Thoughts on the Fallout Games?

[dasho]

47 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Even the main quest does not feel like there is a big sense of urgency to it, despite the time limit: so a bunch of people that I do not even know or get to know are sending me in a hostile world on my own to fetch an item that is supposedly vital to a place that I do not even get to familiarize myself with, yet none of them are willing to help me or accompany me in any capacity, and I am supposed to care?

 

Did you skip through the literal first conversation of the game with one of the important (cuts away to 3D animated "talking head") NPCs and also not talk to anyone in the vault on your way out the door?

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

19 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Damn, for my current playthrough, I have decided to basically role-play as the Doomslayer in the sense that I have put all my points into Endurance, Strength and Agility so I could rip and tear, so to speak. Unfortunately, I had to do it at the expense of other stats and now my character cannot speak and everybody is calling me a literal moron.

No offense, but putting all of your points into physical traits in a CRPG is like the biggest n00b mistake ever. If a game is a proper RPG and has a speech/charisma trait, neglecting that stat will usually lead to boredom, because you're making a combat-focused character in a genre where combat is typically the least entertaining aspect. You're missing out on half the fun. A good CRPG should focus just as much, if not more, on dialogue as it does on combat. Combat in Fallout has never been the draw of the game. I do find VATS in 3/NV/4 to be extremely satisfying most of the time though. A physical build is actually ok in Fallout 4, you aren't missing out on much in terms of dialogue because the plot and dialogue in general in Fallout 4 is average at best. The best thing about 4 is the overall gameplay and exploration.

Edited October 17, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Rudolph]

Well, I am getting overwhelmed and frustrated with the game again: despite building my character to be a one-punch man, I am struggling to fight my way into the Raiders camp. I guess I could always start over as a more talkative character, but I do not feel like it, given how slow the game is and how there does not seem to be a way to skip combat with creatures: the moment one spots me, I see my movements get limited by Action Points and it does not seem like I can run away from fights. I might watch a longplay of the game instead, so I can experience the amazing atmosphere and worldbuilding.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Rudolph

[Xim]

10 hours ago, rzh said:

Not really, most of the stuff that gets released is for Fallout 2.

There's some mods for FO1 as well, but they're usually outdated or broken.

There is one mod that allows you to play FO1 in 2's engine, but it introduces some noticeable changes to the game. No purist option.

For FO2 I use Sfall.

I also highly recommend Fallout Nevada for FO2 (No relation to New Vegas' plot).

 There is "Fallout Fixit" for the first game. Would recommend it. Ads some handy features without changing the game too much. 

[HeatedChocolate]

For a young'un who has loved the Fallout series for as long as he can remember liking video games (Seriously, one of my first gaming-related memories is watching my dad blast away raiders in the Bison Steve hotel in Primm), I can confidently say that New Vegas is my personal favorite of the entire series. Not without flaws, most notably Dead Money, the entire atmosphere of the game just clicks more than 3 did. That's not to say that 3 and 4 aren't bad games, they're excellent in their own rights (Props to Far Harbor and The Pitt especially). Haven't played Tactics or 76, nor have I gotten far enough into 1 and 2 to form actual opinions, but if I had to rank the games (and also DLC, why not) of those that I have played, it'd go something like this:

1. New Vegas
2. Honest Hearts (Graham is great and I love me some M1911, Zion is also very nice)
3. Fah Habah
4. OWB (Just a big series of fetch quests but the characters carry it)
5. FO4
6. Lonesome Road (I love the Divide)
7. Pitt
8. FO3
9. The robot DLC for 4 (More random encounters to throw into the commonwealth's pot of chaos)
10. Dead Money (Fuck the radios, fuck the ghost people, fuck the cloud, fuck the holograms, but love the atmosphere and characters, Dean especially)
11. Nuka-World
12. Operation Anchorage (Cool idea, feels too rushed)

Edited October 17, 2022 by HeatedChocolate

[Rudolph]

I guess the best of both worlds would be a full-fledged remake of Fallout 1 and 2 in New Vegas style. I am surprised that Bethesda has yet to do that; it seems like a much safer bet than Fallout 76, a game that has been such a disaster that even I, a neophyte to the Fallout franchise, have heard about.

[TheFocus]

never played the pre-Bethesda ones.

FO3 was really cool, up until it wasn't. the main quest felt like it was kinda just spinning it's wheels after awhile, and the combat has not aged well at all. (the alien DLC was badass though)

 

New Vegas is definitely my favorite. i never get very far in the story, i'll end up just wandering the Mojave, taking it all in. i think my favorite thing about NV is the atmosphere, especially at night. the feeling of being low on ammo and resources, looking out at the surrounding areas, and then seeing the Vegas strip glowing in the distance is something i'll never forget. and of course, the RPG systems and overall depth of the experience is pretty much unmatched to this day. no playthrough is the same.

 

FO4 is...ok. there are very cool things about it, but those aspects are buried under a forced story, shallow speech options (and shallow game mechanics in general). Boston is an ok choice for a setting, but nothing super interesting is done with it. the character creator seems in-depth, but after awhile, you end up making the same character over and over with slight variations. in fact, that's pretty much FO4 in general. the game will funnel you down 3 or 4 lanes of "true player controlled leveling".

Bethesda shills will say "but the MODS are great, though!!" any game is more fun with mods.

 

FO76 is the worst Fallout game. you already knew this.

[heliumlamb]

fallout 1 & 2 are the best of their kind, i played them while hearing my peers at school talk about how great fallout 3 was.
in fo1 you GOTTA let the the super mutants give you a proper dunk at least once!

eventually i got a 360 and fallout3
what i remember most about fallout 3 was that the case that came with my copy ended up cracking the disc around the spindle-hole and the buyer pointing that out as i sold it. i did reach the end, though.

i tried playing new vegas like... 5-6 years ago. i could immediately tell that it wasn't a bethesda softworks game (positive), yet it felt -just enough- like a bethsoft game to still put my ass to sleep all the times i've tried it. new vegas is at least more of a "role playing" experience than anything bethsoft has made before or since. it's always a good when a roleplaying game implores you to play (as you feel like you're living up to) a role through to the end, rather than "reach ending" as you try to assume a role that the game just kind of ignores most of the way.

my experience/opinion is that every single one of bethsoft's worlds is just a vapid sprawl, save for morrowind, which is *almost* there. after my time with skyrim a decade ago, i'm not going to be hog wild about any future fallout games, unless a team outside of bethesda is involved.

 

(ironically, the only bethsoft game that has managed to hold my attention for more than a few hours/the one i have the most fun with is their most vapid mess, daggerfall.)

 

[SilverMiner]

I played only first two ones. Pretty good stuff.

Downloaded Fallout on 03/28 and Fallout 2 on 04/17 this year just cuz I had had a brief moment when I remembered that I saw the icon of Fallout 2 (the bearded head of a computer nerd) on one of dad's computers in like 2006-2008. I remember asking him if it was a 3d shooter, he said like it's isometric like Diablo(haven't played it), and he was like you'd better tried Morrowind (he also hadn't played Fallout 2, but tried a PDA port of FO1 having only one playable location, probably the vault). I remember that Morrowind was present on the computers I could play on for quite some time, I may have even played it once, but I don't remember at all. But I do definitely remember Serious Sam 2 icon and the blue people with the gold earrings, it was in like in early spring or late winter and that's pretty much it.

 

The reason I didn't even try to run the game[FO2] at the time was maybe because my dad once said that games should be played starting with the first installments, like that's the right way to do. (I still agree with him on this point to this day, and also that's may be the reason I asked dad to run Doom for me instead of Doom II despite it was even more unstable (Doom95 port on his PDA). He also had Monkey Island 2 on PDA, but at the time I didn't even ask what game was in the folder "MONKEY2". I seem to had been distracted by other games that time, also forgetting Doom I,II for like 3 years)

 

In FO1 I spent some time in player setup and was like "how fucking coherent and classy everything looks!". I created a skilled gifted stupid character and when I got to level 4 in vault 15, I got like too little skill points, chose a perk that'd give me 2 skill points more per level, and there I realized I created a cursed setup, on the second try I had an IN 3 or 2 or 1 character, and I didn't like a zombie from Necropolis calling me a punching bag just because I tried to talk to him, and I quit. And from the third try I created an ST 2, IN 10 gifted jinxed guy and with this set I got through the game. Technically, I had no problem playing it, the worst aspect of the game is maybe having to backtrack at times, also getting water chip was kinda boring because of the low speed of how the player uses manholes, ladders and slow moving lifts, also having to wait the character holsters his weapon, ugh. The best armor I got at that playthru was tesla one, and the leather one most of the time. Never ran out of the water quest time.

 

FO2 felt like it was rebalanced, had some gameplay improving tweaks like better followers system. But I think there's a lot of mixed content, and I didn't explore every location simply because there was nothing motivating me to do it(also the world travel speed was like lol, I won't go there just because it's slow). The main quest is horrible. Hakunin scared me a lot, appearing from the black screen at some times asking for a geck. The most annoying part was travelling to San Francisco and Navarro. It's slow, there was a lot of patrols, fire geckos and deathclaws, I mostly ran away and it became kind of a chore. Having to travel slowly for multiple times just to setup the tanker also was annoying. (now I'm playing unpatched FO2 and travelling at high speeds not even encountering anybody)

 

Fallouts made a great impression on me, and I got a better understanding of gameplay balance and atmosphere. Since I tried them, I noticed that the Stalker games took a lot of inspiration from there, but there is very little content and things to do maybe because of cut-out stuff. It feels like Fallout 2 is made up of everything the developers made up, and I get the feeling that if anything could have been cut out for good (like temple of trials), they didn't do it, and I like it. And stalker to me now looks like a pathetic trimmed down game. Yes, there are plenty of mods that restore the cut content. But I'm not satisfied with any one of them, because somewhere the color of lighting is wrong, somewhere the hands are holding the weapon as in clear sky and CoP, somewhere savegames corrupt after X16. And I already have a clear idea of what my dream stalker game looks like. Maybe someday I'll go modding it, who knows.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chezza]

I wish Fallout 76 map was available in singleplayer including VATs and better missions / dialogue (not the typical multiplayer grindy ones).

 

The map is quite good with interesting points of interest / biomes. The game includes the Fallout 4 dlc monsters and weapons etc. So there is plenty of content in those regards.

 

I wanted to like 76, even with its many many flaws but it significantly exacerbates all the weaknesses of Bethesda's Fallout games and removes some of their redeeming qualities to accommodate for a duct taped online game filled with microtransactions.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Chezza

[Wyrmwood]

6 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Well, I am getting overwhelmed and frustrated with the game again: despite building my character to be a one-punch man, I am struggling to fight my way into the Raiders camp.

 

That's probably because hitting stuff is your characters only option, you can negotiate with them or do what I did and pretend to and then screw them over inside the house or you could sneak in an do a silent rescue. You should also have a least 1 extra party member for this section but you may not have been able to recruit them.

 

The way your trying to play might be ok for someone who's played through a few times and wants a challenge but definitely not for your first. Although I'm sure there are lines in the game you'll only hear as a dumb guy, your still going to miss most of the dialogs and probably have trouble recruiting your party. It's not like a JRPG where you meet someone and da da they joined your party you have to convince them or pay them in Fallout.

[Rudolph]

@Wyrmwood I guess I was misled by the number of combat skills and perks at the start. Then again, the first few maps force me to fight your way past creatures that I cannot reason with, which discourages me from investing in speech and charisma anyway.

 

It really feels as if the game was purposely designed to penalize me no matter what I do! :S

Edited October 17, 2022 by Rudolph

[Wyrmwood]

2 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

@Wyrmwood I guess I was misled by the number of combat skills and perks at the start. Then again, the first few maps force me to fight your way past creatures that I cannot reason with, which discourages me from investing in speech and charisma.

 

It really feels as if the game was purposely designed to penalize me no matter what I do! :S

 

I do kind of agree about the first few maps there's a lot of combat that can be slow and painful as a more average character. It might of been better to have expanded the Vault at the start a little more with some optional training stuff like Candlekeep in Baldurs Gate.

 

But you do roll your character before encountering any combat and I seem to remember it warning you about lowering any stat too low. It's a bit geeky maybe but I like to try to actually role play a character in CRPGs, I'll pick a cool character I like in a movie, maybe modify a bit and then pick my stats based on what their good at. As I said before I based my character around Clint Eastwoods character in Fistful of dollars. You went for Doomguy but min/maxed too much and got the big guy from Goonies. Who do you think would survive a post apocalyptic wasteland better?

 

I do hope you try again, it took me a few false starts before I finally took to it but once you get to the city (hint your not that far away) the game opens up and I flew through it then. The start of a lot of CRPGs are a little painful to be honest.

 

[StodgyAyatollah]

24 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

@Wyrmwood I guess I was misled by the number of combat skills and perks at the start. Then again, the first few maps force me to fight your way past creatures that I cannot reason with, which discourages me from investing in speech and charisma anyway.

What about all the non combat skills and stats you're presented with? In the beginning you encounter a handful of rats that you can fight, sneak or run past before being led to a setting that's entirely dependent on social interaction. I think classic CRPGs just aren't for you. 

[Rudolph]

13 minutes ago, Wyrmwood said:

I do hope you try again, it took me a few false starts before I finally took to it but once you get to the city (hint your not that far away) the game opens up and I flew through it then.

Yeah, I know. I made it through the city on my very first playthrough years ago and that is when I decided to stop, ironically enough.

 

Hopefully, New Vegas is more accessible. Heck, maybe I should consider checking out The Outer Worlds as well, since it is from the same developers.

 

13 minutes ago, Wyrmwood said:

It might of been better to have expanded the Vault at the start a little more with some optional training stuff like Candlekeep in Baldurs Gate.

I think that is what Fallout 3 did actually, even if the execution ultimately left much to be desired, based on what I saw.

 

Man, Fallout really is a hit-or-miss franchise, is it not? :P

Edited October 18, 2022 by Rudolph

[dasho]

Quote

It might of been better to have expanded the Vault at the start a little more with some optional training stuff like Candlekeep in Baldurs Gate.

 

They tried this with Temple of Trials in F2 and I have never met anyone that liked it.

Edited October 18, 2022 by dasho

[act]

Mid. Not even trying to be a contrarian here - despite that being a very easy response to have towards the surprisingly rare opinion that a game usually showered in praise isn't enjoyed by someone. It's just that Fallout does very few things great, and most of what it does is serviceable.

[Wyrmwood]

2 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Hopefully, New Vegas is more accessible. Heck, maybe I should consider check out The Outer Worlds as well, since it is from the same developers.

 

I really need to play Outer Worlds also. I bought it a while back but I bought the Switch version. Switch is great for a lot of games, Skyrim special edition runs great. Outer Worlds runs OK but looks like someone smeared Vaseline over the screen. From what I played it seemed good but to save my eyes I will have to rebuy on PC and with my backlog, it would have to be on a very nice sale.

[StodgyAyatollah]

6 minutes ago, dasho said:

 

They tried this with Temple of Trials in F2 and I have never met anyone that liked it.

To be fair the interactions in arroyo after that did set things up fairly well whereas FO1 just gave you a basic premise.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I've always been very bored by them.  They're just not my cup of tea.  I did like the Fallout 4 character creation system, though.

[Herr Dethnout]

On 6/20/2020 at 6:27 AM, hybridial said:

Fallout 3 - kinda bad, very ignorant of what Fallout was about thematically, passable as Oblivion with guns, does have some neat sections

 

Fallout New Vegas - a much more coherent follow up to 1 and 2, I just don't really like the engine or it being in 3D really, but its very good.

Welp, Fallout 3 was made by Bethesda and New Vegas by Obsidian (Formed by people behind the Fallout 1 and 2). So yeah, it has sense.

[SFFlowerBoy]

New Vegas was my childhood game. What is wrong with me?

[Rudolph]

@Wyrmwood What would you recommend me in terms of starting stats, skills and perks?

 

As for your question as to who would have a better chance at surviving a post-apocalyptic wasteland, well, I have not seen A Fistful of Dollars, but I have seen Yojimbo - the movie it is essentially a remake of - and I know that the protagonist takes a lot of unnecessary risks that would have cost him his life had it not been for some plot conveniences. As such, I have my doubts about the Man With No Name's odds... :P

Edited October 18, 2022 by Rudolph

[PsychEyeball]

Most important stats in Fallout 1 are Intelligence and Agility. IN should not go below 7 and AG should not go lower than 6. Of all your stats, Endurance is not as important as you'd think. Charisma might be the least useful stat in the game. Strength is good for carrying stuff, but anything over 6 is a waste. There are ways to boost your Strength. Luck is kind of a wildcard stat and can often be ignored, but having 6 Luck is vital to get Better Criticals, which is one of the better perks in the game. Perception affects your hitting chances with guns, have it at least at 5 so you can get the Awareness perk.

 

The best three skills to invest in quickly are Small Guns, Speech and Lockpick. You'll be using Small Guns as your main means of attack for most of the game because they're everywhere and easy to find ammo for. You want Speech leveled up high because being convincing to people and get them to trust and listen to you is good. Lockpick allows you to unlock all sorts of doors and containers which lead to cool things. Tag them and boost them to 100% ASAP.

 

Once you've made some headway into the game, consider putting points either in Big Guns or Energy Weapons. 

 

As for traits, if you want the game to mostly be Easy mode, get Gifted. Having all your stats go up by 1 is huge and having a high Intelligence stat makes the initial skill point penalty meaningless. If you feel like the lucky type, you could also get Finesse. It lowers your damage output, but makes you more likely to inflict critical hits. Fast Shot is also a trait to consider if you feel that being able to target specific body parts in combat is overrated. In return, you'll be able to likely shoot more than once per combat round.

Edited October 18, 2022 by PsychEyeball

[Rudolph]

@PsychEyeball Awesome, thank you! What about melee? Should I bother with it?

[PsychEyeball]

Melee is more like something I'd keep for a second playthrough. The strongest melee weapons have this tendency to knock enemies away a few tiles, thus making you have to walk toward them to deliver another blow. Unarmed is a little better in that regard since you do not knock enemies away, but I wouldn't recommend close range combat to a beginner.

 

(Not to mention melee combat is more satisfying in 3D Fallouts anyway)

[Rudolph]

Duly noted.

 

I hate it when RPGs feature stats or skills that are essentially beginner's traps. I mean, what is even the point, other than waste precious points?

Edited October 18, 2022 by Rudolph

[Chezza]

29 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Duly noted.

 

I hate it when RPGs feature stats or skills that are essentially beginner's traps. I mean, what is even the point, other than waste precious points?

I notice lots of top down RPGs have these poor builds made unknowingly available. I guess more modern games address this while back then they let you do as you wish for better or worse. In a way, some people love that possibility as the game really lets you play how you like, in addition may make a second playthrough more interesting. Even a rogue like aspect to it.

 

More modern and balanced games tends to feel more limited in choice. It feels more like an illusion. They say "play how you like" but often means stealth vs no stealth and charisma vs brute force solutions. Modern Fallouts come to mind.

[dasho]

A ROLE playing game should provide for a large variety of builds and not care if they are all good/efficient/viable. I'd rather have that than the (typically) Bethesda pattern where your background doesn't really matter and you can become a smooth talking magical (or scientific, depending on game) sharpshooting stealth assassin bodybuilder who can bunny hop for miles at breakneck speed while carrying a thousand pounds of equipment.

[hybridial]

3 hours ago, dasho said:

A ROLE playing game should provide for a large variety of builds and not care if they are all good/efficient/viable.

 

And I completely disagree, the designers should take some care to make most if not all builds are *viable*. A ROLE playing game should allow a great degree of freedom of choice in player action based on their skills, and you're basically saying when it comes to the design of encounters that the devs should completely ignore a bunch of options they gave the players. No, that's just terrible design.