How does one get good at Doom?

[D4NUK1]

 

6 hours ago, Maes said:

Interesting. That's one of the few -if not the only- times where mouse + keyboard is proposed as a clearly superior control scheme that gives tangible advantages, not merely a more comfortable control scheme, or just a matter of habit (can't count how many "Hurr durr, I awlays (sic) played with 2-button analog joystick and got on just fine" posts I read in my time). So I guess there's still hope for my keyboard/joystick-only DM or speedrunning league, if those control methods are finally recognized as inherently inferior?

 

 

Well, it like instead of drive the car with the steering wheel, you preffer to use a keyboard in the car.

May work for simple task like drive a highway, but take a harder route, and you can see how the speed of response of turning with the steering wheel will work.

[Endless]

Everyone has already commented on any tip you need, but how come no one has linked this excellent thread?

Practice makes perfect, and you need WADs to practice, here are the best ones categorized by skill & difficulty:

 

 

[Juza]

I'm one for save-scumming, but doing so WILL hinder you, if you wanna git gud... replaying sections WILL actually improve your skill, because you will learn the most optimal way to get through situations, and will have to force yourself to play smart if you don't want to suffer the penalty of restarting the level from the beginning, most likely with only a pistol and none of your previous inventory. 

 

Practice doesn't inherently make perfect; if you practice a bad habit, it'll be hard to break away from it. Make sure you're practicing good tactics.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Juza

[GarrettChan]

Well... I guess this is why sometimes people will misinterpret the mouse thing. I recommend using mouse + keyboard, but there are handful of good keyboard only players out there, so this is not a "must", but maybe mouse is easier to progress.

 

Then, talking about weapon usages, there's no "strict way" to handle a certain thing. You still need to understand the situation and choose the correct one. For example, I would say Rocket Launcher is pretty efficient to deal with Pain Elementals in some cases, but people tend to put away their Rocket Launchers when they see a Pain Elemental, which is not always correct.

 

I would say, the best way to improve is to do speedrunning, but that's a niche thing, so not everybody is going to enjoy it for sure. I just put here as an option. The other thing is that you can probably go back and re-visit some of the previous WADs you've played before. Try to beat them saveless, or beat them a little bit quicker. Maybe you can try Plutonia first since later Valiant levels are actually pretty hard. I would say Valiant is harder than BtSX E1.

[Juza]

7 hours ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

Your opinion about which is for which??

HIGHLY depends on the situation, from level layout to how much ammo is provided. So I'll try to lay out the most common situations and usages.

 

Often, you're gonna wanna use the shotgun to dispose of small groups of low-tiers, but in situations where you can find yourself overwhelmed, the chaingun is preferable. The chaingun is also good for stunlocking Arachnotrons, Pain Elementals, Revenants and Cacodemons -- they have such a high pain chance that they'll probably never have a chance to attack back, but it uses a lot of ammo, so you can't always rely on it.

 

Super Shotgun for picking off large, tightly grouped hordes of low-tiers works, too. Emphasis on tightly grouped.

It's great for picking off medium and high tiers too, if they're not at high risk of cornering and/or pushing you back too much.

 

Rocket Launcher is pretty much a slow, long-range Super Shotgun (even dealing nearly the exact same amount of damage on average), which you gotta be careful not to hurt yourself with. Everything I detailed for the SSG applies for it, except that you gotta make sure you're not at risk of blowing yourself up. Rockets are often rarer than shells, for most levels in general.

 

Plasma Gun is great in case you're about to panic and/or at risk of being overwhelmed; It's a rapid-fire, moderate damage weapon, with ammo that is uncommon more often than not, in most user levels. It can burn through low-tiers, and still do very well at holding back medium/high-tiers for how good it can be at triggering pain states, whilst you run through the horde. Pretty much, it's a big chaingun for big situations, that fulfills the role a Rocket Launcher would take if it was a close-range weapon.

 

BFG is the BFG. You know when to use it, don't waste it.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Juza

[Archanhell]

Huh, I thought it was something common to just go keyboard + mouse when playing DooM, because I have done that since the first day I played it, and it's just a must-do on FPS Games, modern and oldschool.

 

Using mouse allows you to have a better reaction speed, aim much better and overall just have a great skill boost when playing.

My control scheme has also helped me, not just on DooM, but on many other FPS Games, to play nicely, comfortably and just like an average or such player.

 

For example, the typical WASD to walk, being A and D the Strafe keys, Spacebar for jumping, E to interact with stuff, X for Altfires, V for Chasecam on emergency moments, etc.

I would really recommend that, as well you can bind Straferun to right mouse, Fire to left mouse (EVERY game does that.. Or at least 90% of them (?)).

That's all for the basic things, then if you want to learn other stuff looks like everyone here covers that, such as the use of covers (Unintended pun by the way), also the careful use of resources and weaponry depending on each situation.

(Rocket Launcher and BFG for Crowd-Control, Chaingun for small group cleansing and some burst firing, Plasma for a much better burst firing, Pistol for secrets, switches, and such, Super Shotgun for everything)

 

 

[Juza]

@Archanhell I hope you don't think Doom was designed with jumping and chasecam.

 

Also, mouses weren't that common for video-games back in the early 90s. Most people played keyboard-only. It wasn't the norm until what, Quake?

[Chip]

5 minutes ago, Juza said:

Also, mouses weren't that common for video-games back in the early 90s. Most people played keyboard-only. It wasn't the norm until what, Quake?

There is a topic by Fraggle that shows that DOOM was made to be played with mouse. read it here. 

 

[Pseudonaut]

6 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

There is a topic by Fraggle that shows that DOOM was made to be played with mouse. read it here.

 

 

That doesn't mean most people played with a mouse. Only that Doom was designed to support it.

 

Edit: the thread you linked actually cites a survey from 1994 where ~61% of respondents said they play keyboard-only. In other words, it does appear that most people played keyboard-only.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Pseudonaut

[GarrettChan]

5 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

There is a topic by Fraggle that shows that DOOM was made to be played with mouse. read it here. 

Juza didn't say mouse is/isn't intended for Doom...

 

For this topic, on one hand, "Doom is intended for keyboard only" is annoying, but on the other hand, "everybody should play with a mouse" is also annoying. I guess how people word their sentence to persuade others to use keyboard + mouse lead to so much misunderstanding.

[Archanhell]

28 minutes ago, Juza said:

@Archanhell I hope you don't think Doom was designed with jumping and chasecam.

 

Also, mouses weren't that common for video-games back in the early 90s. Most people played keyboard-only. It wasn't the norm until what, Quake?

 

WHAT!? Doom was not designed for jumping and chasecam, and this time my life was a blatant lie!?

 

 

..Nah don't worry, that is my usual control scheme on FPS and similar games, except for the "Chasecam" part.

But if we consider the man is playing on sourceports like ZDoom and GZDoom, then those kind of controls exist :'p

And yeah, I bet mouses weren't common, but I started playing DooM since 2010/2012, so eh-

[Lucky_Edie]

3 hours ago, magicsofa said:

 

Heresy. Decorations aren't supposed to block projectiles. This is a source port "feature" that you should never exploit, unless you want a big surprise when you go play something on a vanilla-mechanics port. Your rockets aren't supposed to blow up on torches either so it kinda changes a lot in some situations.

 

Easy to notice with the stairs fight in sunlust map 25. I got carried away rambling at 3am, was trying to think of the smallest cover possible and torch came to mind. Woops.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Lucky_Edie

[Aaron Blain]

Be experimental. Try wildly different strategies. Practice scientific detachment. Remember that death doesn't cost you anything (except your time).

[TriTT]

I suggest moving to keyboard and mouse. Even without using free-look, meaning you keep that disabled so that there is no “mouselook” available, you will notice your turning and strafing get a lot better with this setup. Use the mouse to do all the turning and shooting, use the keyboard for  directional moving/strafing and other important functions. Trust me, I was a keyboard only player too at one point, but believe me when I say it has its advantages in SP just as much as it does in DM. 
 

if you’re using a limit-removing source port you usually have a lot more freedom over the controls than you will with vanilla Doom, but you can configure the controls however you like. I think being able to control the game is the most important aspect to learning how to get good. 
 

This is my setup for Odamex, Zandronum, and GZDOOM. My vanilla/chocolate/crispy setup isn’t as user configurable, but it is still fairly similar: 

keyboard keys:

W- move forward 

A - strafe left 

S - move backward

D -strafe right

E -Open/Use

Q -chainsaw/fist (weapon slot 1)

F - pistol (weapon slot 2)

Spacebar -180 degree turn, but on Zandronum I use it as the strafe specific button instead since there isn’t a 180 degree turn option. 
Backspace - spectate 

\- Co-op spy

note: another popular option, especially for vanilla Doom is instead of WASD, use ESDF instead. 
 

mouse controls:

 

left button - fire/shoot

right button -walk/run (this is more useful than some might realize, especially in DM)

mid button (mousewheel being pushed in) - Rocket Launcher (weapon slot 5) 

mousewheel up - shotguns (weapon slot 3) 

mousewheel down -chaingun (weapon slot 4)

mouse button 4 - Plasma Gun (weapon slot 6)

mouse button 5 - BFG (weapon slot 7)

 

note: vanilla doom does not give you as much freedom for the control scheme, but you would probably still want the mouse to switch between weapons and control the firing and walking/running. You could also use one of the buttons as a strafe button, and if you use the strafe button while moving the mouse to the same direction you are strafing with the keyboard strafe keys, you can strafe even faster than usual but cannot control turning. I personally find that to only be so useful myself, and find that being able to control your speed is far more important in combat be it between AI or real life opponents. 
 

also, some will say they’re outdated, but they are cheap as hell and they add something to your collection.... pick up some of those old Doom strategy books. Some people learn better from watching other people play, but I learned long before that was a common possibility with the “Doom Construction Kit” book, which gives a lot of information on the monsters and items, in very detailed ways that most videos tend to brush off as common knowledge. Some of the design tips for making WADS IS outdated from these books, but the combat info is far from obsolete. 
 

The Doom Wiki is also a great place to read up on how each monster behaves and what different items do. You should have that stuff drilled into your head so you’ll know how to conserve items and the best approaches on monsters. 
 

if you’re going to watch someone else play, you need to be sure they are playing by the same rules you will choose to play by. So don’t watch someone playing using free-look, crouching, jumping, etc. If you intend to not use those features, then watch videos of other people not using them as well.

 

A user I recommend if you want a lot of the information found in text form put into a well made video would be Decino on YouTube. 

 

there’s a lot more I could say, but it seems you’ve got a lot of other advice already that I don’t feel like repeating myself! Just remember the whole point is to have FUN. Unless you’re playing for money, there’s no need to worry too much over your skills to where you make yourself feel bad, in the end you just have to restart or reload, and try again. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by TriTT

[Hellektronic]

I applaud your using a keyboard my friend, mice are for noobs, hah. It makes your reaction time faster, obviously... but it's almost too easy then I think. Even ultraviolence isn't really "hard" if you get good at taking cover and dodging fireballs. Doom 2 is a different story though.

 

If you're going to use a keyboard, try to get good at strafing and running at the same time... because really close quarters fights, you almost have to do that. Also note that if you press the run key, you also turn faster, so you can look behind yourself quicker. It's a bit hard to aim while running, but you get used to it.

 

The best advice I can give is to play the game often, learn how things work, and get accustomed to the playstyle and reacting quickly to enemies. Fireballs can be dodged easily by strafing, bullets basically cannot and are better dodged with cover. So you have to mix it up a bit as you go and learn new ideas.

 

Find backpacks, they give you x2 ammo capacity for the rest of an episode if you don't die.

 

Don't waste health bonuses (the blue bottles) if you can, try to save them for when you're at 100% health, because they can raise your health above 100. Armor is a bit different, because green armor maxes at 100 and blue armor maxes at 200... so if you only find green armor, grab the armor bonuses (the glowing helmets) afterwards so you get the full benefits and not just a measly +1 armor you could get by picking up another vest.

 

Save powerups. Try to plan out how you use them. If you see a radiation suit, find some radiation before you pick it up. If you see invincibility, plan out what you're going to do with it. You don't have an inventory when it comes to items so you have to be careful around them and not just rampantly pick stuff up.

 

I'll also say that Knee Deep in the Dead is very easy compared to the later game, you get a lot of armor, a lot of ammo, a lot of health, a lot of items, etc. Don't let that get you too cocky, Shores of Hell and Inferno are progressively harder.

 

In the end... people say using a mouse is the way to go, and I agree. But if you're really into the game, keyboard is a pretty hardcore way to play. The whole game is harder on keyboard, nobody will argue against that. Your reaction time is roughly cut in half, so monsters are inherently more dangerous and dodging is harder. It's pretty much a preference thing, but as an old grizzled veteran who gets kinda bored even on ultraviolence, that extra challenge is refreshing.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Hellektronic

[Doomkid]

Get your ass in a Deathmatch server. Doom Explorer is the server browser, Zandronum, ZDaemon and Odamex are the 3 multiplayer ports. Most of the people sitting here handing out tips like candy would get their asses stomped in a casual FFA! ;)
 

Seriously though. It’ll teach you the importance of fast, efficient movement and will make you play like someone lit a fire under your ass. Many of the lessons people take a long time to learn can be acquired much faster through somewhat regular deathmatching. Arachnotron plasma is baby stuff compared to “3 doomguys running around at 50 mph” plasma!

[Hellektronic]

Oh, I'll also point out that you'll get annihilated trying to play deathmatch on keyboard only, hah... only do that in singleplayer, or you'll regret it.

 

 

[Nine Inch Heels]

19 hours ago, ASaltShaker said:

Usually, I'd breeze through the first three maps or so, then the next ones would keep me resetting the level over and over again. In my current situation, I'm stuck at BTSX's MAP05 in HMP, and Valiant's MAP04 in UV. I enjoyed these mapsets before being frustrated by having to reset the level over again, as I'm not a person to use saves frequently.

 

Here's hoping I can somehow cut through some of the vapid/bullshit-advice that's been given so far... So let's start with the highlighted stuff from this quote:

"Resetting levels all over again" is the worst possible way to learn anything new, period. That's true for games, playing instruments, juggling, whatever else. The common consensus by players who want to learn something new fast, to improve their performance, is that the best method is "Don't practise what you already can do, practise what you can't do.".

 

What does this mean? Simple. Save before a big fight comes up, which you still have to figure out, then practise the fight until you feel comfortable beating it in one fell swoop. Move on to the next part that you have problems with. Drop a save beforehand, learn that fight, move on. Eventually you'll have a save for each major fight in a map, meaning you have each difficult situation on speed-dial, in case you need more practice. Once you've learned what the map wants from you in each given fight, try and run the map saveless. Repetition sticks!

 

 

 

General advice:

Learn to play proactively. Doom is not a game where "twitch reflexes" and "paying attention to everything at once" will get you very far. It's far more important to pay attention to a select few things, while coming up with a "method" that puts things of lesser importance on "autopilot". For example Movement Patterns that will allow you to "auto-dodge" most of the incoming projectiles while you're busy blowing something important up.

 

Threat identification. Not every map out there can be beaten with the rigid rule that is "Shoot the Pain Elemental/Archvile first, DUH!". Harder maps are really good at forcing "different rules" on you, for example by making something else a much higher threat, like a horde of pinkies that you need to deal with before you can take out the dangerous archvile.

 

Crowd shaping/herding. Harder maps often kill players by way of threatening their real estate, and therefore their agency over what they can do in a given fight. This means that, on occasion, you will need to pay attention to the general direction in which monsters move, and figure out a way to use their simple "AI" to your advantage. This is especially important in fights where there's lots of monsters, not just a couple imps and pinkies. Also, a bunched up crowd, that is basically one big "monster blob", is much easier to process as one "large entity", meaning you can pay attention to something else in the meantime. Figuring out how to make things go your way, by way of tricking monsters into a situation that is more advantageous for you, is required to beat the harder maps out there.

 

Never rely on any rigid rules such as "use weapon X on monster X, but don't use weapon Y on monster Y". People who pass this off as advice are noobs, and they don't understand that harder maps are hard partially because they greatly limit what kinds of supplies and weapons you have at your disposal. You have to stay flexible when you're looking to figure out what works the most consistently in a fight, and like I mentioned earlier, hard maps make it a point to subvert what most players think is a good rule of thumb. This also is a bit of a callback to "Threat identification".

 

Learn about monster's special "quirks". For example, what's the range for where revs won't shoot the player, and instead try to get closer and punch them? What about the archvile's "target amnesia"? Block PEs from spawning lost souls by standing right next to them, if that helps you beat a fight or save ammo.

 

Learn how the BFG works. Important not only in slaughter maps, but in general. Getting the most value out of your BFG rounds makes many maps a lot easier. Also, maybe try and learn to 2-shot cyberdemons with the BFG, because again, ammo is valuable.

 

Keep moving, but don't run around like a headless chicken. Kinda obvious, but many people do it wrong still. Moving more than is necessary doesn't make you a better player, in fact, it can be a very bad habit to develop. However, moving less than necessary makes you the idiot who gets hit. Be aware of what could be flying around in the air, and where it's coming from, so you know which way to move in order to dodge things you didn't even (have to) see. Kind of an addendum to "proactive play", but worth being pointed out separately.

 

Pistol start maps. I know, I know... "NIH", you say, "let people play how they want. Telling them not to play continuous is bad and elitist and blablabla." I don't care! The common consensus among better players is that, in the vast majority of cases, carry-over weapons and ammo make the following map(s) easier by virtue of giving you firepower ahead of time. Also, you never know exactly how much ammo you'll have going into map 10 of a 32 map megaWAD, so it creates situations that may be very difficult to reproduce, meaning practice becomes a lot more complicated. The only people who "route" ammo supplies across several maps are folks who speedrun entire episodes or even megaWADs. If you're not that kind of person, play pistol start, and you always have a consistent baseline for what a map provides you with.

 

 

Also, just as a side note: Keyboard only is objectively less good than playing with mouse and keyboard. You can beat many modern and hard maps without using a mouse, but that doesn't falsify that using a mouse is better, in practically every case. Adding to that, just to address the "expert" who said something like "Doom was originally meant to be played keyboard only"... No, it wasn't! Even the doom2 demos that will auto-play were played with mouse and keyboard, there's even a thread about this here on DW if you need more proof. So stop spreading this nonsensical misinformation. Doom already has been played with a mouse before it found its way onto store shelves.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Nine Inch Heels

[VanaheimRanger]

22 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Well thought out and very helpful stuff.

Listen to this person more than any other poster here.

[Alfonzo]

Just dropping by to add again that yes, Doom was meant to be played with a mouse...

 

...A mechanical mouse! The dust and lint getting caught in the tracking ball and causing your marine to seize up or trip over is a feature of the game. Being a good Doom player is about keeping a cool head when you need to reach for the microfiber cloth in the middle of a firefight. Remember to pause the game or your marine will start pinwheeling like a ballet on a hardwood floor.

 

Also what NIH said. Good post.

[Nine Inch Heels]

51 minutes ago, Alfonzo said:

Just dropping by to add again that yes, Doom was meant to be played with a mouse...

 

...A mechanical mouse!

[Hellektronic]

Hm... the only reason I ever started messing with the keyboard playstyle was for a bit of extra challenge with the ridiculously slow-moving vanilla enemies on ultraviolence. My whole life I've used a mouse, I had just assumed that was what everybody did. *shrugs* But ya know... you get bored of playing on ultraviolence after awhile, because you nuke the whole game inside out without even trying, hah. I'm to the point where I've played through Doom 2 on ultraviolence with fastmonsters on, and still find myself hunting some kind of extra challenge, so playing with a keyboard and slow enemies (probably) wont kill me.

 

It's... a totally different game on keyboard. You pretty much can't run, strafe, and aim all at the same time unless you use ZDoom mods like always run- so you're uh... very handicapped. Almost reminds me of like Resident Evil 1, fumbling with the clumsy tank-style controls and getting bit by zombies left and right because your reaction time is awful, haha. And in Doom 1 that's no so bad, because the enemies are like... slower than slow and pretty awful at harming you in any capacity, so it's kind of fun to mess with.

 

Edit: I'll point out that I definitely don't go all default with the keyboard controls because some of the defaults are completely absurd, but mainly what I do is just swap strafe left/right with turn, making strafe have to be manually applied, you know.

 

I use a ZDoom port, so I turn the mouse speed to 0 and use the mouse just for shooting and strafing with the right click. Works pretty well, without the pain in the ass parts like SHIFT being run... good lord, who can press all those keys at the same time in any reasonable capacity, hah. I'm daring, not insane.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Hellektronic

[Edward850]

 

[reflex17]

 

10 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

xaser video

 

wow, that's a really nice stair-step texture

[Pseudonaut]

22 minutes ago, Hellektronic said:

But ya know... you get bored of playing on ultraviolence after awhile, because you nuke the whole game inside out without even trying, hah. I'm to the point where I've played through Doom 2 on ultraviolence with fastmonsters on, and still find myself hunting some kind of extra challenge

 

You could just play one of the many excellent mapsets produced by the community. They're usually harder than Doom 2, sometimes by a huge margin.

 

22 minutes ago, Hellektronic said:

unless you use ZDoom mods like always run

 

This can be done in vanilla. It's not a ZDoom thing at all.

 

Edit: Here's how, under "Additional settings"

Edited July 29, 2020 by Pseudonaut

[Hellektronic]

2 minutes ago, Pseudonaut said:

This can be done in vanilla. It's not a ZDoom thing at all.

 

You don't say, I never realized that... I'm assuming it's something in the wonky DOS setup that I missed. I keep an old version of DOS Doom around for DOSBox with novert and everything... but... I dunno why, to be perfectly honest with you. I could just get Chocolate Doom and save myself a lot of trouble, hah. Maybe it's a pride thing, I HAD to have the original set up.

 

3 minutes ago, Pseudonaut said:

You could just play one of the many excellent mapsets produced by the community. They're usually harder than Doom 2, sometimes by a huge margin.

 

I actually do play a lot of wads from this community to be honest, I'm just very, very late to the party in terms of modern stuff. Most of what I've played were Cacowards or notable wads people have pointed out, because I'm a tad reluctant to get involved in crappy goof-troop wads made by the local idiot, hah.

[Edward850]

59 minutes ago, Hellektronic said:

I'm assuming it's something in the wonky DOS setup that I missed.

It's a bug in the joystick binds. The speed key could be overflowed past the end of the joystick buttons, thus could be set to a location that always returns true. Chocolate Doom makes it "official", and even the official ports now add in a real autorun as an option. 

[TriTT]

Neat info on the auto run working in vanilla. I didn’t know that. The trick back in the day was to rig the run key on the keyboard with a coin to keep it pressed in, essentially creating an “auto run”. If I had only known... 

[Hellektronic]

6 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

It's a bug in the joystick binds. The speed key could be overflowed past the end of the joystick buttons, thus could be set to a location that always returns true. Chocolate Doom makes it "official", and even the official ports now add in a real autorun as an option. 

 

Yeah, that's totally bizarre man... I really can't imagine how long it took people to figure something like that out. I even had a (crappy) PC joystick and didn't know that.

 

Serious question though, who ever used a PC joystick or messed with the config file enough to realize such an obscure bug? That's like... a hardcore coding quirk that I'd say 99% of the human race would overlook, haha.

[Roofi]

Just try to beat hard levels on UV without saves on pistol-start.