Thoughts on the Fallout Games?

[SilverMiner]

13 hours ago, StodgyAyatollah said:

Any actual benefits to going without it or is it just a preference? Out of all my playthroughs I've never considered not using it but I may have to try it at least once.

Comparing hires's 640x512 scaled 2x and 640x512 vanilla, (I have 1280x1024) the latter is faster in terms of drawing.

Also in vanilla you run the world map at very high speeds, even faster than when having a car [edit] with hires patch

Edited October 24, 2022 by SilverMiner

[mrthejoshmon]

Speaking of Fallout 76, I have actually been playing a fair bit of it and I must say I'm actually really impressed by what it has become compared to what it was.

 

The addition of an actual dialogue tree, faction reputation and actual choices with notable consequences were shocking to see to be frank. The gameplay used to be super jank with entire seconds being needed to register hits but they've fixed that, now the shooting is about on par with 4 (which was, admittedly, a 10-fold improvement over the previous entries) and the addition of human enemies brings a much-needed respite from the 1000 scorched fights.

 

A lot of the new weapons added are pretty good and the new quests are actually interesting, I'm a bit iffy over the inclusion of the Brotherhood as "literally how did they get here" but whatever, I'm thankful for being able to re-join my favourite xenophobic techno-religion (even if they are a pale shadow of the actual Brotherhood and are now just some lame fascism allegory, making them no different to the Enclave is not interesting at all).

 

Some of the additional areas are also mega:

 

Spoiler

I found an underwater cave filled with bioluminescent mutated flora with an eldritch abomination in it which also housed a pre-war superstructure that also was owned by pre-war ghoul communists? 

 

 

 

 

Shit was crazy

 

 

Overall I'd say it's worth a shot on sale, the multiplayer component can be largely ignored but what I like to do is hunt down lower level players, drop them like 15 to 20 stimpacks, leave and do not elaborate further.

[Rudolph]

9 hours ago, PsychEyeball said:

The only real con of this game is how overly buggy the game is.

Honestly, is there even a Fallout game out there that is not buggy? :S

 

And speaking of community content, does anyone know if there is such thing as a music replacement for Fallout 2? It appears the game mostly reuses Fallout 1's soundtrack so far and while I do not really mind it since Fallout 1's soundtrack is excellent, I reckon it would be nice to hear some new tracks.

 

3 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

Overall I'd say it's worth a shot on sale, the multiplayer component can be largely ignored

Wait, so Fallout 76 is no longer a multiplayer-only video game? Meaning that it can be played solo?

Edited October 24, 2022 by Rudolph

[Redneckerz]

4 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Honestly, is there even a Fallout game out there that is not buggy? :S

Fallen Earth Classic
 

4 hours ago, Rudolph said:

And speaking of community content, does anyone know if there is such thing as a music replacement for Fallout 2? It appears the game mostly reuses Fallout 1's soundtrack so far and while I do not really mind it since Fallout 1's soundtrack is excellent, I reckon it would be nice to hear some new tracks.

Sure. Takes some effort though.

 

4 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Wait, so Fallout 76 is no longer a multiplayer-only video game? Meaning that it can be played solo?

Depends on what you want.

[BGreener]

13 hours ago, PsychEyeball said:

Remember Fallout 3? Now you must locate your son, who got abducted while you and your spouse barely outran the end of the world (thanks to being invited to a Vault mere minutes before the bombs drop) and got put in cryosleep as part of your Vault experiment.

Their attempt at a “gut-wrenching and emotional” start still doesn’t set well with me, it creates a sense of emotional urgency that the rest of the game didn’t seem to acknowledge.

 

It seems better suited as a story for something more linear as opposed to the fun and “wanderin” open world they’ve been pushing in these recent Fallouts. When you’re desperately looking for your kid after seeing your spouse murdered, it seems real hard to justify cheerily assisting someone with quarry troubles.

 

There is at least a mod that helps with this. It makes you just another 76 cyro dweller with no relation to the murdered spouse and kidnapped child, and the dialog is amended appropriately.

[Rudolph]

58 minutes ago, BGrieber said:

It seems better suited as a story for something more linear as opposed to the fun and “wanderin” open world they’ve been pushing in these recent Fallouts. When you’re desperately looking for your kid after seeing your spouse murdered, it seems real hard to justify cheerily assisting someone with quarry troubles.

To be fair, both Fallout 1 and 2 are guilty of this as well in the sense that you are also sent on an urgent task where the lives of people close to you are at stake, yet you are still free to wander around and do whatever you feel like. Fallout 1 does try to force you down a more linear path with its time limit mechanic, but I do not believe that is enough to make the player feel emotionally invested in the quest to begin with.

 

New Vegas seems to have the ideal premise, as you start off as just a courier who got robbed over a seemingly unimportant casino chip.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Rudolph

[Wyrmwood]

1 hour ago, BGrieber said:

 

It seems better suited as a story for something more linear as opposed to the fun and “wanderin” open world they’ve been pushing in these recent Fallouts. When you’re desperately looking for your kid after seeing your spouse murdered, it seems real hard to justify cheerily assisting someone with quarry troubles.

 

I remember me and my girlfriend talking about that on release, joking that we hoped we'd be more concerned if one of our kids was missing. The mod you mentioned sounds interesting, how does the main quest line work though, the main premise is the search for your son. If you can't do all those quests that's a big chunk of gameplay missing.

 

I always assumed Bethesda did it to create a sense of urgency to the main quests so that people actually played them instead of playing 80hrs of side stuff and moving to another game without ever touching them. I've played a few characters in Skyrim now, I've never done the main quests past meeting the greybreards for any of them, so they may have had a point. It's the do what you want style gameplay that appeals to me about Bethesda's games though, if I want story I'll play a true CRPG, Skyrim and (modern)Fallout games I play as fantasy life simulators and like to make my own story. 

[mrthejoshmon]

5 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Wait, so Fallout 76 is no longer a multiplayer-only video game? Meaning that it can be played solo?

No, the multiplayer is still it's default setting however you can literally ignore it entirely, in fact player interaction is completely avoidable, that and the playerbase is also rather courteous to each other and will actively give you space, upon meeting a troublemaker you can just re-enter the game in a new server and avoid them that way.

 

Not only that but certain main quests are instanced to the payer/their team only, meaning that there is an actual singleplayer element to it.

 

And I suppose you can shell out for Fallout 1st membership that let's you make private worlds, I ain't doing that but it's an option.

Edited October 24, 2022 by mrthejoshmon

[Rudolph]

Interesting. So as a single-player experience, would you say that Fallout 76 is better or worse than Fallout 3 and 4?

Edited October 24, 2022 by Rudolph

[mrthejoshmon]

9 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Interesting. So as a single-player experience, would you say that Fallout 76 is better or worse than Fallout 3 and 4?

Controversial but I'd say it's better than 3 and on par with 4 but that's just my preference, it doesn't hold a candle to 1, 2, NV or even Tactics in my eyes but having tried to play through it again recently, 3 is an absolute disaster until you get to the DLC.

[Rudolph]

In regard to Fallout 2, is the Restoration Project worth checking out? I read that it restores many features that were left unfinished or on the cutting floor, but also that the new dialogue had to be written by the mod author and as such really does the game a disservice.

 

I am currently still early in Fallout 2 with the Unofficial Patch Upgraded, so I am wondering if I am really missing out on anything.

[mrthejoshmon]

I've only ever played vanilla Fallout 2 all the way through, never really checked out the restoration project.

 

I assume it depends on how much you like Fallout 2, could you see it as "just more Fallout 2"? If so then download it, if you're sceptical of the content included then don't.

[Wyrmwood]

34 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

 

I am currently still early in Fallout 2 with the Unofficial Patch Upgraded, so I am wondering if I am really missing out on anything.

 

I really wouldn't want to add that for a first playthrough (restoration not patch), if it's not to the same standard it may sour your experience.

 

Also read Black Isle left some stuff out as it just didn't work out. I can't remember if it was 1 or 2 but there was originally supposed to be a raccoon race that had bred from escaped test subjects. There's even a reference to it somewhere in the game. Personally I prefer Fallout without a load of Rocket Raccoon rejects, it just doesn't fit. A lot of times stuff ends on the cutting floor for a good reason not just because they ran out of time. Definitely be interesting to check it out though, just not first playthrough.

[Rudolph]

I see. I am asking because my experience of STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl was greatly improved by the reintroduction of cut features. Heck, in a completely different genre, I was pleased to be able to play "Biting The Bullet", the inexplicably cut Terran mission in StarCraft 1 that featured not only a playable Duke in a siege tank, but also the timely intervention of a playable Tassadar aboard a carrier.

 

But if you think Fallout 2 is good enough at it is (minus the bugs, that is), then I am willing to trust you. So far, I am having fun and I feel like the game flows better than Fallout 1. I made my brawler character a bit more intelligent this time around, but to my chagrin, most of the dialogue options come across as weirdly snide and mean-spirited and now, I am now sort of regretting making him able to form complete sentences... Oh well.

 

Also, I have met my greatest challenge yet in the form of a roaming child NPC who had me stuck in a corner and did not appear to be willing to move out of the way. Luckily, I had a backup save file ready, because holy shit, I probably would have smashed my screen in rage... XD

Edited October 24, 2022 by Rudolph

[StodgyAyatollah]

12 minutes ago, Wyrmwood said:

I can't remember if it was 1 or 2 but there was originally supposed to be a raccoon race that had bred from escaped test subjects. There's even a reference to it somewhere in the game.

I believe it was a computer or holodisk entry in the glow in FO1.  Would be hilarious if someone patched them in so you could encounter roving bands of hostile raccoon men. Yeah, cut content is often cut for a reason.

[Wyrmwood]

2 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

 

Also, I have met my greatest challenge yet in the form of a roaming child NPC who had me stuck in a corner and did not appear to be willing to move out of the way. Luckily, I had a backup save file ready, because holy shit, I probably would have smashed my screen in rage... XD

 

I remember my girlfriend defeating trolls and dragons in Skyrim but finally defeated by a hanging bunch of sausages she got stuck in! 

[BGreener]

1 hour ago, Wyrmwood said:

I remember me and my girlfriend talking about that on release, joking that we hoped we'd be more concerned if one of our kids was missing. The mod you mentioned sounds interesting, how does the main quest line work though, the main premise is the search for your son. If you can't do all those quests that's a big chunk of gameplay missing.

The quest’s are all still there, they’re just all edited to where it’s no longer your kid that’s missing. The mod’s called Start Me Up, it gives several start options with over 800 dialog changes to accommodate; you don’t even need to start as a vault dweller, if you don’t want.

 

The only other FO game that attempts this much of a personal and emotional backstory was 3, and I feel it was handled much better. The open world freedom is much more justifiable for a curious adult who recently came of age and is looking for their father.

[Wyrmwood]

@BGrieber, thank you, I'll give that a try next time I attempt a playthrough. I've started a few times before (computer changes, corrupted saves, problems with mods, etc) and it'll be worth it just to skip the opening 50s part.

[Rudolph]

The stark difference in quality between Bethesda's Fallout games and Obsidian's New Vegas is so confusing to me. I can sort of get Fallout 3 being what it is due to the challenge of reimagining Fallout not just as a FPS/RPG but also for a new generation of players who might not be familiar nor comfortable with the style of Fallout 1 and 2, but given the success of New Vegas, I would have expected Bethesda to use the latter as a template for Fallout 4.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Rudolph

[Wyrmwood]

27 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

The stark difference in quality between Bethesda's Fallout games and Obsidian's New Vegas is so confusing to me. I can sort of get Fallout 3 being what it is due to the challenge of reimagining Fallout not just as a FPS/RPG but also for a new generation of players who might not be familiar nor comfortable with the style of Fallout 1 and 2, but given the success of New Vegas, I would have expected Bethesda to use the latter as a template for Fallout 4.

 

Their two very different teams, Bethesda make great open worlds but Obsidian have much more experience of making RPGs. Some improvements Obsidian made did get carried over like more controllable companions, Bethesda made some too, Fallout 4 actually is FPS/RPG, 3 and NV are more like first person view RPGs, without v.a.t.s the gunplay ain't great.

 

Bethesda can't match Obsidians writing though, most of the guys there have worked some of the most successful and highly regarded RPGs of all time.

 

One other thing, New Vegas seems to be the most critically lauded modern Fallout but I think Fallout 3 was more commercially successful and I know plenty of people (mostly Skyrim fans) that prefer that one.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Wyrmwood

[Rudolph]

Ah, that makes more sense, I guess.

[Herr Dethnout]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

The stark difference in quality between Bethesda's Fallout games and Obsidian's New Vegas is so confusing to me. I can sort of get Fallout 3 being what it is due to the challenge of reimagining Fallout not just as a FPS/RPG but also for a new generation of players who might not be familiar nor comfortable with the style of Fallout 1 and 2, but given the success of New Vegas, I would have expected Bethesda to use the latter as a template for Fallout 4.

Adding to Wyrm said, Obsidian was founded by people from Black Isle Studios (the creators and developers of the original Fallout games), so that helped much on why New Vegas is good as Fallout 1/2

In that sense, we can say that NV is the real Fallout 3.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Herr Dethnout

[vyruss]

@Rudolph

Even though you've stated your dislike for Bethesda I would highly recommend picking up New Vegas whenever it's on the cheap on your platform of choice.  Then when you've done that, make sure you pick up the Wacky Wasteland perk to make the playthrough much more interesting.

[StodgyAyatollah]

1 minute ago, Herr Dethnout said:

In a way, we can say that NV is the real Fallout 3.

They incorporated a lot of stuff from the cancelled FO3 and they pretty much had that whole game planned. I imagine the complete design documents can still be found online fairly easily. It is worth noting that Tim Cain the actual creator of Fallout left interplay before FO2's release but after he wrote it's main quest and some side stuff to form Troika along with a couple other guys from the Fallout team. So in a sense Arcanum is the true Fallout 3. 

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, Herr Dethnout said:

Adding to Wyrm said, Obsidian was founded by people from Black Isle Studios (the creators and developers of the original Fallout games), so that helped much on why New Vegas is good as Fallout 1/2

I wonder what went wrong with The Outer Worlds. I guess the only way I can know for sure is by playing both New Vegas and The Outer Worlds.

 

At least, I hear that The Outer Worlds 2 is in the works, so I take it that the first one did well enough.

 

2 hours ago, vyruss said:

Even though you've stated your dislike for Bethesda I would highly recommend picking up New Vegas whenever it's on the cheap on your platform of choice.

Oh, I definitely will, do not worry! I just cannot get over how extra shitty it was of Bethesda to treat Obsidian like that after they achieved nothing short of a miracle for them. But yeah, as the saying goes, no ethical consumption under capitalism and all that jazz... -_-

 

2 hours ago, vyruss said:

Then when you've done that, make sure you pick up the Wacky Wasteland perk to make the playthrough much more interesting.

I looked it up out of curiosity and it is actually called "Wild Wasteland". So basically, it basically brings back the random encounters from Fallout 1 and 2?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Rudolph

[Capellan]

32 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I wonder what went wrong with The Outer Worlds. I guess the only way I can know for sure is by playing both New Vegas and The Outer Worlds.

 

I looked it up out of curiosity and it is actually called "Wild Wasteland". So basically, it basically brings back the random encounters from Fallout 1 and 2?

 

The Outer Worlds is an OK shooter with some OK RPG elements.  I don't regret playing it and will probably buy the sequel eventually (like, when it is $20 for GOTY) but it didn't ever quite gel into something I'd want to play more than once.

 

Wild Wasteland isn't about random encounters - it's about adding in more of the quirky, goofy, pop-culture reference stuff that the original games had, but Fallout 3 tended to exclude.  FNV is perfectly playable without it, but there is some fun stuff in there if you don't mind that it's in the "Ha!  That's a Star Wars/Indiana Jones/Princess Bride reference!" line of things.

[Rudolph]

10 minutes ago, Capellan said:

The Outer Worlds is an OK shooter with some OK RPG elements.  I don't regret playing it and will probably buy the sequel eventually (like, when it is $20 for GOTY) but it didn't ever quite gel into something I'd want to play more than once.

Yeah. I see that the game tried to come up with its own mascot, which is a fun reference to George Méliès' Le Voyage dans la Lune, but it is no Vault Boy.

 

Anyway, back to Fallout 2, I made it to Redding and I must say I am really enjoying the mining subplot.

 

In Fallout 1, I was generally uninterested in the quests that involved local politics, as they generally boiled down to choose between the Nice Guys Who Are Nice To You and the Cartoonishly Evil Bad Guys Who Will Try To Kill You If You Pick The Wrong Line Of Dialogue, Let Alone Talk To Them, and if it were not for the extra XP and gear, I would have gladly skipped them to focus on exploring Vaults and fighting mutants - which is probably why I was so pleased when I got to the Necropolis. In Redding, however, the conflict feels multilayered and believable: each faction representative makes sensible arguments for why they should be allowed to take over the town and it really feels like a genuine trilemma (yes, it is a word, look it up) that one would be face with in real life. It is such a shock to me, as prior to that point, I felt like Fallout 2, while much more enjoyable overall than Fallout 1, felt a bit too much like a rehash of its predecessor, minus the novelty.

 

Out of curiosity, those of you who played Fallout 2, which faction did you help take over Redding? The NCR, New Reno or Vault City?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Rudolph

[Wyrmwood]

@Rudolph don't know if you've played these yet but if you haven't Planescape Torment is on sale for a buck bundled with Icewind Dale over at Humble. Icewind Dale is a really good game (combat focused and fairly linear which put me off playing for a while but it's actually a great adventure) but Planescape Torment is absolutely fucking awesome. There's a slighty higher tier which adds the equally amazing Baldurs Gate games and the mediocre Neverwinter Nights which is redeemed a hundred times over with the thousands of community made modules for it.

 

If your starting to get the CRPG bug and like cool iso graphics you can't go wrong here

 

Humble Bundle RPG Legends

Edited October 25, 2022 by Wyrmwood

[Rudolph]

@Wyrmwood Hey, thanks! I did hear a lot of good about Planescape Torment, so I might as well check it out, even if I am usually not into Dungeons & Dragons and medieval fantasy - the only exceptions being Diablo (III) and WarCraft.

 

As for isometric graphics, well, funny you should mention this, because playing through Fallout 2, I could not help but feel like it was a double-edged sword: on one hand, it looks great, but on the other, it can make navigation so tedious and turn exploring the map into pixel-hunting. It really makes me wish there was a way to rotate the camera, which I know is not possible in a sprite-based 2D game.

 

Anyway, thanks again for the recommendation! I truly appreciate you helping me discover games I am not familiar with.

 

EDIT: Ah, crap. Humble Bundle has currently run out of Steam keys and the offer does not come with a direct download link. :S

Edited October 25, 2022 by Rudolph

[Wyrmwood]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

EDIT: Ah, crap. Humble Bundle has currently run out of Steam keys and the offer does not come with a direct download link. :S

 

That sucks, figured it would be a popular deal, guess it was too popular.

 

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

As for isometric graphics, well, funny you should mention this, because playing through Fallout 2, I could not help but feel like it was a double-edged sword: on one hand, it looks great, but on the other, it can make navigation so tedious and turn exploring the map into pixel-hunting. It really makes me wish there was a way to rotate the camera, which I know is not possible in a sprite-based 2D game.

 

In a way the pixel hunt thing is partly because we're running the games at a higher resolution than what they designed for, I assume your using an HD Patch for Fallout. My first few playthroughs of the Infinity Engine games (Baldurs Gate, etc) I played the original un-enhanced versions with an HD patch and looting corpses was sometimes clicking on a 2 pixel big ring or something, major eyestrain. It's fixed in Beamdogs versions though, there's a loot button that shows everything on the ground within a certain range. They also let you zoom in, although obviously it's just reducing the resolution on the fly, very pixelated at full zoom.

 

You shouldn't need to rotate the camera though, the games are designed from that angle. Later similar games like the Neverwinter titles use real 3d and you can rotate but they don't look as pretty and to be honest changing the camera angle all the times a pain in the ass. I'd actually cite messing with the camera all the time as Neverwinter Nights 2 biggest flaw.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Wyrmwood