What do you think about the flying barons and laser firing dudes of Scythe 2?

[Can't play on Nightmare]

If you have BFG, laser firing dudes are no problem but those flying barons...They dont know how to die.

[Grazza]

I can't ever take flying barons seriously, as they look completely stupid. Those little flappy wings (especially as they sprout pointlessly from an area of their body with few obvious muscles to power them) couldn't possibly lift such a heavy monster. It's a simple question of weight ratios.

[baja blast rd.]

Afrits: 

 

HP (2500) is too high for how they are used in Scythe 2, which is often floating in the air in open spaces. Their hitbox is also small, which exacerbates the trouble of grinding them down. They need to be really close to you if you want to get a good burst of BFG tracers in. Their internal "mass" value, equal to that of the cacodemon, is too low (that is why they are flung backwards in the air so easily).

 

Mayhem '18 Purple has a floating monster with identical HP -- the immolator -- but it's so much easier to hit, especially with BFG tracers, that it feels noticeably less tanky. It also has a much more satisfying death animation than the afrit's 'poof out of existence with a baron scream' -- which is not an insignificant part of what makes a monster fun.  

I like the afrit's firestorm attack, even if it could be more nuanced. It's a fun source of danger both in open spaces and cramped ones.

 

Evil marines: 

 

I find these fun to fight but they are so dangerous relative to other Doom monsters that the game feels discontinuous while they exist -- "now we're playing Doom... now we're playing Evil Marines where the other Doom monsters that are present in the area are more or less a footnote... now we're back to playing Doom." 

 

Nerfing speed or HP or some combination of both is a good call. Running Late by A2Rob has really good nerfed variants. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by ‹rd›

[Final Verdict]

50 minutes ago, Grazza said:

I can't ever take flying barons seriously, as they look completely stupid. Those little flappy wings (especially as they sprout pointlessly from an area of their body with few obvious muscles to power them) couldn't possibly lift such a heavy monster. It's a simple question of weight ratios.

 

I remember reading about something similar when I was a kid. It touched on many things like myths of flying humans, angels etc. They concluded that in order to achieve flight their breast bones/muscles would have have to be abnormally large. Result? Your chest would look like that of a very large pigeon.

 

It's more obvious as an adult but I found it fascinating as a child.I wonder how many kids still wished they could fly after that revelation? It certainly killed my aspirations as a child.

 

On topic: I didn't mind the marines, but the Afrits were a little too beefy for my liking. They already have the advantage of flight, making them harder to track/hit.

 

[Nine Inch Heels]

I've never felt good about scythe2'S afrits. I remember reading somewhere that alm wanted to have them as a boss monster with an HP pool between cyberdemon and mastermid, and at 2500 HP they're "seemingly" in 1-shot range when the BFG is employed, but since we're talking about a WAD that can be played with vanilla game behaviour, where you already can't 1-shot an SMM reliably (assuming vanilla-ish circumstances), I don't know where this idea regarding their HP-pool came from.

 

Maybe I'm taking what I read too literally, or I remember something wrong, but at the end of the day it doesn't change that 2-shotting a cyber is much easier, and much less dangerous than 2-shotting an afrit. And man, do I hate these things in wide open spaces... It's all good fun if you have something you can push them up against to burst them down quickly, but if they get caught in a couple BFG tracers while you're fighting something else, and they drift off to "whereeverland" then it's just such an annoying time sink to hunt them down.

 

Also I'm generally biased towards having more "high lethality" to "low HP" ratio custom monsters for anything that is used in a (semi)regular fashion, because, in my opinion, Doom already has a lot of bulky stuff going around and about, and I don't think adding more on top of the pile necessarily contributes something "new". WADs like Valiant have shown the merit of "glass cannon" type monsters, ribbiks's "Magnolia" has these green cybers, which can be killed quite quickly, too, and there's lots of other stuff in that general direction of monster design that seems to have proven its worth already.

 

I guess it depends on who you ask, as well as what the context in which a monster is used in is like, but, from my perspective, adding more HP doesn't make the game more interesting, or "tactical", by default. And before somebody tries to argue that High HP monsters are good for reasons X Y Z: Yeah, high HP monsters can be really good in the right circumstance, but they also don't do much in the "wrong" circumstance. So if you had more "glass cannons" to work with -things like threat - HP ratio monsters like revs for example - you could do more different stuff than you would be able to, if you added yet another "tank".

/ramble

[D4NUK1]

All of thoses enemies can eat plasma and be dead.They are a Pain to handle with Rocket and BFG.

But make the maps and the wad more memorable.

[Graf Zahl]

Three words: annoying as hell. These two new monsters do a lot damage to that mod.

 

[Pirx]

1 hour ago, ‹rd› said:

Afrits: 

Evil marines: 

 

 

 

well, this. scythe2 afrit is way too tanky, should have been 1000-1500 hp. there are better variants. i can see where 2500 hp came from, "let's have something between barons and cybers", but in practice it doesn't work with one-shotting them if they're not busy with someone else and you can't shove the bfg up their rear.

 

generally, i'm more a fan of glass cannons, rather than  grinding down doors with health. 

 

marines are too fast. are like "insert a round of deathmatch". they break immersion, feel alien to the game.

[nname]

I haven't played Scythe 2 yet, so I don't know how challenging these custom demons are. But they seem rather cool to me.

[Zolgia108]

evil marine is cool just in the first map it appears, then it gets FREAKING ANNOYING AS HELL.

Afrits are incredibly mean in the first map they appear (considering the lack of ammo there) and then they become a nice challenging monster in the rest of the wad.

Of course i am talking about UV and of course this is just my opinion :)

[SilverMiner]

Evil Marines could be perfect infighters if not be faced separately with original monsters

Afrits are not bad but too hefty

 

EDIT: It's my ITYTD opinion

Edited July 28, 2020 by SilverMiner

[nostalgia]

The last levels suffer because of the Afrits. There's no actual way to defeat them than BFGing the wall then hug the bastard and pray to not get killed. I find that pretty meh. Also they put those beasts in open areas so the Revenant missiles kills you. You BFG them and they'll go flying till' they reach the edge of the map......

 

The final levels were a test of patience because of this. By that point, I just wanted the thing to be over. MAP30 is really epic until you want to 100% the thing and realize you have wait until you infight 6 cyberdemons with like 10 Afrits and then try to not get killed by the remaining demons. For real, there is a part with 5 Afrits and a ""secret"" invul that i'm certain you can't beat the part without it ironically enough that part was cool.

But the Evil marines? lmao they're fun.  They really test your reflexes. I love map31 with the dwango music and the evil marines.

[Killer5]

Like them both. I find the marines especially hilarious. Want to make a wad with the marines someday.

[Andromeda]

I like them, certainly a factor to why Scythe 2's so successful.

[seed]

I always found the Marines funny in how over-the-top they are, and are fun to deal with too.

 

The Afrit, however, not so much, too tanky for my taste. I'm glad for the other renditions that the community has made instead, but not the original.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

38 minutes ago, seed said:

I always found the Marines funny in how over-the-top they are, and are fun to deal with too.

 

The Afrit, however, not so much, too tanky for my taste. I'm glad for the other renditions that the community has made instead, but not the original.

 

I can't deal with them without BFG 9000.

[Arbys550]

I like them, and I usually hate custom monsters. I think it's because Scythe 2 was the first wad I've ever played and so I'm used to them by now.

[VanaheimRanger]

On 7/24/2020 at 2:59 PM, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

I would enjoy more if you play normally.

 

I cannot do this strange fucking strange Doom tricks but I do my best to play it in a NORMAL way to BEAT the maps.

 

This strange but also stupid tricks actually piss me off. Okay I cannot do them but I dont give a fuck about them either. Play normally and let us see if you beat the map on UV.

 

And no. I didnt enjoy the video. I am looking for someone who plays Doom without doing strange tricks.

Just a reminder.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

2 minutes ago, guitardz said:

Just a reminder.

 

I said I was sorry in the thread. Whats your aim of making it last?

[loveless]

there's shitposting, then there's shit posting

[VanaheimRanger]

1 minute ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

I said I was sorry in the thread. Whats your aim of making it last?

"I was drunk" isn't an excuse.  You know if you get caught driving drunk, they put this little thing in your car where you have to take a breathalyzer just to start the car as a prolonged reminder.  Maybe online forums should have a similar feature...

 

 

[Can't play on Nightmare]

5 minutes ago, guitardz said:

"I was drunk" isn't an excuse.  You know if you get caught driving drunk, they put this little thing in your car where you have to take a breathalyzer just to start the car as a prolonged reminder.  Maybe online forums should have a similar feature...

 

 

 

Can it be because you may kill somebody with drunk driving?

 

Eithet dont post on my thread or talk about what is asked.

 

There is no point of you making it last.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Can't play on Nightmare

[VanaheimRanger]

You're acting like words aren't capable of causing people pain...

 

Either way, I've made my point here, so I'm done.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

7 minutes ago, guitardz said:

You're acting like words aren't capable of causing people pain...

 

Either way, I've made my point here, so I'm done.

 

I said I was sorry. What else can I do?

[BigBoy91]

They're cool.

[The_SloVinator]

Afrits are cool but they aren't exactly an enemy you wanna spam in later stages, like Map 30. They are tedious to fight that way.

 

I liked fast evil marines once you got used to their attacks. Map 16 is called 'Mr.X' for a reason as it is a reference to SA-X from Metroid Fusion.

[D4NUK1]

Just now, The_SloVinator said:

Afrits are cool but they aren't exactly an enemy you wanna spam in later stages, like Map 30. They are tedious to fight that way.

 

I liked fast evil marines once you got used to their attacks. Map 16 is called 'Mr.X' for a reason as it is a reference to SA-X from Metroid Fusion.

That it's one good level where the custom enemies work with proper placement, instead of just being there to stop your fun like last maps.

[Grazza]

2 hours ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

Eithet dont post on my thread or talk about what is asked.

It's not "your" thread. Doesn't work that way here. Of course, most of your posts are blatant trolling, this one included, I suppose.

[Juza]

Afrits are kinda meh, the evil marines are pretty cool for secret and gimmicky levels, but for being used outside of those... they're not really balanced if grouped with hordes of other demons, usually. I always love to see enemies that practically run and gun at the same time (his firing animation lasts pretty much what, a single tic? so he's not technically moving and shooting, or so I've heard).

Edited July 28, 2020 by Juza