WAD or PK3? Which is supreme?

[AtticTelephone]

Should've asked this question on the editing subforums or in WADS and Mods, but this is more debate based, and I think General is where debates should be.

 

Anyway, I heard about this secondary file format for mods called PK3, and I wonder how different it is or if people think it's better/worse than the standard WAD file. In fact, if anybody knows about a tertiary file format for mods, then please inform me.

 

So yeah, WAD or PK3? I use WAD files, because I'm not sure how PK3 works.

 

Edit: Wow, people are really debating on technical stuff I don't understand. Maybe I should try studying Doom technical stuff.

Edited July 5, 2020 by AtticTelephone

[Final Verdict]

I think most people use PK3 and the more modern PK7 method.

 

Alas, due to my advancing years and declining cognitive powers my recent effort was a WAD with everything baked into it, including a gameplay mod. To be fair though, while I have played many WADs over the years I have never made one...until now. It's why my effort was a little archaic. Ye gods...what a mess it turned into. But it was fun and I learned a lot from it.

 

Edit: Ah and welcome to the forums AtticTelephone. Not that I'm a venerable member or anything.

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Final Verdict

[P41R47]

there are not much difference, both are resource files.

Wad being the original ''where all data is stored''.

and pk3 a compression format that is supported by some sourceports.

[lwks]

Yeah, WADs stand for "Where's All the Data" more precisely. Also, I've seen people using Zip files with Master Folders inside, I know PK's are technically ZIP files but the thing is it seems different, at least to my pleb brain, so you have that to check out if you want.

[seed]

Sounds like an apples vs oranges to me.

 

PK3 is commonly used by ZDoom mods, and if I recall correctly Eternity also supports the format, in addition to its own .pke, and there are some structural differences between these formats. Each one has its purpose so there's no "one is better than the rest" deal to be made here.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/PK3

[Xaser]

Strong Opinion Time(tm): PK3 (namely, zip + EE/GZD's directory structure) is straight-up the superior format, whenever it's an available option. Being able to organize things in a directory tree and not be limited to eight characters in the filename is an absolute godsend, especially if you're using EDF, ZScript, ACS libs, or any of the other script-y analogues that have an #include directive. It's a huge step up from 8-character longass-list-of-lumps wadville.

 

Big However, only certain ports support PK3, so naturally WAD is the correct choice for Boom, Vanilla, etc. projects. If you're targeting one or more of the pk3-supporting ports, though, you're only making things more difficult for yourself by not using the newer format, full-stop.

 

[Well, there's that, plus the fact that WAD is always used as a container for maps, but that's a technicality. :P ]

[xvertigox]

28 minutes ago, Xaser said:

...

...

[Well, there's that, plus the fact that WAD is always used as a container for maps, but that's a technicality. :P ]

 

I agree fully with @Xaser. No reason not to use PK3 with organized directory structure if you can.

 

I do have a question about this last comment though, does this mean maps need to be contained within wad files? With advanced ports can you not have the map lumps in a directory?

 

Edit: @Maggle They can be contained within PK3s but does it need to be a wad within a pk3 or can you have the map lumps themselves just sitting in a dir? I'd check but I don't have access to my pc.

 

Edit 2: Thanks for the explanation @Edward850, that makes sense.

Edited July 5, 2020 by xvertigox
Question + Answer

[Maggle]

WADs are supported by all source-ports, while PK3 is only supported by some, but allows the use of subdirectories and supports more file formats (like 3d Models, for example) and longer filenames (though sprite names are still subject to vanilla limits). Which is better depends on what project you're working on. If you're making a megawad that uses very little ZDoom-exclusive content (or none at all), WAD format is optimal for targeting as much compatibility as possible. If you're making a full-fledged gameplay mod or TC with custom weapons, graphics, enemies, music, etc. it's better to use PK3, not only for your own convenience, but also because it supports a wider variety of file formats than WADs.

Quote

I do have a question about this last comment though, does this mean maps need to be contained within wad files? With advanced ports can you not have the map lumps in a directory?

No. Maps can be included in PK3s as well.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Maggle

[Edward850]

13 minutes ago, Maggle said:

No. Maps can be included in PK3s as well.

That's not what he asked.

15 minutes ago, xvertigox said:

I do have a question about this last comment though, does this mean maps need to be contained within wad files? With advanced ports can you not have the map lumps in a directory?

Yes. As maps are a collection of generic files with a unique marker header and mostly depends on explicit file order to function, the zip archive format does not provide sufficient means* to organise these files in a way that would make any sense. WADs are used to act as an organised container of these files inside the PK3.

 

*So zips do technically both support duplicate named files and some degree of ordering, but the general standard doesn't because they were traditionally designed to only be packed and extracted to a physical filesystem as an archival format. This means the programs that manipulate them are most typically bound by the rules of the containing operating system, thus not ideal for WAD style lump management which maps require.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Edward850

[Morpheus666]

what the hell is a PK7 file? All i ever heard of was Wads and PK3

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Morpheus666

[Xaser]

In EE & GZD's PK3 organization style, maps are individual .wad files that sit in a maps directory -- e.g. you have maps/MAP01.wad, maps/MAP02.wad, etc, each of which is expected to contain a single map.

 

Having a map consist of a set of loose files a folder (e.g. LINEDEFS.lmp, SECTORS.lmp, etc.) technically wouldn't be impossible, but that would require that ports and editors support this alternative way of defining it, which is just extra work for the sake of it. UDMF's spec even explicitly states you have to do it that way (ordered lumps in a binary container), that way folks don't get any funny ideas. :P

Edited July 5, 2020 by Xaser

[Edward850]

9 minutes ago, Morpheus666 said:

what the hell is a PK7 file? All i ever heard of was Wads and PK3

 

A PK3 file, but using a 7z/LZMA container rather than zip. To be more clear, PK3/7 files aren't a unique file format, they are just a renamed .zip or .7z. In fact the file extension doesn't even matter, you could call it mywad.butts and any compliant port will still know what to do with it.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Edward850

[Morpheus666]

9 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

A PK3 file, but using a 7z/LZMA container rather than zip. To be more clear, PK3/7 files aren't a unique file format, they are just a renamed .zip or .7z. In fact the file extension doesn't even matter, you could call it mywad.butts and any compliant port will still know what to do with it.

so a even more compressed version of a pk3 basically