Is Plutonia 2 worth playing?

[DooM Bear]

I’ve been playing Plutonia 2 the last couple of nights and wanted to see what you guys think about it?

 

I’m only about half way through or so (about map 13) but so far it’s kinda... shite and feels nothing like Plutonia :-P

 

Lots and lots and lots of annoying invisible walls, long maze like levels, and just not particularly difficult so far.

 

Am I just jumping the gun with this and the second half is absolutely stand out (it did receive a 2009 cacoaward after all!) or is this a case of a “you needed to play it back in the day” kinda WAD that has ages like fine milk?

[idbeholdME]

I played it a few years ago (2017 I think?) and had fun with it. Liked the difficulty on UV-fast and to me, it was one of the better mega WADs I've played. Cool music too and don't forget about the 33rd level.

 

So yeah, I would probably recommend it.

[vdgg]

You didn't like MAP09, wow... But give it a chance at least to MAP17, 20 and 26.

[plums]

I really liked Plutonia 2 when I played it, but I agree that it feels very little like the original Plutonia. If you don't like it so far, you might not like the rest too much either... IIRC the 3rd episode is full of hot-starts, which may or may not improve your opinion of it when you get there.

[Deadwing]

It's an uneven package, IMO, and it's nothing like Plutonia 1.

Some maps are really awesome though, especially the Gusta ones.

[SilverMiner]

1 hour ago, vdgg said:

But give it a chance at least to MAP17, 20 and 26.

I think @DooM Bear will spend at least an hour to find the blue key at map16 lol

And then die to overhelming non-linearity of map17

[Doom-X-Machina]

I dig Plutonia 2. Played through it for the 3rd or 4th time about 6 months ago.

[Scotty]

I used to hate on Plutonia 2 for similar reasons to the OP until i kinda just accepted it for being its own thing, then i began to appreciate it more - i can see that it tries to build upon the foundations to create something new and push vanilla limits rather than just straight up rehashing what the Casalis did in the original - however, i would agree that the bad maps really horrendously miss the mark and are basically just random maps painted with Plutonia textures. Gusta's maps are the most Casali-esque in terms of mapping philosophy although my previous point about PL2 expanding upon the original still applies. The rampant invisible walls are a "speedrunner-friendly" trope of Gusta's mapping. If you explore some of the development builds of Plutonia 2 you may also appreciate what we got in the end a bit more, because it could have been much, much worse.

 

edit - on a re-read this post seems very negative but i do very much think that PL2 is worth playing - my stance improved on subsequent playthroughs so maybe that is the case for others too!

Edited September 10, 2020 by Scotty

[3saster]

Plutonia 2 is excellent for me, it blows PL1 out of the water imo. It is clear it's inspired by PL1, but at the end of the day, it's very much its own thing, and even the levels that are "imitating" the original level still do their own thing and go for the "bigger, better, meaner" sequel approach (MAP11 is a clear example). That being said, I'm surprised you are through the first half or so and still didn't like any of the levels, that's quite odd. If there's one point where the quality of PL2 is especially rocky, I'd say it's the first half of the third episode (namely the 21-24 stretch), but the rest is pretty solid stuff for the most part imo. I'd say at least stick with it to around MAP20, there are some real gems in there. MAP17, in particular, is one of the single best maps I've ever played in any doom wad, it's an incredible showcase of how to do true, non-linear design well (MAP18 after it is quite excellent too). Anders Johnsen and Martin Hunsager of Alien Vendetta fame did a review of the mapset which is a fun read (keep in mind they played it in co-op though). That being said, if you didn't like Plutonia 2 til now, I have a feeling you won't like the rest, but like I said, stick with it for a little bit longer at least. It's fine if you don't like it btw; just cause everyone else loves it, doesn't mean you have to (and vice-versa)!

Something else I should note is you may want to check out Plutonia: Revisited. Whereas PL2 is a sequel, PRCP is a community project "re-imaging" of Plutonia, so many of the levels are very similar to their original counterparts, while the overall package is closer to the style of PL1 then PL2 is (though many levels are also rather different). I liked PL2 much more than PRCP, but your mileage may vary. I will note that at least for me, PRCP was forgettable at best for the first half; all the good and great levels popped up in the second half.

[esselfortium]

It's definitely not Plutonia in anything but visual theme, but it's a lot of fun IMO. There are a few weak maps in there, but most of my memories of playing PL2 are really positive.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

PL2 is very much worth playing.

[StoneMason]

Gusta's maps alone make it a pretty standout megawad IMO. Easily one of the best mappers of the 00's era for me.

[DooM Bear]

Huh Ok then I’ll keep going with it :-D Thanks all!

 

I think the big problem is I was expecting more Plutonia and got disappointed that chaingunner’s weren’t pushing my poo in every two seconds :-P Will try to think of it as it’s own thing and not really as “Plutonia 2” from now on :-D

 

Should also say for people that haven’t played, I think me calling it shite originally might be a bit misleading. It isn’t bad (apart from the invisible walls - they really annoy me :-P) and has some pretty cool things (like the ghost Nazi’s in map 32) :-)

[Lila Feuer]

Had a wonderful time with it in co-op via Skulltag back in 2009. Still need to solo it.

[Graf Zahl]

2 hours ago, StoneMason said:

Gusta's maps alone make it a pretty standout megawad IMO. Easily one of the best mappers of the 00's era for me.

 

Gusta's maps were far and away the standouts in Plutonia 2, I wish he'd done more. Some of the rest of the project was rather uneven, especially in the final third of the maps.

 

[SilverMiner]

23 hours ago, Scotty said:

If you explore some of the development builds of Plutonia 2 you may also appreciate what we got in the end a bit more, because it could have been much, much worse.

I don't think so, it could've been a good new Hell Revealed like megawad if the project's name wasn't P2 but something like Hell Revealed X.

[erzboesewicht]

I'm just playing it for the first time, in an attempt to complete the "classics".

My impression at first was not that good, the first couple of maps simply in my opinion didn't really stand out - they are kinda standard "medium-to-high difficulty" maps, maybe also the brownness didn't help. But advancing in the mapset I appreciate it now much more. There are definitively masterpiece maps in it - 17 and 20 were already mentioned, I also liked some of the weirdnesses of MAP21 ... if there weren't these **** switches it would be one of my favorites too.

 

So in general I agree with "mixed bag". Some maps really have a Plutonia feeling, others not that much. Until now I think P2 is also surprisingly a little bit easier than the original, at least I still didn't feel the extreme dickishness of maps like "The Twilight" or "Speed" (although I'm still not finished, I'm currently playing MAP24). However P2's maps tend to be larger and feature more monsters so playing them in one shot saveless may be harder.

Edited September 11, 2020 by erzboesewicht

[Firedust]

Plutonia 2 rules, you just have to keep an open mind and not expect it to play in the same way its predecessor does. If you want something that has similar gameplay to the original, go for PRCP instead.

[Cutman 999]

Plut2 is an acquired taste. If you want to stick with it, you have to consider that it's not like plutonia at all, and is just a set of harder, longer, and harder to pick up and play levels compared to plut1. Even with that, the maps made by Gusta have really interesting incidental combat, with lots of options in how you play through his continuous, interconnected layouts. Also, the soundtrack is fucking good.

[Cutman 999]

On 9/9/2020 at 11:45 AM, Scotty said:

 If you explore some of the development builds of Plutonia 2 you may also appreciate what we got in the end a bit more, because it could have been much, much worse.

 

Ok i want to play that shit, even if it sucks.

[Lila Feuer]

I loved it back in the day, it was the one time me and two strangers finished a megawad in co-op in one sitting, granted they or one of them seemed to know where to go so my lagging behind or relentless dying didn't drag things out too much, we even warped to MAP33 at the end.

 

Had a much overdue single player continuous in 2021 and it was a blast I remember it being. Then I went through it again like a month ago after having played the original Plutonia prior and had very different feelings. Visually some of the maps look nice, and there are some good fights to be had, but man I think they missed the point, it's similar to HR2 in terms of divisiveness, but I remember seeing PRCP come out three years later and reading everyone praise that WAD so much more, calling it the real Plutonia 2. I went through it very recently and had a much better time, a lot of my issues with PL2 had disappeared or otherwise had been kept to an absolute minimum.

 

Besides PL2 not doing a very good job imo of respecting PL1's format of small to medium maps with relatively low monster counts and often fiendish traps my biggest gripe was one 30 minute or more map practically being one after the other, that usually weren't particularly hard, just absolute slogs, and MAP29 was the worst at being an hour long and BORING. 12 and a half hour playthrough, whereas for me in my experience most megawads last 8 to 10 hours, unless you're Eternal Doom.

 

I don't think it's a bad WAD, but it's honestly a lame Plutonia, I'm glad I played it again, but I'm also glad to have moved on. I'm on PRCP 2 atm and despite being rejects for the WIP PL3 I'm really enjoying these and they knew they deviated from the format a lot with these and I could tell just by idcleving around for a sneak peak but they're just so fun to play and nice to look at so far, so if you like PL2's aesthetics but don't find the gameplay so hot at times and aren't concerned with authenticity then I think PRCP 2 would probably be the more enjoyable WAD, despite it being outtakes.

 

E: I had no idea this thread was necro'd. I'll just add that I agree the good maps in here are really good, Gusta's in particular, and I actually liked the nonlinear MAP17 just because it was one of the best flowing open-ended maps I've played, Plutonia format be damned I was impressed.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Lila Feuer

[Akagi666]

It's great, especially the Gusta levels. Map 11 and 33 are garbage though.

[Lila Feuer]

I actually liked Arch-Violence, but Chocolate felt like a b-side they decided to leave in and when that cyberdemon decided to awkwardly show up at the end I was already at the exit.

[Akagi666]

42 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

I actually liked Arch-Violence, but Chocolate felt like a b-side they decided to leave in and when that cyberdemon decided to awkwardly show up at the end I was already at the exit.

Play it without saves and lose runs to the archvile swarm at the end and tell me how much you like it after that. That was my experience so I hated it lol. The rest of the level is slow and boring then there's a very skill testing fight at the very end. This is a trope I have always despised in maps. I don't mind something being difficult or taking a lot of attempts, but don't put a really slow, boring slog before it please.

 

Chocolate was just weird and felt out of place. Did not feel like it fit at all (which is why it's super duper secret.)

Edited October 19, 2023 by Akagi666

[Jayextee]

I have no idea why this topic got bumped, but I love me some PL2. After burning out from an attempt at Hell Revealed, I decided to give PRCP2 another go (I tried once, hit a wall at MAP03, which is a brutal early entry IMO, have now attempted again and the difficulty settles after that spike) and am probably going to work my way backwards through PRCP > PL2 > PL1.

I love 'em all, difficulty-wise they're such a comfy spot for me; challenging without burning my poor attention span out too hard. I'm also a sucker for the Plutonia aesthetics, too.

[Finnisher]

I'm playing through Plutonia 2 atm for the first time (have an ongoing playthrough on my YT channel actually) and I do like it! Just got to map 32.

 

I particularly like it's not trying to be Plutonia but just inspired by it. The difficulty is a lot fairer overall I feel even if still rather trap-heavy.

For that reason I'm not sure if it's objectively easier but rather it doesn't cheapshot you as often as og Plutonia.

 

Some maps feel a little "vanilla" maybe but that is by design too I imagine. Not every wad needs to be massive super detailed maps, great as such maps and wads are.

 

That said I do find wads such as Sunlust or Going Down to be notably better than P2 but P2 is quite good regardless, imo.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Finnisher

[Jayextee]

15 minutes ago, Finnisher said:

Some maps feel a little "vanilla" maybe

Given that PL2 targeted vanilla compat, I couldn't begin to guess why this might be...

[RHhe82]

The thread looks old, but as it is now bumped, I want to say I recently played PL2 for the first time -- and loved it. People say it's not properly Plutonia, and while that may be true, it's still a damn good wad. There's a couple mediocre-ish outings, I suppose, and I didn't like at all, which would be the archvile map, MAP11 was it? Other than that, PL2 lands easily in the category of WADs I'm just waiting for good enough opportunity and excuse to replay.

[Lila Feuer]

2 hours ago, Akagi666 said:

Play it without saves and lose runs to the archvile swarm at the end and tell me how much you like it after that.

 

OH yeah that ending was ridiculous, it's shit like that I consider to be artificial difficulty. Like "Oh OF COURSE this would kill the player the first time and have a high success rate every time after that...you want a cookie?" I actually got lucky on my last attempt and happened to be running near the entrance to the area as I got my ass lit up and it propelled me out. I was then able to kill the AVs with zero difficulty because they couldn't get a line of sight on me. Nothing else in the entire WAD came close to this besides the Icon which was really tryhard.

[Akagi666]

48 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

 

OH yeah that ending was ridiculous, it's shit like that I consider to be artificial difficulty. Like "Oh OF COURSE this would kill the player the first time and have a high success rate every time after that...you want a cookie?" I actually got lucky on my last attempt and happened to be running near the entrance to the area as I got my ass lit up and it propelled me out. I was then able to kill the AVs with zero difficulty because they couldn't get a line of sight on me. Nothing else in the entire WAD came close to this besides the Icon which was really tryhard.

I did that archvile jump strategy the first time I played it a while back. I'm replaying it now and could not get it to work consistently in practice so I just BFG'd them all. It's a lot easier to do the AV jump in GZ Doom because you get knocked higher for whatever reason.

I wouldn't consider it "artificial difficulty," but I do think it's out of place on that map.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Akagi666