Quick basic questions about posting WADs with reused content

[Pokemanic33]

First off, sorry if this is the wrong forum. I'm not quite sure where it should go.

 

I have two questions, both on a similar subject:

 

Firstly, textures. Posting WADs with unmodified vanilla assets is disallowed for obvious reasons, but what if I want to use textures from multiple IWADs? For example, what if I was making a Doom 2 WAD and wanted to use textures from Ultimate Doom or one of the Final Doom WADs? They aren't included in Doom 2, so I would have to import them into my WAD. Would that classify as distributing unmodified assets?

 

Secondly, music. I know /idgames will reject WADs with copyrighted sounds and digital music, but does the same apply to MIDIs? Is using MIDI covers of existing songs allowed, or is it in violation of one or both of those rules? Furthermore, do these rules also apply to submitting WADs in threads on Doomworld proper? (/idgames is a little intimidating...)

[ReX]

23 hours ago, Pokemanic33 said:

For example, what if I was making a Doom 2 WAD and wanted to use textures from Ultimate Doom or one of the Final Doom WADs? They aren't included in Doom 2, so I would have to import them into my WAD. Would that classify as distributing unmodified assets?

Yes. Any copyrighted content may not be included for distribution.

 

23 hours ago, Pokemanic33 said:

Secondly, music. I know /idgames will reject WADs with copyrighted sounds and digital music, but does the same apply to MIDIs? Is using MIDI covers of existing songs allowed, or is it in violation of one or both of those rules?

No, the same does not apply to MIDIs. You may include MIDIs of existing songs under a few caveats:

 

1. If you create the MIDI yourself there are no permissions you need to seek. This would qualify as "fair use". [But see Item 2, below.]

2. If you wish to sell your wad with the MIDI cover of an existing song there might be some copyright issues you need to consider. Judging by the fact that you wish to upload to /idgames, I'll wager that you are not trying to sell your wad. So this issue seems to be irrelevant.

3. If you use a MIDI cover of an existing song, but that MIDI has been created by someone else, you might need to get permissions from the MIDI creator. At the very least, you should provide credit to the MIDI creator.

 

23 hours ago, Pokemanic33 said:

Furthermore, do these rules also apply to submitting WADs in threads on Doomworld proper? (/idgames is a little intimidating...)

Yes, the same rules apply.

Edited September 22, 2020 by ReX
Added information

[Pokemanic33]

@ReX Alright, thanks then, that's super helpful. So if I wanted to include textures from multiple IWADs, how would I go about that? Would I tell people to use WadSmoosh? Or would I just not include those textures at all?

Edited September 22, 2020 by Pokemanic33

[ReX]

@Pokemanic33 Here are answers to your questions:

 

Q1. So if I wanted to include textures from multiple IWADs, how would I go about that?

A1. The operative word here is "include". As you've probably gathered, you can't include any of the IWAD textures with any PWAD (or resource wad) you distribute. I assume your question refers to using textures from multiple IWADS but not including them in the file(s) you distribute.

 

Q2. Would I tell people to use WadSmoosh?

A2. If you absolutely needed to use textures from multiple IWADS, you'd need to instruct the user to apply a utility such as WadSmoosh, and specify with IWADS would need to be "smooshed". So, yes.

 

Q3. Or would I just not include those textures at all?

A3. This is probably the preferred alternative. Personally, I would almost certainly not play a game that required me to combine several IWADs, unless the game promised to be so good as to justify the effort (and the resulting file clutter) involved in combining them. This is especially true if I was doing this just to play one game. [Others, of course, might feel differently.]

 

One option is to consider using equivalent textures from Freedoom. I believe those resources are available for distribution with your own work. ["All material in the project is released under a modified BSD license, so other projects may reuse any of the Freedoom resources for their own purposes."] Of course, you should give the Freedoom project team credit for any of their resources you use and distribute.

 

Another option is to identify alternative textures that are suitable substitutes. First pick what your primary IWAD (say, DooM2) is to be. Then identify the texture from your secondary IWAD (say, The Ultimate DooM) you have included that is unique to that IWAD (say, COMP2). Then find and use a texture in your primary IWAD that will serve as a suitable substitute (e.g., COMPTALL). There are some limitations of this method, particularly for animated textures (e.g., SLADRIPx) and textures with odd dimensions (e.g., COMPUTE2) for which you might not find an exact match.

[Pokemanic33]

@ReX Pesky copyright laws keeping me from using Plutonia's waterfall.

 

At the end of the day though, I make vanilla-style WADs so it probably wouldn't be hard to edit standard textures to make what I want.

Assuming that's something that's allowed, of course.

 

Thanks again with your help and patience.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Pokemanic33

[esselfortium]

In practice, textures from different IWADs get reused all the time. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Pokemanic33]

2 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

In practice, textures from different IWADs get reused all the time. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

Yeah, I'm sure I could get away with it, especially if I was using vanilla textures, no one would probably think a thing of it. But I still want to follow the rules as best I can if for no other reason than reading rules and saying "nah, I don't feel like it" is kind of a dick move. Can't say as I'll never do it but I intend to avoid it as much as possible.

[ReX]

18 minutes ago, Pokemanic33 said:

Pesky copyright laws keeping me from using Plutonia's waterfall.

 

At the end of the day though, I make vanilla-style WADs so it probably wouldn't be hard to edit standard textures to make what I want.

Assuming that's something that's allowed, of course.

If you're concerned about the copyright issues, you simply ought to look for reasonable alternative textures that have been published for free use. For example, I'm sure there are plenty of good waterfall textures that would serve as adequate substitutes for Plutonia's waterfall.

 

One more reason not to consider requiring Wadsmoosh is that not all players will have all the IWADs/resources you're using.

Edited September 22, 2020 by ReX
Added information

[Zemini]

I have never heard of issues using other textures from wads, esp between ultimate and Doom 2.  Half of the mods outh there and half the stuff from realm667 would be illegal.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Zemini

[M_W]

When it comes to MIDI files of copyrighted music, keep in mind they're technically the property of the copyright holder. If the copyright holders wanted to pursue it, they absolutely could, and they would be one-hundred percent within their right to do so. In practice, this isn't much of an issue, as MIDIs are pretty niche and not seen as as a market replacement (and as an added benefit they don't trigger ContentID), but I think it's valuable to understand this is still technically copyright infringement, at least in the United States.

 

To provide another bit of unsolicited advice, Fair Use does not work like most people think it does, and most importantly, is an affirmative defense, meaning it must be proven in court, and not a moment before.

 

This will probably (hopefully) never become an issue, but I feel like I should do my part and make sure anyone reading this who was unaware will understand what they are doing before they do it.

 

tl;dr Intellectual Property Law is bullshit

[Pokemanic33]

1 hour ago, Zemini said:

I have never heard of issues using other textures from wads, esp between ultimate and Doom 2.  Half of the mods outh there and half the stuff from realm667 would be illegal.

 

It just specifies the /idgames guidelines that WADs with unmodified vanilla content will be rejected. Like I said I doubt anyone would really care if I did and a lot of people probably wouldn't even notice, but if and when I decide to upload to /idgames I want to make sure I'm following the established rules as closely as I can.

 

17 minutes ago, M_W said:

...

tl;dr Intellectual Property Law is bullshit

 

Frankly, the law is the least of my concerns with this. I would be shocked and honestly impressed if a record company went after a MIDI cover of song in 2020, especially when it was just in some random Doom mod. Plus, I can't really bring myself to feel bad about "stealing" content from a record company.

 

I assume /idgame's rules are in some way influenced by copyright law, but I'm more concerned about the rules themselves than what influenced them.

[M_W]

Oh, yeah, don't misunderstand. I feel zero remorse for using a MIDI file in a Doom WAD, and in truth there is a near-zero chance of it ever becoming an issue, but I see a lot of misinformation about copyright, and I figured I'd just nip that in the bud, if not necessarily for you, than for anyone else who might be reading this thread.

[Zemini]

47 minutes ago, Pokemanic33 said:

 

It just specifies the /idgames guidelines that WADs with unmodified vanilla content will be rejected. Like I said I doubt anyone would really care if I did and a lot of people probably wouldn't even notice, but if and when I decide to upload to /idgames I want to make sure I'm following the established rules as closely as I can.

 

 

Frankly, the law is the least of my concerns with this. I would be shocked and honestly impressed if a record company went after a MIDI cover of song in 2020, especially when it was just in some random Doom mod. Plus, I can't really bring myself to feel bad about "stealing" content from a record company.

 

I assume /idgame's rules are in some way influenced by copyright law, but I'm more concerned about the rules themselves than what influenced them.

 

 

Well i already broke the rules.  I guess I could just change a pixel or two and call it my own.  Only issue now is the texture name which isn't protected anyways.

 

But TBH:  Ill never finish my 32 level megawad therefore it will never be submitted. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Zemini