Unpopular Doom Opinions

[Pechudin]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:47 PM, RataUnderground said:

Playing a map with infinitely tall monsters disabled in the sourceport is cheating.

I'm fine with people playing however but sometimes when people playtest and have it off uhhhhhhhhhh. Especially with Cacoswarms.

[Kwisior]

Eternal is pretty boring once you grasp the combat, but at least it's not Ultrakill...

[Cruduxy Pegg]

12 hours ago, PhoenixBlade said:

They may be fun to fight if you're a diehard fan who's base difficulty is Ultra-Violence, but for the more casual player they get old really quick. The levels made for the game are also poor overall, save for a few 

The doom 2 demons are barely used in Doom 2 especially on lower difficulties، and all the archviles in it are so hilariously boxed they end up barely more threatening than a chain gunner. (All the trickier viles only spawn on UV too).

 

Doesn't make sense to call out UV try hards for "problems" that don't exist to begin with on lower difficulties.

[PhoenixBlade]

5 hours ago, Pegg said:

The doom 2 demons are barely used in Doom 2 especially on lower difficulties، and all the archviles in it are so hilariously boxed they end up barely more threatening than a chain gunner. (All the trickier viles only spawn on UV too).

 

Doesn't make sense to call out UV try hards for "problems" that don't exist to begin with on lower difficulties.

You may have a point when it comes to Vanilla Doom 2, but that didn't stop thousands of wads from spamming those enemy types like they were going out of style. Even in high quality ones, enemies like the arch vile and revenant wear out their welcome.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

1 hour ago, PhoenixBlade said:

You may have a point when it comes to Vanilla Doom 2, but that didn't stop thousands of wads from spamming those enemy types like they were going out of style. Even in high quality ones, enemies like the arch vile and revenant wear out their welcome.

Alright but that's often a complaint about pwads not the Iwads where they had a lot more restraint with the mobs. I am not sure we can do anything about it to be honest, mass revs/viles/pes is always complained about around here but it goes in hand with hand with wads only implementing UV or lower difficulties having no testing / little changes.

[DoomGappy]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:30 AM, Amaruψ said:

Tim Willits' maps are far worst than Sandy Petersen's. 

I'm playing this guy's maps, and besides hating his guts for being a hack, yeah, his maps are terrible. There is always something off about every place he creates. Probably has no sense of artistic style or narrative. All his maps feel soulless, like oblige creations. I might end up writing a rant about it later.

[Treehouseminis]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:31 PM, PhoenixBlade said:

You may have a point when it comes to Vanilla Doom 2, but that didn't stop thousands of wads from spamming those enemy types like they were going out of style. Even in high quality ones, enemies like the arch vile and revenant wear out their welcome.

I found revenant wake up/scream sound and used it as a ring tone before.  I love the boney bois.  Though my current map I'm working on has almost too many revs... I'm gonna not put them in the final area if I can help it lol

[tamara mochaccina]

The Hell Knight is husband material.
Nah, but really, the classic Hell Knight is my favourite Doom enemy.

[Gothic Box]

UDMF can be a trap for new mappers. There are so many mediocre UDMF maps that consist of square and under-detailed rooms but have 3D floors, slopes, ACS scripting, and other ZDoom doodads galore that the author clearly spent loads of time learning and working on. I fell into that trap during a now-cancelled community project some years back, when I dedicated so much of my focus towards these features that everything else suffered as a result.

[bofu]

6 minutes ago, Gothic Box said:

UDMF can be a trap for new mappers. There are so many mediocre UDMF maps that consist of square and under-detailed rooms but have 3D floors, slopes, ACS scripting, and other ZDoom doodads galore that the author clearly spent loads of time learning and working on. I fell into that trap during a now-cancelled community project some years back, when I dedicated so much of my focus towards these features that everything else suffered as a result.

This is why I recommend new mappers make a few levels in vanilla/limit-removing Doom format first. It's easy to get overwhelmed by the shiny new features without a good foundation.

[MoiraHeart]

26 minutes ago, Gothic Box said:

UDMF can be a trap for new mappers. There are so many mediocre UDMF maps that consist of square and under-detailed rooms but have 3D floors, slopes, ACS scripting, and other ZDoom doodads galore that the author clearly spent loads of time learning and working on. I fell into that trap during a now-cancelled community project some years back, when I dedicated so much of my focus towards these features that everything else suffered as a result.

Honestly I wish there was a middleman - a format that is not bloated with every feature conceivable, but also that would allow not to rely on ancient trickery for any map logic.

[Koko Ricky]

56 minutes ago, MoiraHeart said:

Honestly I wish there was a middleman - a format that is not bloated with every feature conceivable, but also that would allow not to rely on ancient trickery for any map logic.

100% on this. I love being able to have what I consider basic features like slopes, texture scaling, 3D floors, colored and point/spot lights, etc. But it also has a ton of extras I don't touch and may never get around to, and as a result it has a rather intimidating UI. Also, with there being multiple scripting formats, and coding being something people like me find a bit too cognitively difficult, adding scripted sequences is daunting.  

[Koko Ricky]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:05 AM, Kwisior said:

Eternal is pretty boring once you grasp the combat, but at least it's not Ultrakill...

I've realized after replaying it a few times that it's a very set piece-oriented game. It's clear that there is thought that goes into the dimensionality of each space and how you can meaningfully move around in it, but the broad sense of navigation does cause boredom to eventually set in. You're funneled through a series of locked arenas with sporadic travel bits in between, with exploration being mostly relegated to an additional room, cubby, or hallway. OG Doom's focus on small, tight maps (even Doom 2's larger maps aren't all that big) with multiple methods of approach is something that has seemingly been ignored since Doom 64. 

[Average]

Bobby Prince's composing isn't as good as people say it is.  Doom's soundtrack is only 'legendary' because it's attached to a landmark game.  If the soundtrack had been in a throwaway title nobody would be recording covers of it and nobody would be talking about it in EVERY. SINGLE. YOUTUBE. RETROSPECTIVE like it's some kind of masterpiece.  Everyone knows it's mostly just ripped riffs and basic blues.  There.  I said it. *phew*

[tamara mochaccina]

33 minutes ago, Average said:

Bobby Prince's composing isn't as good as people say it is.

I think his music actually fits, thematically, with the game that DOOM is.

With a game that so clearly takes inspiration from action + horror movie tropes of the time it came out in, it only makes sense that the music would match that by being tributes to the music of the era.

I think DOOMscourse would benefit greatly by talking about the soundtrack on a conceptual level, rather than acting as if though it was a huge breakthrough in music. i mean for fuck's sake No Remorse came out 10 years before

Edited January 2 by tamara mochaccina

[roadworx]

6 minutes ago, Average said:

Bobby Prince's composing isn't as good as people say it is.  Doom's soundtrack is only 'legendary' because it's attached to a landmark game.  If the soundtrack had been in a throwaway title nobody would be recording covers of it and nobody would be talking about it in EVERY. SINGLE. YOUTUBE. RETROSPECTIVE like it's some kind of masterpiece.  Everyone knows it's mostly just ripped riffs and basic blues.  There.  I said it. *phew*

i mean. you're right lol. he's an okay composer, but i certainly wouldn't but him up there with contemporaries like tim follin, mark klem, and lee jackson

 

i do think he's made some good stuff, but most of it (keyword being most) wasn't in doom

[Endless]

42 minutes ago, Average said:

Bobby Prince's composing isn't as good as people say it is.  Doom's soundtrack is only 'legendary' because it's attached to a landmark game.  If the soundtrack had been in a throwaway title nobody would be recording covers of it and nobody would be talking about it in EVERY. SINGLE. YOUTUBE. RETROSPECTIVE like it's some kind of masterpiece.  Everyone knows it's mostly just ripped riffs and basic blues.  There.  I said it. *phew*

He made Sign of Evil, which is an original masterpiece (and seems to not be a straight rip-off like a lot of other songs from the OST) so that in my book makes him legendary as fuck.

 

 

[DankMetal]

22 minutes ago, Endless said:

He made Sign of Evil, which is an original masterpiece (and seems to not be a straight rip-off like a lot of other songs from the OST) so that in my book makes him legendary as fuck.

 

 

He also made Message for the Archvile, that guitar solo fucking slaps, but overall, the full song is a masterpiece too

 

 

[LightningBoltForever]

2 hours ago, Average said:

[...] If the soundtrack had been in a throwaway title nobody would be recording covers of it and nobody would be talking about it in EVERY. SINGLE. YOUTUBE. RETROSPECTIVE like it's some kind of masterpiece.  Everyone knows it's mostly just ripped riffs and basic blues. [...]

 

Interesting, I was actually just in the middle of writing about this very thing for a video lol

[Kwisior]

4 hours ago, Koko Ricky said:

I've realized after replaying it a few times that it's a very set piece-oriented game. It's clear that there is thought that goes into the dimensionality of each space and how you can meaningfully move around in it, but the broad sense of navigation does cause boredom to eventually set in.

For sure. What I also meant is that alot of the fights feel samey once you "get it", which might be because of the lack of resource management, taken even further in Ultrakill. 

I think that this management along with some other factors is precisely what gave the classic FPS games so much more potential for variety compared to those arena shooters.

Edited January 2 by Kwisior

[SPACEDETECTIVE]

Nine times outta ten, I HATE fighting cyberdemons. They have way too much health and do way too much damage. I'm a terrible cyberdemon duelist so a lot of the time it feels like banging my head against the wall when fighting those big bastards.

[The Doommer]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:38 AM, nathanB404 said:

It's Gen Z brain rot doom.

Whether you like the game or not that's your opinion and I respect that

But let's not pull stuff like this.

 

On 12/27/2023 at 9:25 AM, Xim said:

It's also the last Doom game that feels like classic Doom.

I kinda disagree. Regardless of the discussion about whether Doom 16 and Eternal are classic Doom or not

Doom 3 leaned a lot on the horror element, which while classic Doom did have it a bit (the section in E1 where the lights turn off and you get jumped by imps comes to mind) it was never the focus. And Classic Doom while being puzzle-based did give you a map to understand where you were going. Unlike Doom 3 where some of the levels got pretty complicated with no map to help you find your way.

 

On 12/27/2023 at 7:57 AM, fruity lerlups said:

Because it completely eliminates any resource management,

That's a very fair argument.

However, classic Doom also never leaned a lot on resource management. Except for the big guns like BFG/Plasma Rifle, the other types of ammo are pretty common.

On 12/27/2023 at 5:58 AM, riktoi said:

Jeez, people can like a thing even if it has flaws. Big flaws, even. You should consider that this is not "your doom", has not been for 30 years.

Yeah, pretty much my issue with takes like this. I can respect people not liking what I like. That's what opinions are, but when it comes down to personal attacks I feel like it's taken way too far.

[NeoWorm]

My unpopular opinion is that Eternal being bad DooM game is not unpopular opinion. That game is crap and with time more and more people realize that.

[Kwisior]

14 hours ago, The Doommer said:

That's a very fair argument.

However, classic Doom also never leaned a lot on resource management. Except for the big guns like BFG/Plasma Rifle, the other types of ammo are pretty common.

Don't forget health management. All the means to regenerate it are a big reason why DE is so damn easy compared to games like Shadow Warrior for example (except the Master Levels and Ultra-Nightmare of course).

[Li'l devil]

It seems that the term gigawad is very unpopular and I even saw people refering to this term as a joke. But IMO, this is exactly the right word to describe monstrosities like RAMPs. Or even various Maximum/Mega projects, DUMPs, JoMs, etc.

 

Speaking of which, I think standard 30 (32) map megawads are already too large, at least with average map size. People with shorter attention span like me often struggle to play them past map 10-15 without serious effort and commitment. Especially if the megawad has only one or very few themes.

[Pechudin]

3 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

gigawad

 

Now I'm imagining sigma chad music with a floppy disc for the head and the gigachad guy.

[fruity lerlups]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:43 PM, The Doommer said:

That's a very fair argument.

However, classic Doom also never leaned a lot on resource management. Except for the big guns like BFG/Plasma Rifle, the other types of ammo are pretty common..

because ammo is the only resource management that matters. I remember being able to icebomb, flamebelch and then bloodpunch a crowd of demons 8 times in Doom 2

[fruity lerlups]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:29 AM, MoiraHeart said:

Honestly I wish there was a middleman - a format that is not bloated with every feature conceivable, but also that would allow not to rely on ancient trickery for any map logic.

yeah maybe a friend for modders, some kind of Modders Best Friend.. especially a Modders Best Friend that gets regular updates whilst maintaining backwards compatibility with Boom but onky every few years to prevent feature creep, like in 2021.. a Modders Best Friend 21 maybe

[roadworx]

On 1/3/2024 at 7:02 AM, NeoWorm said:

My unpopular opinion is that Eternal being bad DooM game is not unpopular opinion. That game is crap and with time more and more people realize that.

it's funny that you say that while being a fan of hexen :p

 

[MoiraHeart]

6 hours ago, fruity lerlups said:

yeah maybe a friend for modders, some kind of Modders Best Friend.. especially a Modders Best Friend that gets regular updates whilst maintaining backwards compatibility with Boom but onky every few years to prevent feature creep, like in 2021.. a Modders Best Friend 21 maybe

Still have to use conveyor trickery in MBF, or am I missing something?