Unpopular Doom Opinions

[roadworx]

1 hour ago, Ravendesk said:

Do you have any data to back that up?

no, because they're wrong lol

 

most people who play the game but aren't super into it like we are (or lack the technical skills to set up gzdoom) will likely be using the unity port, which tries to stay close to vanilla, lacks freelook and jumping, and can't run brutal doom.

[LexiMax]

8 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

Do you even realize how many people tried original DooM only because they saw Brutal DooM somewhere? People around here quite hate on Brutal DooM, but that is what original DooM is for anybody who doesn't have account on DooMworld.

 

This is what classic Doom is for anybody who doesn't have an account on Doomworld.

• https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/doom-1993-switch/
• https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/doom-1993/9PLZPHBNHTMF
• https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP1003-CUSA15594_00-DOOM199300000000
• https://store.steampowered.com/app/2280/DOOM_1993/

For this crowd, Doom mods are the sorts of things you can easily download and play on these ports.  Think Sigil and BTSX, not Brutal Doom.

Edited January 21 by LexiMax

[Explorer of Time]

I know this may be unpopular, but this is the unpopular opinion thread, so...

 

I like Hell Maps better than Techbase Maps. The latter feel cold and sterile, are often cramped and have few open rooms, and, in a game about fighting demons, don't fit the enemies you fight very well outside of "corrupted techbase" maps like most of the original E2.

 

In contrast, I personally think that most Hell Maps look beautiful and Doom's monsters feel right at home in them.

Edited January 21 by Explorer of Time

[treulosetomate]

I can anecdotally confirm that most people I talk to about Doom are playing with the Unity port and only play the same vanilla WADs officially sanctioned by Bethesda. They don't even have the patience to install and setup any other source port.

[roadworx]

people who recommend scythe as a beginner wad should be put into a catapult and be shot straight into a brick wall

Edited January 22 by roadworx

[Terrcraft]

I use hardware renderer because i prefer a 120 fov above all else.

[Jacek Bourne]

4 hours ago, roadworx said:

people who recommend scythe as a beginner wad should be put into a catapult and be shot straight into a brick wall

 
Why’s that?

[NeoWorm]

14 hours ago, treulosetomate said:

I can anecdotally confirm that most people I talk to about Doom are playing with the Unity port and only play the same vanilla WADs officially sanctioned by Bethesda. They don't even have the patience to install and setup any other source port.

 

On the other hand, I am seeing people going straight for flashiest mods out there.

 

Either way, what was the latest most popular thing that brought DooM to mainstream again? myhouse.wad... That is the stuff that brings people to DooM, not vanilla megawads.

[xdarkmasterx]

2 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

 
Why’s that?

[LexiMax]

6 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

Either way, what was the latest most popular thing that brought DooM to mainstream again?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_Eternal

 

I think you vastly underestimate the number of gamers who do not own PC's and whose only engagement with MyHouse was to watch a YouTuber play through the level.

Edited January 22 by LexiMax

[NeoWorm]

15 minutes ago, LexiMax said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_Eternal

 

I think you vastly underestimate the number of gamers who do not own PC's and whose only engagement with MyHouse was to watch a YouTuber play through the level.

 

That doesn't mean that their expectation of classic DooM is not massively modded classic DooM first. Even more so if you think about it.

[Noiser]

5 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

 

That doesn't mean that their expectation of classic DooM is not massively modded classic DooM first. Even more so if you think about it.

I think you are missing the point. What I meant to say is - no matter how much people prefer gzdoom over vanilla, the community as a whole already is a niche. Discussing which one is "nicher" in such a small community is a petty argument imo, totally irrelevant at the end of the spectrum.

Edited January 22 by Noiser

[Egg Boy]

All the Doom games are good, none of them are bad.

[Andromeda]

13 hours ago, roadworx said:

people who recommend scythe as a beginner wad should be put into a catapult and be shot straight into a brick wall

Indeed, Sunlust should be the recommendation nowadays.

[faceplant641]

10 hours ago, xdarkmasterx said:

Ugh.  I'm playing Scythe for the first time right now and I'm about two tries away from idcleving right past Map28.  

 

Yet, weirdly enough, I really liked Eviternity 2 map33...

[Koko Ricky]

I don't tend to find slaughter maps especially appealing because, much like overly large maps, there's a point at which a certain gameplay element is pushed so far as to, at least for folks like me, become tedious and frustrating more than fun.

[valkiriforce]

I feel like I've said this before perhaps in an older thread, but I find the idea of death exits a tiring concept. I understand the reason is to rid the player of powerful weapons going into easier maps or different episodes, but people tend to pistol start maps quite often these days anyway, and I personally prefer to breeze through mapsets with whatever weapons I've found along the way.

[Devalaous]

12 minutes ago, valkiriforce said:

I feel like I've said this before perhaps in an older thread, but I find the idea of death exits a tiring concept. I understand the reason is to rid the player of powerful weapons going into easier maps or different episodes, but people tend to pistol start maps quite often these days anyway, and I personally prefer to breeze through mapsets with whatever weapons I've found along the way.

 

This is why we need UMAPINFO to support clearing inventory like what ZMAPINFO can do, its so much cleaner than awkwardly dying. In some maps, like Eternal Doom's 'Drop Em', I actually still kept my inventory despite the death exit, so they arent even flawless.

 

On 1/22/2024 at 7:30 AM, LexiMax said:

 

This is what classic Doom is for anybody who doesn't have an account on Doomworld.

• https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/doom-1993-switch/
• https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/doom-1993/9PLZPHBNHTMF
• https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP1003-CUSA15594_00-DOOM199300000000
• https://store.steampowered.com/app/2280/DOOM_1993/

For this crowd, Doom mods are the sorts of things you can easily download and play on these ports.  Think Sigil and BTSX, not Brutal Doom.

 

On 1/22/2024 at 7:51 AM, treulosetomate said:

I can anecdotally confirm that most people I talk to about Doom are playing with the Unity port and only play the same vanilla WADs officially sanctioned by Bethesda. They don't even have the patience to install and setup any other source port.

 

This particular crowd is exactly who my Unity ports of classic megawads was aimed at, and I had quite a few thanks from them for making them so simple to install while keeping them feeling like the official ones most of the time (Not all of them had demos or widescreen graphics, I cant supply those from scratch)

Edited January 22 by Devalaous

[roadworx]

i think that death exits can be fun, though they're often overused because of how prevalent the scythe 2 episode structure has become (which imo is a much more tired concept).

[Deadwing]

39 minutes ago, valkiriforce said:

I feel like I've said this before perhaps in an older thread, but I find the idea of death exits a tiring concept. I understand the reason is to rid the player of powerful weapons going into easier maps or different episodes, but people tend to pistol start maps quite often these days anyway, and I personally prefer to breeze through mapsets with whatever weapons I've found along the way.

 

I'm probably in the minority that plays continous lol So tbh I enjoy the idea of death exit, nowadays it's better just to divide the maps into episodes with umapinfo though :P

[valkiriforce]

I definitely agree UMAPINFO would be a much less disruptive way of doing it - I probably wouldn't mind it as much if it were structured that way.

[Maribo]

Worth noting that because UMAPINFO doesn't give the player an option to continue past the end of an episode and instead forcibly boots them to a menu, it completely removes the potential for D2ALL speedruns/movies. Which, of course, is totally fine and up to the mapper, but I wouldn't really agree that it's straight up a better solution as it comes with its own set of limitations.

[NeoWorm]

18 hours ago, Noiser said:

I think you are missing the point. What I meant to say is - no matter how much people prefer gzdoom over vanilla, the community as a whole already is a niche. Discussing which one is "nicher" in such a small community is a petty argument imo, totally irrelevant at the end of the spectrum.

 

We already moved topics at least twice. This all started with a post that more mappers should embrace jumping and modern features, than moved to if DooM is more about vanilla or modded stuff and ended up about how niche what part of DooM community is.

 

None of which really matter, but it showed how much everybody perception of the DooM games is.

 

People outside really think about DooM as something to be modded first, because if they hear about DooM its because some interesting mod has been released. It doesn't matter if they play it or not, that is what they see, and that is usually what brings them to try DooM. And they often prefer it that way.
Vanilla mappacks are dime a dozen and most of them are just boring stuff we seen hundred times before. You may prefer stuff like this, that's all fine, but you have to admit, there is flood of boring megawads that are effectively interchangable. If there is something more substantial, it gets usually lost in the flood.

 

Those are my points and I really think they are right, at least nobody here gave me any reason to think otherwise. And though I don't think that all mappers should start doing maps only for GZDooM and only modding the game, I don't think that expanding your repertoire and trying actually something more advanced without at least the "stupid" limits of vanilla (like infinite height) would just make better content for everybody.

[yakfak]

^ mappers and modders tend to make things that they themselves enjoy. this massive demand for ever more modded content you perceive would probably be filled by now if it was possible or desirable

Edited January 23 by yakfak

[elborbahquarama]

the fact that this official unity thing may allow a weird teenager somewhere to skip class and hide sitting on the toilets of the school all day long playing no end in sight on their switch makes it the absolute best way of experiencing doom possibly imaginable *insert meme of drake math class yikes doom screenshots yay*

[Amaruψ]

A majority of the graphical enhancements that come with GZDoom should be disabled by default. It's much easier to have the game look faithful to the original, and then the user can turn on whatever they prefer. Environmental dynamic lightings and fog effects are fine in my book and I even use them personally in my maps to make them pop more, but having them on by default (along with crap like texture filtering) is rather aggravating.

 

This minor rant was to save people from the medusa looking monstrosity known as texture filtering, which a new user never turns off for some bizarre reason. It should be a crime to use texture filtering with old games, because it makes everything looks like your eyes are out of focus or something.

[Koko Ricky]

2 minutes ago, Amaruψ said:

This minor rant was to save people from the medusa looking monstrosity known as texture filtering, which a new user never turns off for some bizarre reason. It should be a crime to use texture filtering with old games, because it makes everything looks like your eyes are out of focus or something.

 

I'm 100% with you on this, and it demonstrates how much variation can occur within perception of what one considers aesthetic. Doom's assets/textures were never meant to be filtered, and indeed none of the early 3D games were. N64 games look especially terrible with texture filtering (although there are minor exceptions, such as the way it smooths out water textures or fire), as there is literally nothing gained from smearing big blocky texels. I can't help but wonder what sort of aesthetic reason someone could use to justify filtering low-resolution content. It's like how YouTube will filter everything, including 144p videos, and it really doesn't make the video look any better by doing so when it's that low-res.

[Amaruψ]

10 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

 

We already moved topics at least twice. This all started with a post that more mappers should embrace jumping and modern features, than moved to if DooM is more about vanilla or modded stuff and ended up about how niche what part of DooM community is.

 

None of which really matter, but it showed how much everybody perception of the DooM games is.

 

People outside really think about DooM as something to be modded first, because if they hear about DooM its because some interesting mod has been released. It doesn't matter if they play it or not, that is what they see, and that is usually what brings them to try DooM. And they often prefer it that way.
Vanilla mappacks are dime a dozen and most of them are just boring stuff we seen hundred times before. You may prefer stuff like this, that's all fine, but you have to admit, there is flood of boring megawads that are effectively interchangable. If there is something more substantial, it gets usually lost in the flood.

 

Those are my points and I really think they are right, at least nobody here gave me any reason to think otherwise. And though I don't think that all mappers should start doing maps only for GZDooM and only modding the game, I don't think that expanding your repertoire and trying actually something more advanced without at least the "stupid" limits of vanilla (like infinite height) would just make better content for everybody.

 

In all fairness, outside of Valve's games I've never seen any FPS that had jumping as a prominent feature of the game. It's just there to help you maneuver through obstacles but a fair amount of time, it's just there. Also, there isn't anything particularly wrong with vanilla's limitations. If you're creative enough, you can essentially create a vanilla compatible map that works just as well with a more modern port, like GZDoom.

 

It's a rarity for me to see anybody use infinite height as an advantage too. A majority of the map packs that I've played rarely ever used it as an artificial barrier to block the player. So... you can simply turn off that limitation and play a majority of the maps as they are. Your rant implies that every other mapper puts torches below the platforms to limit someone. 

 

[Amaruψ]

3 minutes ago, Koko Ricky said:

 

 

 

I've never been more happy ever since the November update for Half-Life added a toggle for texture filtering for OpenGL mode across as GoldSRC games.

[Devalaous]

20 hours ago, Maribo said:

Worth noting that because UMAPINFO doesn't give the player an option to continue past the end of an episode and instead forcibly boots them to a menu, it completely removes the potential for D2ALL speedruns/movies. Which, of course, is totally fine and up to the mapper, but I wouldn't really agree that it's straight up a better solution as it comes with its own set of limitations.

 

???

 

I made a mod for the original Doom using UMAPINFO that turned it into a 36 map Doom-2 style continuous episode, then did the reverse for Doom 2, making it episodic