Is TNT Evilution good, bad OR okay

[Biodegradable]

@Dark Pulse

 

I don't remember which one of the two it was, honestly. I just remember finding myself wandering around in circles not finding any way to progress further, got annoyed, and then quit. :P

Edited July 10, 2020 by Biodegradable

[Dark Pulse]

3 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

@Dark Pulse

 

I don't remember which one of the two it was, honestly. I just remember finding myself wandering around in circles not finding any way to progress further, got annoyed, and then quit. :P

Well, does this ring any bells?

 

 

If not, it was MAP03, and I have no idea how you could get lost on MAP03.

[Biodegradable]

Yeah, must've been MAP03 as I don't recognise that screenshot's architecture. 

[The_SloVinator]

It's good. It has stinkers, though just like every wad.

Love the atmosphere & music.

[Doom-X-Machina]

Mmmmm, it's not bad... it's not great.

My least favourite of the IWADs. Much prefer Plutonia.

[unerxai]

It's pretty good. Mount Pain is epic.

[Pechudin]

    I liked the first 20 or so maps, by far my favorite was Stronghold, it felt like a goddamn action movie mowing trough 300 or so zombies. But as far as offerings from team TNT go, I prefer Icarus.

[Gez]

It's okay. The music is great; some levels are pretty good, others are pretty bad (especially in the last third). On the whole I think you oughta play through it at least once.

[seed]

Starts good, then goes bad after MAP20.

 

Has epic music, which Plutonia did not.

[Deadwing]

Not a big fan, either the levels or the midis

[jazzmaster9]

I have a love hate relationship with TNT, Its has amazing highs and very bad lows.

I always compare it to Dark Souls 2, where it had a ton of great ideas that were bogged down by a sludge of crap.

 

It took all my will power to play the last 1/3 of TNT, good lord.

Edited July 10, 2020 by jazzmaster9

[Walter confetti]

It's acceptable, some levels are great, some other not.

[Doomkid]

TNT and Plutonia both got lucky by being “officialized” because neither one is any better than NJDoom, Icarus, or especially MM, which are all of roughly the same vintage give or take a year or 2. That’s not to say they’re worse either - all on what I’d call the same par. Anyone who likes classic-style mapsets absolutely should give TNT a chance.

 

On this tangent, TNT’s soundtrack is excellent, I have to say it has the most lively MIDIs of all the iwads. Belly of the Beast? Let’s Kill at Will? Face-meltingly great!

[P41R47]

4 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

TNT and Plutonia both got lucky by being “officialized” because neither one is any better than NJDoom, Icarus, or especially MM, which are all of roughly the same vintage give or take a year or 2. That’s not to say they’re worse either - all on what I’d call the same par. Anyone who likes classic-style mapsets absolutely should give TNT a chance.

 

On this tangent, TNT’s soundtrack is excellent, I have to say it has the most lively MIDIs of all the iwads. Belly of the Beast? Let’s Kill at Will? Face-meltingly great!

 

Thats remind me that i need to replay NJ Doom 2.

[seed]

6 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

especially MM

 

Gonna have to heavily disagree on MM here :p .

 

The MM duology has aged incredibly poorly and was apparently even considered "dated" by as early as the late-ish '90s. It doesn't mean it's bad, but they've definitely aged horribly, heck even TNT aged better than it overall, or at least definitely better than the first. MM2 felt quite a bit more modern than MM1, but apart from some very iconic maps, a lot of the original is... really meh to play nowadays...

[Endingghost]

Overall, very mediocre. It has some good maps here and there and the music is pretty good. But some of the awful map design choices ruin it for me.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

4/10

[mrthejoshmon]

TNT is my personal favourite and I play it more than Doom 2 and almost exclusively made maps for the TNT IWAD, it is just my preference really I fell in love with TNT through it's (heavily trimmed down) appearance on the Playstation port, then playing actual TNT years later introduced me to my favourite PC Doom soundtrack and my favourite levels in the whole series.

[rehelekretep]

^ im with @mrthejoshmon - i love TNT. its my favourite of all the iwads.

i like esoteric/weird stuff in doom maps, and TNT has it a lot, without some of the annoying aspects of doom2/doom1's gameplay.

i am a big fan of the midis too. yes it has some awful maps but all the other iwads have awful maps too, and i find them more of an annoyance than the ones in tnt.

Edited July 10, 2020 by rehelekretep

[vdgg]

Maps that I like:

1,3,5,6,7,10,12-18,25(!),32. That is 15 maps.

 

Let's compare to Icarus.

1,6,8,11,12,14,16,19,20,22,23,25. 12 maps?!

 

I am very surprised because I think I have played Icarus much more. I still call it a tie, not a win - Icarus bads are not as bad as Evilutions. My least favourite from Evilution is MAP11 btw. I find Metal and Stronghold tedious, Wormhole has a nice gimmick but has 0 replayability value to me, I always choose the fast exit and I don't care about max kills.

[HAK3180]

Whether it "is" good or bad or okay I do not care.

 

But I can tell you I like TNT. I especially like 09 Stronghold, 11 Storage Facility, 15 Dead Zone, 18 Mill, and 27 Mount Pain. And like someone else said above, I find its "bad" levels better than Doom 1's or Doom 2's. Maybe not Plutonia's, which I find has significantly fewer enjoyment vicissitudes overall.

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, seed said:

 

Gonna have to heavily disagree on MM here :p .

 

The MM duology has aged incredibly poorly and was apparently even considered "dated" by as early as the late-ish '90s. It doesn't mean it's bad, but they've definitely aged horribly, heck even TNT aged better than it overall, or at least definitely better than the first. MM2 felt quite a bit more modern than MM1, but apart from some very iconic maps, a lot of the original is... really meh to play nowadays...

Maybe I'll need to replay MM and TNT back to back some time soon and see which one is more enjoyable. It's been years since I've actually played either properly. I always go on and on about how great MM is because I've played through it 3 times over the years.. If I had to remember I'd say probably in 2002, 2006 and 2012, or at least something like that, and I had a blast each time, despite some moments of confusion. I played through TNT once about 15 years ago, my first time beating it in full the legitimate way, and I have to say it's a good thing those custom MIDIs are there because I may well have not made it to the end, but good background music is a very strong motivator for me, for whatever reason (this probably serves MM well too, being fair). I'll have to give them both a fresh, clean chance in 2020 and see which one comes out on top!

 

Just remembering certain segments of each wad, I can definitely say that whether one prefers MM or TNT is very much an "eye of the beholder" thing. For all the ways in which MM is dated, I can think of at least as many examples of TNT wearing it's age very boldly and.. unappealingly at times. It's lowest lows were definitely lower, that much I remember - but I'll see if my memory actually serves me right some time this week!

Edited July 10, 2020 by Doomkid

[Andromeda]

As much as I like TNT and think it's underrated, MM aged better in my opinion.

[StoneMason]

5 hours ago, seed said:

heck even TNT aged better than it overall, or at least definitely better than the first.

I like TNT, but I personally don't think it has aged that much better than MM1, if I'm going to be perfectly honest. I can give TNT that it was the more thematically consistent of the two. But TNT is just as guilty as MM1 for having plenty of maps and design elements that are products of their time. I also personally reckon MM1's best maps are a tad more fun compared to TNT's best, and has the better texture set for sure, too.

Edited July 10, 2020 by StoneMason

[CacoMaster64]

It's okay.

[seed]

17 hours ago, StoneMason said:

I like TNT, but I personally don't think it has aged that much better than MM1, if I'm going to be perfectly honest. I can give TNT that it was the more thematically consistent of the two. But TNT is just as guilty as MM1 for having plenty of maps and design elements that are products of their time. I also personally reckon MM1's best maps are a tad more fun compared to TNT's best, and has the better texture set for sure, too.

 

I agree, but I dunno, every time I look at the two I always feel more attracted to TNT than MM, both in terms of gameplay and atmosphere, and I don't think it's bias since I'm not even thinking of TNT highly to begin with.

 

MM was one of my first community wads back when I originally started playing wads, so I basically played them back to back, and while both have a lot of characteristics of their era, I think the fact that TNT was overall more ambitious and creative helped it age a bit better, while MM feels a bit too stuck in its time period, unable to break free.

[vanilla_d00m]

I tried more levels on TNT then plutonia... well it's obvious because the music.  Human BBQ, and pharaoh.  I actually tried really REALLY hard to beat that pharaoh level because the music is nice... but i got really lost and gave up.

[Final Verdict]

I used to love TNT back in my teens, but I played through it more recently and discovered just how much my tastes have changed. I don't hate it, but I have now changed my opinion of it to 'it's alright, but not as good as I remember it'. However, I would never say it was bad. It had some very memorable maps and midi's, but it also had some terrible maps. TNT is a hard one to judge for me, I'd probably give it a 7/10 (6/10 if I discount the midi's). Back in the 90's though I probably would have given it a 8/10.

 

22 hours ago, Andromeda said:

As much as I like TNT and think it's underrated, MM aged better in my opinion.

 

I had the opposite experience with MM (to my above post I mean).

 

I played through it again about 2-3 years ago and really enjoyed it. It was just how I remembered it. Where as TNT lost a point or two from me 20+ years later, MM didn't. Strange really, I honestly thought I would have changed my opinion on it after the sheer amount of time since I last played it (90's I think). I really thought it was just nostalgia at first (you know, rose tinted glasses effect) but that wasn't the case.  

 

[ViolentBeetle]

Every time I try to play it, I hit Metal and stop. Maybe I should IDCLEV09 next time.

[Pirx]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:14 AM, Pseudonaut said:

Compared to Doom 2, the highs and higher and the lows are lower. But most TNT levels are just okay. There are some great maps like 31 and 32, and some terrible ones like 22. And it's easier than Plutonia.

 

 

this. tnt is more varied in quality, theme, map size than plutonia. there are some great maps, and then there are some that shouldn't have been there (metal's ending, habitat and mount pain especially). as for what @Doomkid said: yes, tnt got lucky being made an official wad. it could have been icarus or MM. that's not saying these 2 are better, they all have their highs and lows. but for me, tnt had more maps that stood out, that had something instantly recognizable. and the music is another strength of tnt.