanilla DOOM needs to just die already and we need to move to the Quake train instead. Utter fucking Mancubus balls.

 

Thread in question:

 

[Scorpinax]

Doom 1 is boring, I've played through it a few times and by about 6 maps in my eyes start to water. Shotgunning the same handful of enemies over and over becomes a chore pretty quickly

[WorldMachine]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:50 PM, Matt Mello said:

Doom Eternal sucks

Doom 64 also is highly overrated.

 

[RataUnderground]

"1. Vanilla must die." 

"2. Quake derived ports are the way to go." 

[TasAcri]

DOOM 64's lack of reload animations made me not buy the game back in the day.

 

Some of the enemy redesigns look like they were made by some edgy tattoo artist.

 

It's still the best DOOM game ever regardless.

Edited June 10, 2023 by TasAcri

[Buckshot]

I wouldn't mind a Doom 1/2/64 remaster. Not just a rerelease. Not a reboot. But just a remaster.

 

Like this...

Edited June 11, 2023 by Buckshot

[Async Unicorn]

 DOOM soundtrack sounds better and more brutal with "Gravis UltraSound Pro Patches Lite 1.61"
Though, regular patches suck on guitars, that's the fact.
I think, if BFG Edition had used these patches instead of classic, then no one would have anything against its sound.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Vanilla+Unicorn

[Manny84]

On 6/11/2023 at 7:25 AM, Buckshot said:

I wouldn't mind a Doom 1/2/64 remaster. Not just a rerelease. Not a reboot. But just a remaster.

 

Like this...

GZDoom on default settings /s

 

My unpopular opinion: getting 100% kills/secrets is boring and kills the flow of a play session. I just kill whatever I come across, but if I miss 10 enemies... nbd!

[WhateverComic07]

I hate secret hunting outside of maps that are expressly puzzle/exploration based (think Grove, My House, Cyberdreams, etc.)

[CapersOnSalad]

DOOM II has better levels than Ultimate Doom. Doom 1 essentially pumps monsters into a corridor or closet and expects all the fun to come out of blasting them. Doom II's levels, while not as consistent, are way more experimental with the game's capabilities and I'd argue is a larger inspiration to Doom mappers than Doom 1's levels were. The Chasm, Tricks and Traps, Dead Simple, Gotcha, Icon of Sin. They all vary in quality but are way preferable to UAC base number 5. The only thing that helps Doom 1 stick out is the aesthetic of Romero's levels; the rest aren't bad, but they're holding back in creativity. That being said, Spawning Vats and Containment Area are a bop. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by CapersOnSalad

[Gemidori]

The Dark Lord was actually kinda fun lol.

 

Doom 3 is a good game but is kind of dull. The cliches of "slow reload" and "limited run" really don't help the experience. The base game was pretty neat from start to finish, but the DLCs just drag on

 

Also, while I love both, I think Doom 2 largely has better maps than Doom 1, except for E1 of course. They're more open, you got more kills and some of them can be more intense than 1. MAP28 is a complete asshole though lol

 

And if I ever try to 100% something, it's gonna be kills honestly. Secrets can be a dick to find, when they're not broken ones anyway lol, and items? I only just grab what I see tbh, unless I'm super desperate for health or ammo.

 

Also nuDoom lore is a legit barrel of fun (reference unintended). It's one of the only deep lores besides Kirby that I'm unironically invested in.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Gemidori

[TasAcri]

The huge, over-detailed, easy to get lost maps of the original Knee Deep in ZDoom are great and some of the best looking DOOM maps ever created. Though i admit the KDIKDIZD demakes are more fun to run through.

 

DOOM 64 has the best ratio of good/bad maps in any DOOM game. IMO, it has overall the best officially released maps, excluding maybe a couple of Episode 1 ones like E1M2 and E1M3.

Edited June 17, 2023 by TasAcri

[Kwisior]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:44 PM, Scorpinax said:

Doom 1 is boring, I've played through it a few times and by about 6 maps in my eyes start to water. Shotgunning the same handful of enemies over and over becomes a chore pretty quickly

Then play with fast monsters; problem solved.

[Scorpinax]

1 hour ago, Kwisior said:

Then play with fast monsters; problem solved.

My main complaint with DOOM 1 is the enemy variety, and just making the monsters faster isn't going to solve that.

[Ozcar]

3 hours ago, Scorpinax said:

My main complaint with DOOM 1 is the enemy variety, and just making the monsters faster isn't going to solve that.

I agree, and also i cant stand to kill cacodemon or baron of hell without super shotgun, since they are both enemies bullet sponge, so it need took to shitload damage to kill them. Im glad doom 2 fixes that.
Thats why i like doom 2 better than ultimate doom, i know most people will say "Hurr durr doom 2 bad because same as first doom but with a super shotgun and worse level design" but they ignore doom 2 improve some things compared to first doom (such as enemies varieties, supershotgun and level is more longer than the first game). (well level design can be hit or miss, but still loved them)

I hope my english doesnt suck at this one....

Edited June 18, 2023 by Ozcar

[RaymanicRM]

Here are a couple of my hot takes:

> I REALLY love the Maykr artstyle in Eternal. It created such a beautiful contrast of colors compared to some of the Sentinel levels in the game. Of course, if we get a new DOOM game to make a trilogy there should be Hellish artstyles and such because it's DOOM, but the Alien-like skies and buildings are just magnificent. I liked it A LOT more than the Sentinel stuff even though it was also kind of cool

> I don't know if this is a hot take but I think Episode 4 of Ultimate DOOM might be the best episode there. It just has so many memorable missions and moments, even though E4M6 is a cluster fuck of a level without a guide. But I really love the 2nd mission

> I think the next game in the Nu-DOOM era should focus more on trying to find a way to modernize DOOM exploration as they did making a DOOM/Quake arena formula for combat. I think the older DOOM games were as much of (I believe people already believe this) exploration and maze-like traversal as it was of fighting enemies. I don't necessarily think this is a hot take but it would be interesting for me personally and I think most people who loved 2016 and more specifically Eternal want a more expansive combat 

I probably have some more but these are at the top of my head

[Nefelibeta]

bomp

 

 

Anyways while there's some sort of stereotype for monsters in game (ya know, monster priority that kind of things), same things could be applied to designing the encounters themselves as well. Things like hell knights/revenants are always the main dish of the fight (like rice or mashed potatoes), imps are always meant to be blown up, cybers are supposed to infight/snipe, pain elementals are supports. Of course it makes sense to be this way since that's just how the game was designed. However it doesn't need to be like that all the time though, especially if you want your encounters to be a little bit more unique/esoteric.

 

Here's a fight in HYSHW that I like a lot.

Spoiler

(played on HMP, though the only significant difference is less cacos/HKs)

 

This fight seems to be a pretty simple sandwich style fight but it's a lot of small ideas put together. Cacodemons are used as ground monsters, which is unexpectedly fun to push through with rockets, since they have lower health/a very high pain chance, making them a good middle ground between hellknights and imps. The mancubuses are decent for slowing down the hellknights coming from the other side. Although due to how cramped the 2 walkways on 2 sides are, you will need to intentionally bait them into infighting via camping in the corners, which adds a new layer to the fight and it's definitely unusual to see mancubuses used as an infight tool against hellknights (instead of imps.)

 

Here's another fight from Darkest Wave (sorry for the self-plug)

Spoiler

(I'm rebalancing my old maps therefore this fight is different, the new version isn't uploaded yet.)

(This attempt is pretty unlucky, the cyber got cornered and clawed to death and I got double-zapped to death when getting out lol. It's possible to avoid it however.)

 

Another case of a type of monster that isn't a good infighter used as one. The revenants that get released after you get out of the door do a surprisingly good job slowing down the hellknight crowd that teleport from behind, and makes rocketing them/clearing out the space much easier. In the original design, the revenants get instantly released along with the rest of the monsters. Admittedly I figured this out completely by accident, but that's the fun of iterative encounter designing I suppose.

[SleepyVelvet]

I could probably write a singular thread for this, but I love (or at least defend) bumpy floor geometry: stairs, divets, pieces of doom-cute riddled across the floor, etc.  In a similar vein as damaging floor, they change the way you have to budget your movement across a fight.  

 

I'll focus on stairs as an example first.  Going up the stairs is the same as running on a flat surface, but they make it so the other direction (going down the stairs) is more committable.  You slip a bit more if you go fast.  Stairs are clearly telegraphed when they show up because they appear as... well stairs.  These movement concepts can be internalized just like the effects of damaging floors can.  Stuff like general bitty geometry, stuff that's harder to pick up on, is harder to defend in that regard, but in theory similar principles can be applied to them too.

 

I actually get disappointed when I walk over a bowl shaped, layered floor in a slaughter-fight, only to find out it's just cosmetic and instead all filled in with fake-floor.

Edited July 7, 2023 by NoisyVelvet
principal,principle, commital,commitable

[Catpho]

1 minute ago, NoisyVelvet said:

I actually get disappointed when I walk over a bowl shaped, layered floor in a slaughter-fight, only to find out it's just cosmetic and instead all filled in with fake-floor.

SD20x7 MAP08b: The Fallroom

[Naan]

From some of the latest topics over here:

- I don't get why Baron's Den is somewhat universally considered as one of the worst maps from TNT: Evilution. To me it's just a somewhat average map.

- I do like the texture filtering from GZDoom (OpenGL renderer?). Or at least I got used to it I guess?

[Doomy__Doom]

17 minutes ago, NoisyVelvet said:

Going up the stairs is the same as running on a flat surface, but they make it so the other direction (going down the stairs) is more committable.  You slip a bit more if you go fast.

Stairs are amazing at adding spice and weird "platforming" to a fight.

 

Shameless plug: my 2 enemy cp contribution features a fight designed around constantly juggling awkward staircase momentum (just don't fall lmao), 2 revenant pyramids (right, in the darkness) doing revenant pyramid things and the need to make progress on rocketing pinky horde (left) before the bars go down and they flood the stairs, taking away the ability to do a full circle.

 

Map 40 from the same project has a completely different take on stairs - a weirdly shaped floor with deceptively difficult pathing where you have to dodge a group of roaming and sniping cyberdemons. Even though there are no pits, it's still pretty much a platforming fight - you're just trying to not run into death walls and pockets instead. Invulns, while helpful in the not dying department, mess with perception of color-coded paths, so if you get seduced by efficient BFG usage and get flung by rockets somewhere random it can be not so easy to quickly reorient yourself.

[Herr Dethnout]

Doom 1 is the Best, and if somebody dares to disrespect it I will make you to eat every word...

[baja blast rd.]

I appreciate this thread because I can harvest it for ideas. (One of the SSGs is stuck in the ground, which wasn't intended because the heights are randomized but fits perfectly.)

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Herr Dethnout]

On 7/7/2023 at 1:50 PM, baja blast rd. said:

I appreciate this thread because I can harvest it for ideas. (One of the SSGs is stuck in the ground, which wasn't intended because the heights are randomized but fits perfectly.)

 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

wow.wad part 2

[Maribo]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:50 PM, baja blast rd. said:

I appreciate this thread because I can harvest it for ideas. (One of the SSGs is stuck in the ground, which wasn't intended because the heights are randomized but fits perfectly.)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Put a berserk in this map and give it to me.

[Ozcar]

I think people are exaggerating a lot about the design level of doom 2 imho. Sure it has hit or miss level design, but it's not the worst level design in fps games either. There are some fps games that have worse level design than doom 2, like marathon, redneck rampage and tekkwar.

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Ozcar

[orffen]

Not sure if unpopular, but 640x400 is at least twice as good as 320x200 resolution, but on widescreen monitors anything x400 is best. 

[rita remton]

i wish a well-known playtester, that have playtested hundreds or perhaps even thousands of maps, would just at least publicly publish a map or two. i do believe the vast experience the playtester has accumulated over the years would translate into maps with incredibly awesome gameplay. just wishful thinking :)

[Alfiq]

Unholy Cathedral and Slough of Despair are good maps

 

Fortress of Mystery isn't that bad

 

Mt. Erebus is one of the worst maps in the game

[Terrcraft]

The dark lord is a good final boss for a doom game

It is not a good "Fighting the leader of the demons since the first game 20 years ago" avengers endgame-like conclusion to doom.