Does anybody think there should have been a new final boss for TFC or Sigil?

[Chip]

Recently, looking back on my playthroughs of Thy Flesh Consumed and Sigil, I realized their endings were pretty uneventful. I mean, sure, Thy Flesh Consumed had that build-up, then threw all of its enemies at you at once, but Sigil only had that Cyberdemon and that SM that you could totally evoid, or make them kill each other. I understand that you can't add more enemies (especially for Sigil), but couldn't they have done something more creative than using the same final bosses from the previous episodes? They could have made a fake new enemy, like a wall texture (like the IoS) that looks like Baphomet, with a mouth texture, behind which is like 2 cyberdemon that shoot rockets, that you have to take out to shoot a switch behind them that you can't see. I also have an Idea for Thy Flesh Consumed, where you go through a massive maze and hit switches that open areas, while an SM shoots from above, disguised as a hellish turret, that you can take out by getting to a final switch that activates a crusher, there are also like spectres and other demons in the maze. these are just simple ideas, but that isn't my point, I'm just wondering if anybody agrees that the final bosses should have been changed up to feel more satisfaction of finishing the game when they are killed?

 

(also, totally off topic, I've notices that I say Just in a lot of my posts, sorry if that annoys you, I can't help myself from writing it, LoL. Forget about this, though. this topic is about Sigil and TFC, not my posts)

[DuckReconMajor]

I agree. As much as I love both of these, having a crazy, out-there boss, even some wack monstrosity like the Icon of Sin would have made the endings of said wads that much more memorable.

[Nevander]

I think they are both fine as is. The last level of TFC felt like a much improved Dis. The ending of Inferno felt very boring and TFC delivered a more satisfying ending.

[Final Verdict]

I agree with @Nevander. TFC was fine as it was and didn't really need any new boss fights. It will always remain my favourite episode of Ultimate Doom.

 

However, I do believe Sigil could have used a new boss type. If Sigil had come out just after TFC then people would have said the same thing, it's amplified when you remember that Sigil was almost 30 years late to the party.

 

So yes, I think Sigil could have benefited from some kind of new boss, especially considering the amount of WAD's the Doom community has played/made. It's still a great Romero WAD, but some new textures or a new boss would have been the icing on the cake.

[Chip]

10 minutes ago, Final Verdict said:

So yes, I think Sigil could have benefited from some kind of new boss, especially considering the amount of WAD's the Doom community has played/made. It's still a great Romero WAD, but some new textures or a new boss would have been the icing on the cake.

The whole episode, I was waiting to kill that bastard who brought me here. Instead, I got a SM that I've fought twice already, making this the third. 

[DynamiteKaitorn]

The spider mastermind fight at the end of TFC was really easy... I mean Dis wasn't that much harder but yeah, a proper send off boss would've been cool. (the cyber mastermind? :o )

[Chip]

what do you think possible bosses could be, those who voted yes?

[smeghammer]

This was actually one of the things that struck me very quickly about TFC.

 

It is always nice to see a powerful new enemy, like those from R667, in custom WADs. There are some pretty badass ones there and the most striking for me are always those that are uber versions of stock monsters - particularly some of the BoH variants. Some of these would make excellent alternate ending bosses.  But I guess this was much harder to do back in the day.

[baja blast rd.]

SIGIL final boss. It can't be killed and it crashes the game when it looks at you. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Really though, being more creative wouldn't have required a new boss.

 

SIGIL reliably used the environment as a direct threat, such as with crushers, darkness, damaging hellcracks, footpaths crumbling beneath you in lava, and really thin rocky strips of land you had to inch across. 

 

A boss fight using elements like that right in the middle of battle would have been cool -- and also a significant change-up from the flat arenas of "Tower of Babel" and "Dis." 

Edited August 3, 2020 by ‹rd›

[plums]

I like Thy Flesh Consumed but it was very much a tacked-on thing to give GT a reason to sell Doom 1 in retail stores. There aren't even any new textures, other than the sky which was hacked out of the episode 3 ending graphics. A new boss definitely wasn't happening, and if it did it would have likely been rushed and poorly designed.

 

Having a more involved ending map that used the existing bosses is another thing, and would have nice for both episodes. I don't think E4M8 is bad though, especially from pistol start.

[seed]

On 8/1/2020 at 12:12 AM, Nevander said:

I think they are both fine as is. The last level of TFC felt like a much improved Dis. The ending of Inferno felt very boring and TFC delivered a more satisfying ending.

 

Basically this.

 

They worked just fine without them, and so did Final Doom. I guess it would've been a nice addition, but wasn't necessary.

[Melter]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:25 AM, LiT_gam3r said:

what do you think possible bosses could be, those who voted yes?

Baphomet for Sigil would have been cool. As for TFC can't think of anything original, maybe some cybie or smm variations.

[Pirx]

It's OK as it is, but it could have been better. Every iwad episode should have had its final boss. The bruiser Brothers were memorable, and the cyberdemon was pure terror for someone who could barely strafe. The mastermind in inferno... Not so much. I had the bfg ready and expected him to have the same gun. After all, he was supposed to be the cyberdemon's boss, right? 

 

So, a bit bland, but an episode with a boss nevertheless. The icon of sin, say of it what you want, it's an enemy wall, but the concept was new, I had no idea how to hurt him, and the map was terrifying. 

 

Final doom was disappointing in this regard, no new boss, despite plutonia mumbling about a gatekeeper in the intermission texts. And thy flesh consumed was by id, over a year after doom2, so again, I don't know how complicated making a sprite was back then, but when I see how quick some people can show sprite sheets on forums today, then it really should have got a boss, even if it was an afrit or some other goat variation. 

 

As for sigil, the maps were made by Romero in his free time, so that's OK, but if he asked for using a sprite made by someone else, I guess anyone would have been glad to help him. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Pirx

[Maximum Matt]

John Romero body.

[elend]

For Sigil not so much, but for TFC I would have enjoyed a new end boss tremendously. Generally I would love more new / custom bosses in Doom.

[94's the best style]

The least TFC could have done would be to give poor mastermind a proper arena to fight you in, why does the largest monster in the game get the the least legroom, and why is there always some chump baron who will immediately turn on his master, did they design these battles to be pacifist friendly?

[vanilla_d00m]

TFC yes... OFC because when I saw you have to do the same fight but with more monsters it became a little repetitive.  The same with sigil... but then the music makes up for that (+1 James Paddock hope my donation from months ago helped you) and I say its passable for me now. 

 

I got used to TFC now since I played it alot, so I don't really notice it now as much. It's a great EP.  So I guess "No, neither. It's good as is"

Edited August 8, 2020 by vanilla_d00m

[Gez]

Sigil may have been made by one of the original authors, it doesn't matter, it's still a fanwork. As such it does not have the ways of adding new content that official expansions like Ultimate Doom had.

 

But even then, a new boss is more than could be reasonably expected. Instead, I think TFC should have added a couple of enemies from Doom II -- namely, the arch-vile and hell knight (not any of the cyborg demons, since in Doom 1 it's just the bosses that have cybernetic parts and I think that's an important part of its identity). This would not have represented a big effort for id (since they already had these resources after all) and it would have helped sell TFC as a transition towards Doom II.

[random_soldier1337]

Sure, why not? More completely new content is always good. Would be great too if we got something not dumb like the wall texture IoS, or the meat sponge, big damage, cyberdemon/spider mastermind. If nothing else, at least there would be new assets to play with.

[Soundblock]

On 8/2/2020 at 11:25 PM, LiT_gam3r said:

what do you think possible bosses could be, those who voted yes?

 

Giant Caco-queen puking acidic bodyparts that bounce around & crawl after you