DOOM Unity port WAD Suggestion thread

[Chip]

Some of you may remember my topic about what WADs should be added to DOOM, but as of today, DOOM Unity Port allows DeHackEd, meaning you can have new weapons, new enemy behaviors, and so much more! So my question for you is, what gameplay mod should be added to DOOM Unity? There are so many to choose from! 

 

This is so exciting! I am literally dancing in my chair right now! And Norwegian Wood just started to play on my playlist, so this is officially the best day ever! 

 

EEEEEEEE-WWOOOWowoWOWOWowOW-HooOooOOoOOOOooooooOOoOOooo-Eeeasoeooseoooeooo! 

[D4NUK1]

One word-

Eviternity.

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, jamondemarnatural said:

One word-

Eviternity.

One answer:

That's an MBF compatible wad, so it needs a MBF-compatible port. Doom Unity is not that.

 

@LiT_gam3rBe advised that the Unity port supports DeHacked lumps inside the wad, not a seperate .DEH's. Most modern TC's do it this way AFAIK, but older TC's either supplied a DEH or had an older, binary based patch.

 

So expect high compat's, just not all.

[Gez]

The obvious answers are REKKR and Hacx. Theoretically, Harmony could be supported with some more work--the only reason it needs ZDoom is its high-res sprites, which are scaled with DeHackEd. Adding support for high-res sprites to the engine isn't too hard, just add a scale property to the mobj_t structure and plug it into the sprite drawing code -- which already knows how to scale sprites, after all.

 

There are other interesting TCs that could technically be supported, but there's potential licensing issues with mods like Batman Doom or Aliens TC.

[P41R47]

Struggle: Antaresian Legacy would be a neat. On par with BTSX on mapping complexity and duration and some amazing dehacked work on it.
But the great usage of sprites from Heretic, the music, and some textures maybe would difficulty it.
Maybe @antares031 would like work on a compat version for it.
Time will tell.

Another one that is good but i highly doubt it will be releasd is Comatose by Lainos. Not heavy on dehacked, but enough to make it one of the best survival experiences, inmersive and frightening out there.

One thats little old but i love and it surely will have some attention is Osiris.
Neat dehacked work and sprite work, but again, maybe there are problem with the sprites being from other game (are they fro other game?).

STRAIN is a good contender, but not on par, even being a top 100, with the releases that the Unity port made.
I remember that Sponge said they prefer projects from the last 10 years or so.

 

I would like to say TNT: Revilution, but knowing all the people that are not on the community anymore that contributed to it, i doubt it.

Then we have two excellent cacoward from recent years.
-Alpha Accident: Terra Nova by Wraith777
-Nihility: Infinity Teeth by Year
Pretty good vanilla episodes with a lot of dehacked work.

REKKR is a must, it has everything. Best maps, best ideas, best music, best dehacked work, best sprites.
But Revae has another plans for it, but well, this kind of oportunity is also good i think.
He deserve to be paid  for his work. I would gladly give him $20 dollars for a full REKKR.

Epic would be cool, a little bit short maybe, but it has some boom actions i think.

Scythe 2...again unreacheable author and multiple texture rips and sprites issues.

Beside those, after double checking again and again my wads folder, there are not much limit Removing or vanilla with extensive dehacked work.
HACX and Batman Doom, Obituary, All Hell is Breaking Loose, Aliens TC...
I highly doubt this could be released, as Gez said, because licencing first, and then because unreacheable authors.

 

If they somehow make the port to be even more complex, adding boom and mbf compatiblity (i highly doubt it) then the answeers are easier:
Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Eviternity
 

Edited September 3, 2020 by P41R47

[Gez]

Oh I know: Chex Quest.

 

Spoon and zorch, until it is eaten.

[P41R47]

19 minutes ago, Gez said:

Oh I know: Chex Quest.

 

Spoon and zorch, until it is eaten.

I would love to see Chex Quest 3 adapted to it. Chex Quest 1 and 2 feels barebones without the third entry.
But i don't know how much zdoom actions Charles Jacobi uses per map (aside from decorate actors).

We know what kind of dehacked the port uses?
Maybe dehextra or the doom retro enhanced dehacked (i think they are the same now) with a ton of empty states could solve the problem of replacing and not adding new content of the original dehacked.

Edited September 3, 2020 by P41R47

[Redneckerz]

50 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Struggle: Antaresian Legacy would be a neat. On par with BTSX on mapping complexity and duration and some amazing dehacked work on it.

• Struggle is limit-removing, so beyond Dehacked.
• Comatose is PrBoom+.
• Osiris has a seperate DEH.
• Strain is possible.
• Alpha Accident uses Doom-plus + DEH, so that's not possible.
• Nihility is possible. As is Rekkr and Hacx.
• All Hell is a old TC so is likely seperate DEH.
• Aliens is a binary patch afaik.

50 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

I would like to say TNT: Revilution, but knowing all the people that are not on the community anymore that contributed to it, i doubt it.

It is atleast Vanilla-Ok.

50 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Stuff

Out of what you mentioned a lot is not compatible. Its strictly Vanilla + standard DEH in a lump, not seperate.

[Faceman2000]

19 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

• Struggle is limit-removing, so beyond Dehacked.
• Alpha Accident uses Doom-plus + DEH, so that's not possible.

The new ports are limit-removing, so unless there’s something I’m missing here both of those are non-issues.

 

I’m admittedly not very familiar with the finer workings of Dehacked, but in the case of wads with the Dehacked patch included externally, couldn’t you just add it into the wad via Slade and bingo?

[P41R47]

45 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Struggle is limit-removing, so beyond Dehacked.

Unity port is limit removing... or i'm wrong? And dehacked work with limit removing, so i don't understand this, can you elavorate, please?

 

45 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Comatose is PrBoom+.

I completed Comatose on Crispy-Doom a few years ago, and it didn't have any update, so i think Comatose is pretty much limit removing with an internal dehacked lump.

 

45 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Osiris has a seperate DEH.

45 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Alpha Accident uses Doom-plus + DEH, so that's not possible.

Any separate dehacked could be easily implemented inside the wad, so i don't think that is something to stop them to be worked on.

Doom+ is just Doom.exe with limits raised, something similar to any kind of limit removing port.

 

45 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Aliens is a binary patch afaik.

From the wiki:
In addition to the replacement maps, textures, and sounds, the mod uses extensive DeHackEd modifications to create new weapons and monsters.
 

And the inside of the original zip uploaded to /idgames:

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by P41R47

[TheNoob_Gamer]

..If the ports now only recognize the Dehacked lump inside a wad I wonder why the team couldn't do such small work of putting .deh files of older mods inside them.

[Revae]

Just now, TheNoob_Gamer said:

..If the ports now only recognize the Dehacked lump inside a wad I wonder why the team couldn't do such small work of putting .deh files of older mods inside them.

They could. It would just be a drag and drop and then renaming the lump to "DEHACKED".

[P41R47]

5 minutes ago, Revae said:

They could. It would just be a drag and drop and then renaming the lump to "DEHACKED".

 

1 hour ago, P41R47 said:

REKKR is a must, it has everything. Best maps, best ideas, best music, best dehacked work, best sprites.
But Revae has another plans for it, but well, this kind of oportunity is also good i think.
He deserve to be paid  for his work. I would gladly give him $20 dollars for a full REKKR.

Just take my money Rev, just take it, i know you come here for that.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

17 minutes ago, Revae said:

They could. It would just be a drag and drop and then renaming the lump to "DEHACKED".

Indeed. I am addressing Redneckerz's point of having to have the Dehacked embedded.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Anyway, if the ports support multi-mod loading in the foreseeable future; I think having fraggle's Smooth Doom weapons and D4V would be excellent.

 

[Gothic]

Stuff like Batman Doom and Aliens TC would be hard because of copyright stuff, being properties from Warner & Disney Fox respectively. The obvious choice is Hacx, but I wish it had a better ending.

Revilution would be cool, but it uses stuff from other games (the turrets are from Duke Nukem, and I believe there are textures derivated from non-id games)

[Chip]

9 minutes ago, Gothic said:

Revilution would be cool, but it uses stuff from other games (the turrets are from Duke Nukem, and I believe there are textures derivated from non-id games)

It is so easy to change textures, and the Duke Nukem sprite could easily be replaced by another one. 

[P41R47]

16 minutes ago, Gothic said:

Revilution would be cool, but it uses stuff from other games (the turrets are from Duke Nukem, and I believe there are textures derivated from non-id games)

I would really love to see TNT: Revilution up there.
Not only you guys made an awesome work, but also Kyka, even if he is not around anymore, deserve his work to be recognized.
He really loved the TNT2 project, and after the struggle and separation, he started to lose his confidence.
And i can say its a shame, for sure.
TNT: Revilution has his signature on almost every map.
 

12 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

It is so easy to change textures, and the Duke Nukem sprite could easily be replaced by another one. 

Yes, its easy to change them, but more importantly i think is that a lot of authors on it are not around anymore, so it will be difficult to get their approval.

[cybdmn]

5 hours ago, P41R47 said:

Unity port is limit removing... or i'm wrong?
 

 

Is it? I was under the impresssion that it have the limits raised, as in Doom Classic to support NRFTL.

[sponge]

There’s doesn’t seem to be a consistent definition for limits removing, since even in PRB+ and such some of the limits were raised and not removed, but NEIS, SIGIL, and NRFTL all require beyond vanilla capabilities. Anything that requires the extended node formats won’t work for sure though. 

[Redneckerz]

17 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

The new ports are limit-removing, so unless there’s something I’m missing here both of those are non-issues.

If Classic Unity is limit-removing in the defined sense of the word, then yes. But as Sponge lays out, the Classic Unity port supports extended nodes.

 

If that's all that's needed for a port to be limit-removing then ill edit the Classic Unity entry on the Wiki to reflect that it is a limit-removing port.

17 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

 

I’m admittedly not very familiar with the finer workings of Dehacked, but in the case of wads with the Dehacked patch included externally, couldn’t you just add it into the wad via Slade and bingo?

You can, but whether or not that is alright enough for the conversion process i dunno.

 

A interesting thought experiment would be to look at Choco Doom's auto Dehacked loader, or VULD to automatically merge patches in, though it is a x86 program.

17 hours ago, P41R47 said:

Unity port is limit removing... or i'm wrong? And dehacked work with limit removing, so i don't understand this, can you elavorate, please?

 

I completed Comatose on Crispy-Doom a few years ago, and it didn't have any update, so i think Comatose is pretty much limit removing with an internal dehacked lump.

For the first see, above. I am not sure what exactly entails being limit removing - For the second, its on the wiki as a PrBoom+ compatible thing, so i suppose it requires Boom levels of limit raising.

 

Crispy is a more unique example in that it raises a lot more limits and has the DEHEXTRA standard to boot.

17 hours ago, P41R47 said:

 

Any separate dehacked could be easily implemented inside the wad, so i don't think that is something to stop them to be worked on.

Doom+ is just Doom.exe with limits raised, something similar to any kind of limit removing port.

But that requires additional work. And in the case of older TC's that may not be possible or they need to be converted from binary to text-based DEH first.
Alpha requires that DoomP exe, so i am not sure how easy it is to port across to any other limit- removing port, because DoomP does not remove limits, it raises them in the vanilla executable. This is a important distinction to make. It has to be 100% compatible to Vanilla yet still have raised limits.

17 hours ago, P41R47 said:

 

From the wiki:
In addition to the replacement maps, textures, and sounds, the mod uses extensive DeHackEd modifications to create new weapons and monsters.
 

And the inside of the original zip uploaded to /idgames:

 

There are multiple DEH's there. If they are older (Aliens TC is an older one) its likely binary based. There are fixes ofcourse.

11 hours ago, sponge said:

There’s doesn’t seem to be a consistent definition for limits removing, since even in PRB+ and such some of the limits were raised and not removed, but NEIS, SIGIL, and NRFTL all require beyond vanilla capabilities. Anything that requires the extended node formats won’t work for sure though. 

Question time! If there is only support for embedded DEH files inside wads, what's the story around PWADS with new graphics then?

[sponge]

1 minute ago, Redneckerz said:

If Classic Unity is limit-removing in the defined sense of the word, then yes. But as Sponge lays out, the Classic Unity port supports extended nodes.

 

Question time! If there is only support for embedded DEH files inside wads, what's the story around PWADS with new graphics then?

Just a clarification, we don't support the extended node formats that some node builders can build. We are subject to limits due to the original node builder file formats.

 

I'm not sure if I understand the question, but we only support DEH through a DEHACKED lump, which can usually be pretty easily added into the WAD file by SLADE for people wanting to sideload mods. Our WAD support is otherwise mostly equivalent with vanilla, with all the pitfalls and tricks involved with adding new sprites, flats, and so on that it entails. We don't read multiple TEXTURE1/2/PNAMES lumps or anything like that. There are some changes around how it detects IWADs so we can ship mods like BTSX as an IWAD and have it work in both games.

[Gokuma]

Don't mean to nominate my own especially since it's a sporadic replacement and addition of maps, but I just want to say it's freaking awesome that E4M1 vanilla dehacked Quadball in D1EntryHangar works in Doom Classic now without me having to even update anything.   So now that's another good port making it easy to play splitscreen and my wad just got more universally compatible on its own.  And Nightmare demos play back correctly now too.   Should be interesting to see megawads or miniepisodes with changed up monsters and weapons in the official selected ones in the future, such as that vanilla Doom 4 or some of Doomkid's stuff.   I always liked Werner Spahl's Theme Patch but even though it's all modified Doom graphics, the intellectual content might be a legal prob and it's short on maps.  At least it should work for PC players.  Some compilation megawads putting together various people's miscellaneous maps previously released separately might be a cool idea.

 

You and the team rock!  Thank you @sponge

Edited September 4, 2020 by Gokuma

[Devalaous]

I'd say Doom 64 in Doom 2 would be a good dehacked mod to add, as its recent enough, but at the same time, doesnt that cut into sales of the Doom 64 port? The levels are actually very different to Doom 64, but the guys at Bethesda might freak over the concept.

[scalliano]

UAC Ultra.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

2 hours ago, scalliano said:

UAC Ultra.

...is a Boom-compatible PWAD. Unlikely for the time being.

[P41R47]

21 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

You can, but whether or not that is alright enough for the conversion process i dunno.

 

A interesting thought experiment would be to look at Choco Doom's auto Dehacked loader, or VULD to automatically merge patches in, though it is a x86 program.

Choco3.0 doesn't load up the internal dehacked lumps, you have to load them with -deh command. Maybe a dev build make it, don't know.
As for if its not enough for the conversion, just check it yourself. Load REKKRv1.16.wad on choco along the dehacked with -deh command line, then load just REKKRv1.16.wad on crispy, its practically the same experience, so putting a file inside a wad with slade is not that much trouble.
And REKKR is 100% copatible with original Ultimate Doom exe.
(also, can you help me with VULD later? i can't seem to run it properly)

 

21 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

For the first see, above. I am not sure what exactly entails being limit removing - For the second, its on the wiki as a PrBoom+ compatible thing, so i suppose it requires Boom levels of limit raising.

 

Crispy is a more unique example in that it raises a lot more limits and has the DEHEXTRA standard to boot.

Alpha requires that DoomP exe, so i am not sure how easy it is to port across to any other limit- removing port, because DoomP does not remove limits, it raises them in the vanilla executable. This is a important distinction to make. It has to be 100% compatible to Vanilla yet still have raised limits.

Then we can ask @sponge how much the parameter were raised to be sure. And also what kind of dehacked the port uses. Regular dehacked or Dehextra.

Doom2p.exe raises the parameter the following way:

limit                                          : old * k = new
-------------------------------------------------------
visplanes[MAXVISPLANES]         : 128 * 8 = 1024
drawsegs[MAXDRAWSEGS]         : 256 * 8 = 2048
SAVEGAMESIZE                         : 180224 * 16 = 2883584
activeplats[MAXPLATS]               : 30 * 256 = 7680
vissprites[MAXVISSPRITE]            : 128 * 8 = 1024
linespeciallist[MAXLINEANIMS]      : 64 * 256 = 16384
openings[MAXOPENINGS]            : 16384 * 4 = 65536

if the raised limit Crispy, Woof! and Prboom+ are far above this numbers.
Most limit removing wad i played tried with Doom2+ work fine
So if the unity port have values far above this numbers, we are safe about what kind of wad could be played on it.
 

21 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

But that requires additional work. And in the case of older TC's that may not be possible or they need to be converted from binary to text-based DEH first.

 

21 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

There are multiple DEH's there. If they are older (Aliens TC is an older one) its likely binary based. There are fixes ofcourse.

Limit removing wads are 100% vanilla compatible, and dehacked is aslo 100% vanilla compatible (except dehextra and bex)
Also don't worry much about the binary based changed. Aliens TC is one of the first TC, made in 1994 and it already had dehacked patches that worked perfectly with it. You can play Aliens TC on chocolate, too.
I checked what kind of chages were on the patches of Aliens TC, one has the monster behaviour and the new guns, and the other has the automaps names. I just added the automaps names to the other patch with dehacked and its works just right.

Anyway, talking about Aliens TC is irrelevant, it would never be added to the port, licensing and copyrights are heavy loads to it.
The point of me taking about it is that there are not much TC or PC out there, and if there is one that could be added, with just loading the deh inside the wad it works right.

Also, we are all forgetting the best dehacked fueled megawad from the last year:
DOOM ZERO
One author mega project that made some dehacked tweaks to the guns animations and add two new monsters.
And has some of the best mapping tricks i had seen in a long time. Is fun as hell, have nice visuals, and tries to tied the story to the new games. So its a perfect candidate for the unity port.

Edited September 5, 2020 by P41R47

[D4NUK1]

Oh yeah, DOOM Zero it's good even if one of thoses new enemies gave me trouble.

Epic secret levels, and a really inovate figth style for the IoS. My vote also goes for that!

[maxmanium]

44 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Choco3.0 doesn't load up the internal dehacked lumps, you have to load them with -deh command.

 

You can load internal DEHACKED lumps with -dehlump.

[P41R47]

1 hour ago, maxmanium said:

 

You can load internal DEHACKED lumps with -dehlump.

ah yes, i forget about this.
Well its easier to try on chocolate then.

Edited September 5, 2020 by P41R47