What do you think of mods like brutal Doom?

[DooM Bear]

Was just watching Yahtzee’s retrospective of DooM video and outta curiosity, what do you all think of Mods like brutal Doom?

 

Now I’m not 100% sure if brutal Doom is technically considered a “total conversion” (edit: have be been advised it is not! It is a gameplay mod) so I’ll give a quick rundown of what I mean by the poll options below :-P

 

Not a fan - vanilla is my jam! = No major changes to gameplay or some minor changes only ie. new enemies (like in Eviternity) or weapon animation and sprite fixes - that sorta thing 

 

Sometimes like to play them = Will play both and depends on how I’m feeling

 

I can’t play DooM without them! = You can only play with / play total conversions

 

Personally, I always felt like brutal Doom was for people that didn’t really like DooM / was mainly younger people that have never played DooM before but am interested to see what you all think :-D

Edited July 24, 2020 by DooM Bear

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Just a bit of information:

Total conversions are not the same as gameplay mods.

 

Any Total Conversions for ANY games basically alter everything available in the base game, from simple things like sounds, textures to coding, effectively making the mod feels like a new game (e.g Total Chaos is a GZDoom TC. Without knowing that the mod used GZDoom as a base, you might not even recognize it as a mod at all)

 

 

Brutal Doom and such are classified gameplay mods, which are mods that alter gameplay; including/modifying graphics, sounds or even code, but they generally still somewhat keeping the spirit of the base game. They are mostly intended to enhance or bring a new life to the player's experience to the game.

 

So basically, this thread should be renamed to "What do you think of gameplay mods like Brutal Doom"

 

Just my 2 cents, people might be confused by your misinformation.

 

 

----

Back on the topic, I like gameplay mods, and they are best used with context (e.g Final Doomer+, Russian Overkill for slaughterwads)

If they are specifically used for a WAD, even better (see Paradise or The Wayfarer)

Edited July 24, 2020 by TheNoob_Gamer

[Doom-X-Machina]

Love Brutal Doom... can't play without it these days.

[Pseudonaut]

17 minutes ago, DooM Bear said:

new enemies (like in sunlust)

 

Sunlust has custom enemies? I don't remember them. But I know what you mean. The custom monsters in Valiant and Ancient Aliens come to mind.

 

20 minutes ago, DooM Bear said:

Personally, I always felt like brutal Doom was for people that didn’t really like DooM / was mainly younger people that have never played DooM before

 

I agree with this. I've seen Doom compared to chess before, and I think it's a valid comparison; classic Doom (especially Doom 2) strikes the perfect balance between simplicity and tactical depth. This is why I became so addicted to this game even though the first time I played it was about 20 years after it first released. Brutal Doom changes the gameplay balancing enough that it interferes with those qualities. I'm not a fan of significant gameplay mods in general, but they can be entertaining in small doses, like with Russian Overkill.

[seed]

You are confusing things here, a TC is a mod that aims to turn the experience into something else entirely, similar to Shrine, Pirate Doom, Jazz Jackrabbit Doom, or Golden Souls, barely keeping much of the base game's essence, essentially an overhaul. Brutal Doom and Project Brutality are gameplay mods, not TCs.

 

Regardless, I like TCs, and I'm always interested in playing a good one, my favorite so far is the Golden Souls duology (well, soon to be trilogy since GS3 is in development for a while now).

Edited July 24, 2020 by seed

[DooM Bear]

Ah cool cool! Thanks for the info @TheNoob_Gamer :-D

 

Wasn’t quite sure how to classify Brutal DooM as it was on the edge in my mind as pretty much everything is completely different to how it was originally apart from still kinda looks like DooM :-P Like honestly if you changed the enemy sprites I probably wouldn’t even be able to identify it as DooM XD

 

Don’t get me wrong! I’m not arguing with you and will fix that up now but am just genuinely curious, at what point does a gameplay mod become a total conversion? 

[Biodegradable]

I love 'em. I grew up playing vanilla Doom and am intimately familiar with it, so it's a bit quaint for me these days, so gameplay mods are a unique way to keep things spicy and help modernise and lengthen this ancient game's longevity. I really enjoy taking advantage of the 20+ years of technological advancements and experimentation the community has brought us through the many sourceports and mods. It's great fun. Gameplay mods play a pretty significant role in keeping Classic Doom thriving online and with how mod-able the game is, you get to see the makings of those who will no doubt have bright futures in game development should they choose to go down that path. There is just so much cool stuff to explore that prevent Doom from ever becoming boring. With so many tools to muck around with and how versatile Classic Doom is as a game, you can twist and mold it into all sorts of different gaming experiences to your liking. Besides map-making, modding is the lifeblood of the game and the community surrounding it. So far, I've tinkered with Brutal Doom, Trailblazer, Guncaster, Pandemonia, Hellrider and Slayer's Rampage. I play with Hellrider the most currently as it's my personal favourite. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Biodegradable

[TheNoob_Gamer]

14 minutes ago, DooM Bear said:

Don’t get me wrong! I’m not arguing with you and will fix that up now but am just genuinely curious, at what point does a gameplay mod become a total conversion? 

As said, the main distinction between a gameplay mod and a TC is when a mod becomes so deviate from the original game, it effectively turns into a new game itself.

 

So, a gameplay mod could become a Total/Partial Conversion when you decided to add all of the following into it

• Personality (implementing characters, funny flavor texts/descriptions),
• New gameplay mechanic to the table.
• Modifying and introducing a bunch of things, mostly weapons and enemies, also internal engine coding if needed. 
• Including new levels, graphics, that are so out of place from the original game but somehow fit the mod itself.

Edited July 24, 2020 by TheNoob_Gamer

[DooM Bear]

19 minutes ago, Pseudonaut said:

 

Sunlust has custom enemies? I don't remember them. But I know what you mean. The custom monsters in Valiant and Ancient Aliens come to mind.

 

Sunlust had the nightmare demons (the green pinkies) and commandos :-D

[TheNoob_Gamer]

1 minute ago, DooM Bear said:

 

Sunlust had the nightmare demons (the green pinkies) and commandos :-D

You might have confused with Eviternity. (https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Eviternity)

Sunlust just features new maps (https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sunlust).

[DooM Bear]

4 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

You might have confused with Eviternity. (https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Eviternity)

Sunlust just features new maps (https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sunlust).

 

Ah shit you’re right :-P Sorry @Pseudonaut and thanks @TheNoob_Gamer :-)

 

Has been one of those weeks and obviously my brain has already checked out :-P

 

All fixed in OP now :-)

Edited July 24, 2020 by DooM Bear

[NoXion]

Mods are cool, but since I'm currently stuck with only a weedy little craptop, most of them are off the table for me right now. 

[magicsofa]

I'm the type of player that goes back to vanilla IWADs once a year and still enjoys it. That said, brutal doom is fun.

[seed]

Since the topic has changed to gameplay mods, for me that is going to be a "no", I don't like gameplay mods, mainly because they make me feel like I'm playing a different game that keeps the idea of the original game intact, but not the actual core mechanics, and this doesn't apply to just Doom either, I don't use such mods for any game I like or play - unless you're Elder Scrolls, then I don't care :p .

 

I am fine and enjoy them if they're good and also part of the wad/mod I am going through, but use them in conjunction with the mod? Nah, I'm not really fond of that. And don't get me started on BD itself, I hate that mod and its offspring.

[chungy]

1 hour ago, DooM Bear said:

Was just watching Yahtzee’s retrospective of DooM video and outta curiosity, what do you all think of Mods like brutal Doom?

I have never disagreed with a Yahtzee video more than this one. Wow... I absolutely don't agree that Doom "doesn't hold up without mods", and his claim that the gameplay merits themselves are better in later games... I don't buy it. :)

 

One nit (possibly valid?) in his criticism of "just use..." comments: source ports providing modern screen resolutions is a fine enough upgrade. For most people, might as well just plop them on GZDoom. The inaccuracies in some of the AI compared to vanilla won't matter for casual players, and the visual boost from native resolution (typically 1080p or 2160p) is huge. By default, it feels vanilla enough for casual play.

 

Anyway, no, I don't think gameplay mods are at all necessary. I think Brutal Doom even takes away the subtleties of Doom. It's fun for a little bit, but pushing everything to 11 all the time just gets boring fast. The normal Doom gameplay mixes tense and quiet moments expertedly.

[Gez]

I don't care about them unless they come with their own set of levels, like a partial conversion. (Or alternatively, were made specifically for a certain set of level, like for example Final Doomer has different player classes meant for various specific megawads.) Otherwise I might play like one or two level just for the novelty of it but that's all.

[NoXion]

Brutal Doom is fun, but I prefer Project Brutality. A wider range of weapons and monsters and gameplay elements make for a more varied and unpredictable experience.

 

If I'm looking for a gameplay experience that is closer to vanilla while still being different, then Smooth Doom is the choice for me.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

High resolution Vanilla Doom because I can't stand 320X200 Pixels.

 

I never played Brutal Doom. Dont have interest in it.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Can't play on Nightmare

[Optimus]

There was a period when I was introduced to Brutal Doom and was hooked to it. Then I replayed everything, the original Doom levels, old classic megawads, with BD on. One day I switched to regular Doom and I felt bored. Damage was done. Some time later I was trying to play Doom on consoles, and played the 32x version and enjoyed it, and I was like "You know what? Doom has still the feeling in the movement, controls, shooting that even in the consoles or with an unmodded engine on PC it can still feel great to play! So, I was back into it and not going BD anytime soon. Afterall BD is in some early version, and every other version the weapons change in ways that I can't keep anymore. I was playing back then an early version with modified pistol that I liked. A lot of things changed since then.

 

The other thing is, usually I enjoyed playing level megawads without much modifications. It's fine if they have new graphics or sounds, maybe changing one or two weapons or introducing a new enemy, it's ok. But if you change a lot of these stuff then the hardwired rules of how everything functions in my brain, gets altered. If I expect an enemy to react in a certain way or need a certain amount of damage from my shotgun, it can confuse the way I play if you made the enemies stronger for example. Much harder when everything is changed. I like pure WADs focused on the level design and architecture (some new sky and textures are fine too). I was looking at some old WADs I haven't played before, one is "Zen Dynamics" that was suggested by a lot. For some reason I couldn't get into it and it annoyed me. And in this one the reason was much worse than having changed eveyrthing. The reason was it didn't slowly introduce you the new enemies and weapons but just throws them at you all together. It was also too hard and the rules totally changed. Yeah, maybe I am a boomer who still wants his Doom classic (but then ends up enabled billinear filtering :)

 

Strange how I have liked few other wads that change too many things (like NeoDoom which just has all weapons in, that's another confusing having like 4 shotguns, etc.. overabundance of more things than you need, too many special items, choice paralysis), again maybe the reason I could still play it is it introduced new enemies and weapons gradually. Also, I am talking about level megawads that change thigns a lot, not autonomous mods that only change your weapons but not provide levels. I watch some of them on youtube vids, but usually I don't bother play classic Doom with these overhaul mods. It just destroys the classic weapon/monster rules you got used to for years.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Optimus

[taufan99]

I used to almost exclusively play with gameplay mods. Nowadays I only use them when I'm in the mood.

[SlayerOGames666]

Brutal Doom is boring. Why? Because I've seen it all over the damn place in "tOP TEn dOOM wADs yOU SHouLD pLAy" video's #1 spots. What, just because some guy made his own sprites and slapped Nashgore with Mortal-Kombat styled fatalities on top, with meatier gun sounds, that'll probably destroy someone's speakers one day, gives you the impression that "OOH MAMA, DOOM LOOKS LIKE CALL OF DUTY!?!?!?!!?!111??!?!?!?! BETTER PRAISE THIS WAD AND PUT IT AT #1!!!!!!11!!!11!!!111!!!"

TLDR; I used to love Brutal Doom, but now I think it's overused and boring. Change my goddamn mind if you have to.

[GarrettChan]

This reviewer sounds like he rarely plays Classic Doom, but what do you expect from someone who does these types of reviews, lol.

 

For topic, I don't play with any gameplay MODs, but that's not always actually vanilla on the other hand.

[VanaheimRanger]

 

I've been given a lot of opportunity to share this clip lately and that makes me happy.

 

EDIT: And basically what I'm saying here is my vote would fall somewhere in between the first 2 options.

Edited July 24, 2020 by guitardz

[PeterMoro]

I love Brutal Doom and also Project Brutality. 

It's pretty obvious that Doom 2016 ripped off a lot of Brutal Doom's ideas.

[Graf Zahl]

I absolute can't get over the jarring inconsistency of the often modern high definition weapons and HUD while still using it on the same, by comparison primitive, levels from the 90's. It's alway weird - you get greeted by a modern looking menu, only to start the game and see - MAP01: Entryway. Takes me right out of it in an instance. Ugh...

 

[snapshot]

Beautiful Doom is usually enough for me, though I also like it when gameplay mods come with their own levels.

[Starduster]

I stick to vanilla for YouTube playthrus (with the exception of smooth weapon animations), but sometimes [casually] I like to spoil myself with a decent mod. For example Beautiful Doom or some weird dehacked thing. After playing with those for a while, I start to realize that I'd rather use my vanilla arsenal, cuz that was "silly". Then the cycle continues. But I've never played Brutal Doom. Gore doesn't bother me.. but why would someone want it in their game? Why would it be a must-have? Maybe, I'm getting something wrong. I went on a tangent anyway.

[Starduster]

2 hours ago, NoXion said:

Mods are cool, but since I'm currently stuck with only a weedy little craptop, most of them are off the table for me right now. 

Back when I first played Sunlust it was with beautiful doom. Anyway, my slow-as-hell laptop was chugging along through the first 6 maps ok, but then I got to the secret fight in 7. Lol, that was not fun. I understand how I feel m8

[Fairweather]

Basically only ever use either Smooth Doom + Damnums + Tilt, or a high quality gameplay mod that attempts to keep some semblance of balance and theme. Final Doomer is great, as is something like Super/Minicharge. But as soon as you start adding RPG systems, Weapons that instakill Cyberdemons or a bunch of other boring crap, I'm out. Never understood the appeal of those ultra OP mods, I open them up for 5-10minutes, press IDKFA and then delete the file.

[Loud Silence]

No mods allowed in my Dooming world (TCs and megawads with custom stuff are not mods for me). But i have tried few mods in past out of curiosity.