Getting almost no reviews at all... what do I do?

[we're closed]

A few days ago, I submitted a map, which got a lot of reception over a "joke" someone made. Doesn't matter. It got publicity. My newest submission, however, has goten almost no interaction at all. How does doomworld work? What are the ways behind constantly being ignored/failing? How do I get people to interact? Bruh, this isn't even venting, it's a genuine question from an ignorant. Any "tips and tricks"?

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Hey buddy! Is Heresy the map you're talking about? I'll play it and give you a review tonight :)

[we're closed]

22 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Hey buddy! Is Heresy the map you're talking about? I'll play it and give you a review tonight :)

not just that tbh. a lot of my old maps would fail as well :/

 

[P41R47]

5 minutes ago, elio.exe said:

A few days ago, I submitted a map, which got a lot of reception over a "joke" someone made. Doesn't matter. It got publicity. My newest submission, however, has goten almost no interaction at all. How does doomworld work? What are the ways behind constantly being ignored/failing? How do I get people to interact? Bruh, this isn't even venting, it's a genuine question from an ignorant. Any "tips and tricks"?

I downloaded 24 Carat Speed.
Its cool, map 01 even for a speedmap and being your first map ever, its really good.
But a little work on the presentation of the megawad could help a little.
Things like a new TITLEPIC, INTERPIC, maybe using new midis also, help a lot to make it unique.

Backthen, when Doom first appeared, a lot of maps and episodes, even complete megawad were submited without any change at all.
And just a few of them are still played today.

The others are there, but not much people know them.
That was acceptable on the 90's to some degree, but for today, not much.

I will give it more feedback soon.
But for certain, being your first almos full megawad, its really good.
So don't archive it, the worst thing it could happend is that not much people know it.
But for the few that give you feedback will help you improve for your next project.

Think at this, have you played CPD?
Well, not much people played it, but i found it really good, so i give it a spin and helped the author with the presentation.
And now, after i recommend it a lot, more people know it.
This kind of things are matter of real fucking luck sometimes.

You just need a weirdo like me to like it and recommend it hahahah :P

 

But for certain, there are not much people who like to try something that is not recommended or known, even less from a new mapper that its just new to the forums.

I could lend you a hand with the megawad, but it will take times, so don't expect to be done right out of the bat.
PM me if you are interested.

;)
 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Well, I'll start with Heresy :)

 

Don't feel bad if your maps don't get a lot of reviews. Here's some advice I can give you that might help:

 

Give your map a unique name to make it stand out.

Take good screenshots to show off your map as best as you can.

Make a title pic for the map/wad so you can post it with your map.

When posting your map, make your post concise, but descriptive. Avoid typos and make your post look attractive.

 

These are some things that entice me into trying out a map/wad. The more effort someone puts into their post, the more effort I assume they put into mapping.

 

:)

 

@P41R47 gives good advice too

Edited October 7, 2020 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Also, it might be a good idea to observe what time does people post new maps in the most and use it to your advantage.

[P41R47]

Just now, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Also, it might be a good idea to observe what time does people post new maps in the most and use it to your advantage.

Serious questions:
-How that works actually?
Kinda like a uploading a new map when nobody else is doing anything?
And that lead me to what i actually tried to ask hahah

-when is that time?
There are almost new maps everyday from what i have seen...
 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Just now, P41R47 said:

Serious question:
-How does that work actually?

I notice that from 12pm - 2am GMT+0 time, people usually pump out new maps (and post new topics) the most, as that's when Europeans/Americans get more active.

 

 

[Suitepee]

Ping the Doomworld playtesting crew. Find some Twitch Doom streamers and ask them politely. :)

 

These threads might also help:

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/116249-bridgeburners-playtesting-series/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/102835-a-general-list-of-players-willing-to-be-private-playtesters-for-anyone/

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/107254-give-me-your-wads-i-will-play-and-record-them/

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Suitepee

[Clippy]

9 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Also, it might be a good idea to observe what time does people post new maps in the most and use it to your advantage.

 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Just now, Suitepee said:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/102835-a-general-list-of-players-willing-to-be-private-playtesters-for-anyone/

Something worth mentioning that is the list hasn't been updated for a while due to the original poster having little time to keep track of people entering in.

[Emperor S P O O N]

I've had a similar thing happen to my first published map. It was called GLOOM, and for those who played it they seemed to enjoy it. However, no one even bothered to review it on the Idgames archive page. Luckily, a friend of mine from Discord found it entertaining enough to use the map as a testing ground for different mods due to the spacious nature of the map itself. He streams it on the server a lot as well, which somewhat gives it a bit of popularity as well. In any case, the map is, as of right now, left unreviewed. Like P41R47 said, it's mostly up to chance/luck if it ever gets reviewed.

 

Edit: I also asked Suitepee here to playtest it on stream as well. Forgot to mention.

Edited October 7, 2020 by King S P O O N
Forgot to mention something

[P41R47]

1 minute ago, King S P O O N said:

In any case, the map is, as of right now, left unreviewed.

Unfortunatelly most of the wad uploaded after 2017/2018 are left unreviewed as Idgames review function not work anymore and the new download section for reviews is not up to date with the new entries for the mean time.

Also, as a side colourful note, i notice that people tend to give more feedback and review to maps on vanilla, limit removing, and boom format.
Just a few people review zdoom base port only mapsets. And it kinda have to be something really unique, like Happy by Zolgia108.
Correct me if i'm wrong, please.
 

[Bridgeburner56]

Tips and tricks:

• Do what Suitepee suggested. Make use of the services provided by streamers
• Don't rely on DW. Interaction on DW can be random and threads that disappear of the first page get forgotten quickly. Twitter is surprisingly useful for reaching an audience that you wouldn't normally. Get a few prominent Doom people retweeting it and you'll be surprised how far your work can travel.
• Promote your work before you release it. It will be less likely to missed and you might build some hype around it. 
• Don't underestimate the power of discord. Both in terms of sharing your work but also in terms of engaging in communities. Name recognition does matter. Not so much in the sense "oh I know that person makes the best maps" and more in the sense "oh I know who that person is and have seen them hanging around place x". More often than not that'll be the tipping point to for someone to try a wad.
• Don't worry about idgames reviews. By the time your wad is up there you should know if it is good or not. Hell, with things like dropbox, gdrive etc idgames is far less relevant for distribution these days.
• According to your profile you've been a member of DW for a month or so. I'd counsel patience on top of all of the above.

[Noiser]

Hey, your map looks pretty cool! Just the fact you made it limit-removing is a plus for me (as I like to play on crispy doom).
Don't feel bad btw, a lot of lurkers may have played it (and liked it) without leaving a comment.

It may sound weird, but sometimes I just can't leave a comment because my english is not that good and I'm a bit perfectionist with it, meaning it takes more time and effort than normal to do something as simple (that happens with pms as well). But take all my "likes" as a positive enforcement and a way of saying that I really care, despite not being able to comment at that moment (which I will certainly do with enough time).

A tip I can give you is to put more information on the title. "Heresy (A Doom 2 map)" doesn't says much. "Heresy (a limit-removing, hellish map for Doom 2)" may work a bit more and attract a wider audience.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Noiser

[Doomkid]

I'm worried I'll get slapped with the loserhammer if I keep saying this over and over, but Wads and Mods SERIOUSLY needs to be divided up into "Wads In Progress" and "Wad Releases", and users given the ability to move their own threads freely between the two. Things are falling off the front page at a more alarming rate than ever. If no one responds, that can be as little as 3 hours on page 1! (Not to mention, people who don't GAF about wads in development and just want to play new releases must have a hell of a time wading through the numerous WIP threads..)

 

Don't feel disheartened. Remember that there are people willing to play your wad on the various Classic Doom discords, some of which you can find here, they are MP centric but they're still full of Doomers who will give feedback. Also, so long as it runs in GZDoom, people will give at least some feedback over on the ZDoom forums as well.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Doomkid

[Doom-X-Machina]

Doom: Dissension was released on September 1st after 18 months in production. No one here on DoomWorld gave a fuck.

It went nuts on Facebook (has it's own page updated almost daily with WIP screenshots and videos and people salivating over it). I've had people post playthrough videos on the WAD Archive page and Doom Repository groups and Youtube, and a few people have signed up here to mention it for a Cacoward, but here on DoomWorld... crickets. It's pretty much been ignored.

Dissension II: The Hell That Followed is in the works but if people aren't going to at the very least even acknowledge it's existence, fucked if I'm putting another 18 months of work into it.

[BluePineapple72]

34 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I'm worried I'll get slapped with the loserhammer if I keep saying this over and over, but Wads and Mods SERIOUSLY needs to be divided up into "Wads In Progress" and "Wad Releases", and users given the ability to move their own threads freely between the two. Things are falling off the front page at a more alarming rate than ever. If no one responds, that can be as little as 3 hours on page 1! (Not to mention, people who don't GAF about wads in development and just want to play new releases must have a hell of a time wading through the numerous WIP threads..)

 

Don't feel disheartened. Remember that there are people willing to play your wad on the various Classic Doom discords, some of which you can find here, they are MP centric but they're still full of Doomers who will give feedback. Also, so long as it runs in GZDoom, people will give at least some feedback over on the ZDoom forums as well.

I concur. There are too many different types of posts here. Some are mods. Some are WADs. Some are competitions for WADs & Mods! I think it would really help a lot of folks get their projects out there, even if it is only split into released and upcoming.

I'll get my pitchfork and meet you by the courthouse @Doomkid

Edited October 8, 2020 by BluePineapple72

[Scotty]

While not specifically applicable to the OP's wad here, an alternate recommendation is joining whatever community projects look good to you as a good way to ease into things.

 

The Doom community (in my experience) is quite a slow moving beast, so do not worry if you don't immediately receive attention for something you work on.

 

Also remember that people commonly download and play random things they encounter without feeling the need to comment on it - and quite often people just comment to critique - so not having 18562462 replies on a thread doesn't mean people aren't checking it out.

 

Finally, quality and attention are not necessarily proportional so don't judge yourself on that metric, it will just drive you insane if you do. If you are enjoying mapping just keep at it.

[SOSU]

1 hour ago, Noiser said:

A tip I can give you is to put more information on the title. "Heresy (A Doom 2 map)" doesn't says much. "Heresy (a limit-removing, hellish map for Doom 2)" may work a bit more and attract a wider audience.

That ^
I feel like Doomworld has a bit of a reputation as the "The Vanilla, Limit removing and Boom snobs' of the Doom community.

(Evidence: I came here as a GZDoom in UDMF format guy but now i go "Hey guys so this is my new map made for Vanilla tested in Chocolate Doom and Dosbox)
Announcing your maps format is a good way to lure in all us snobs basically :)

[plums]

So here's another answer that might not be helpful, but anyhow: if you are more active in the community, people will be more interested in playing things you make. As much as DoomWorld is a hub for various Classic Doom things, it's also its own space. This isn't a strict recipe for getting better reception, but you can definitely notice it when Jimmy or Doomkid or some other people post new maps or projects; they get tons of interest, far more so than you can attribute to quality of content alone. They are very well known and liked in this community, and so when they post something new there are a lot of people who want to see what they're up to just because of that.

 

Also as has already been said, certain types of projects succeed here more often than others. GZDoom specific maps often don't get a lot of interest, even less if they rely on Brutal Doom. (There are always exceptions of course.)

 

For better or worse, just taking some time to promote your stuff will probably also help. There is just so much content available for Doom already, it would take a lifetime for people to play through everything that's already been made, let alone anything new.

 

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

Wads and Mods SERIOUSLY needs to be divided up into "Wads In Progress" and "Wad Releases", and users given the ability to move their own threads freely between the two.

This would help, as would fixing the current hot mess that is the idgames uploads/DoomWorld file reviews/etc. systems.

Edited October 8, 2020 by plums

[Doomkid]

26 minutes ago, plums said:

This would help, as would fixing the current hot mess that is the idgames uploads/DoomWorld file reviews/etc. systems.

Not to get too offtopic, but I feel a good band-aid fix for this would be getting rid of the "latest votes" bit on the legacy site: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/

 

Those were the latest votes as of early 2017. They just happened to be the last votes cast before the legacy voting was disabled.. but they're front and center. The "latest files" section beneath it is still the main place people should be checking for new wads (in addition to the hypothetical new "wad release" section). It's a shame for it to be at the bottom of the screen, it just doesn't catch the eye there. I know the plan is to depreciate this frontend eventually, but in the mean time..

[Noiser]

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I'm worried I'll get slapped with the loserhammer if I keep saying this over and over, but Wads and Mods SERIOUSLY needs to be divided up into "Wads In Progress" and "Wad Releases", and users given the ability to move their own threads freely between the two.

I strongly agree with that. I would even go further and separate it by compatibility, but any type of division would help to keep new projects on the radar. I wonder how many of them I missed just for not constantly lurk all the time.
 

2 hours ago, SOSU said:

I feel like Doomworld has a bit of a reputation as the "The Vanilla, Limit removing and Boom snobs' of the Doom community.

(Evidence: I came here as a GZDoom in UDMF format guy but now i go "Hey guys so this is my new map made for Vanilla tested in Chocolate Doom and Dosbox)

I don't think this have anything to do with snobbery. People have different tastes, so having more options for everyone will obviously attract more people. Limit-removing maps can be enjoyed on almost every port (including GZDoom), so there will be all kind of players interested on it.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Noiser

[SOSU]

36 minutes ago, Noiser said:

I don't think this have anything to do with snobbery.

I agree with you but i didn't mean that Doomworld is snobby seirously, i just exaggerated a trait of the forums for comedy :)

[RonnieJamesDiner]

I'm not trying to sour the mood here, because it was genuinely heartwarming to see so much awesome advice and encouragement from everyone, and I certainly empathize with how you're feeling elio -- but, after looking at your profile, it feels a little ironic that I can't seem to find a single time you actually commented on anyone else's WADs. Yes, you've only been here for a month, but it's a two-way street.

 

What I mean is... we tend to get back what we give. It's a community. And, starting a thread asking why people hardly ever comment on your work, when it seems you have yet to ever comment on anyone else's, just rubs me wrong. But, maybe I'm being unfairly harsh.

[Zolgia108]

well, i don't know if you remember me, but i actually played the first speed mapset you made and also made a video on youtube, i was giving all possible constructive criticism until i saw that map 5 (and partially 4 if i recall correctly) had a lot of similitudes with oblige maps. So i said it and you answered something like "yes i made those inspired by those programs, but i don't even have them", which is clearly the most absurd answer i received in my whole doomworld life. I then decided to just stop replying and leave other people to judge. Also i second what @RonnieJamesDiner said. Even people like @Bridgeburner56 playtest maps and give advices, we should not be only mappers but players as well, or else what kind of community would this be?

[Phobus]

I have to agree with Doomkid. This site is so busy that a new map thread can drop off of the front page of WADs and Mods within 8 hours easily. On the one hand, it's kind of good, as it means there's a lot going on and tons of stuff being made, but if your thread isn't a major announcement, or already commented on quickly, it'll just disappear.

 

I'd second Bridgeburner's recommendation about using Discord (also other forums and whatnot) just to widen your maps' exposure. 

[Biodegradable]

The more places you submit your maps to, the more likely you'll get people's attention. Don't put all your eggs in one basket and rely on Doomworld's reception alone, Elio. Start also posting your new works simultaneously on the ZDoom Forums, Doom community Discord servers and other places people have named. The more platforms you use, the better the chances.

[Deadwing]

It's a good question for me too tbh lol

I will share my thoughts and experiences, which will probably be a quite large text >.<

 

Anyway, from my previous 3 mapsets experience, I guess the quality and accessibility of your wad plays a large role in how many people will be going to play your stuff. Also, how substantial the content is and how much of "value" it can bring to the community is really important.

 

Quality is easy to define, it's how actually good your work is, as a whole experience package. The better the visuals, more attention it will probably call, and it's easily identifiable for other people's works because you will see a beautiful screenshot and you'll definitely like it. As for your own works, at least for me, it's a lot harder, because something I did will look impressive, unique and nice but might be just normal for others. For me it's a lot harder to differentiate something cool I did to actually being cool. And, of course, there's the gameplay aspect of it, you material needs to play and feel good. If not, people will even start playing your wad, but after a bad experience they will just ignore and not "spread the word" to other players, or they will give a bad review.

 

Accessibility is definitely related to gameplay, but a more accessible mapset targeted to a specific playerbase will definitely call more attention and make the whole thing known. Your map might play good, but for a general audience it might feel too hard or too easy for the hardcore audience. Finding a middle ground is important, and I guess the better the visuals (or the identity of your wad), people will be more willing to play something off their charts. Example: Regular player enjoying a slaughter-map because everything else is so good.

 

Having something with quality and accessible is good, but if it's only a 5 minute short thing, for example, it won't bring a fantastic experience to the player. Fantastic experience needs something substantial. Usually creating a megawad draws more the player attention, because it takes a lot of work to create one, but in other hand even a one-man megawad is a common thing nowadays. I think this year we had like 20 megawads, which is a looot of playtime to spend on, and players will definitely select which one they will want to play. But megawads aren't the only way to create something substantial. Sometimes one large very detailed map is already enough to call people's attention, or sometimes it doesn't even need to be a big one, like Brigandine. Anyway, with the quality output in the last few years, the bar definitely has raised a lot, with incredible stuff such as AA, Eviternity with things like Elementalism and BTSX3 to come, so very nice looking megawads might even past overlooked with the incoming stream of high quality content for the next few years.

 

At last, even if you create something with quality, which is accessible to the public, and it is substantial, it still might get overlook if you material doesn't provide a new value to the community. Things that have already been done in the past or that, at that specific moment, it doesn't bring much new to the table. The most recent highly-praised mapsets always brought something new, be it visually or regarding gameplay aspects.

 

Here's my 3 previous mapsets experiences and my next upcoming project:

 

- Nevasca: It was my last zdoom project and it consisted of an episodic mapset set in a snowy settings. I like it even currently and it featured some "new" weapons and enemies. Since I only frequent this space, being a zdoom project already doesn't call much people's attention (zdoom forums would be a better place), and after I finished the project the reception was close to none. I think I saw one player stream it and it was really cool, because it was the first time I actually saw someone playing any of my level, and the person was quite skilled! He enjoyed the mapset but it wasn't anything great.

 

- Moonblood: I decided to focus on classic Doom gameplay and the development occurred in episodes, and this called attention from more players and they provided FDAs (which I didn't know it was a thing until then lol). This allowed me to refine my work while developing it, but it wasn't until the "final" release that the actually reached a broader audience. I mean, far far from anything like BTSX, but still a lot more than Nevasca. Thinking now, I believe this happened because of the early maps being pretty accessible while still fun to play (bar map 1 I guess). With a broader audience, however, many players with different profiles played the wad and got different reactions: Many got lost because of the non-linearity, Some loved the first half and hated the second punchier half, some loved the second half and hated the first, some hated the whole thing and some just thought it was just another boom megawad in the table. Many lessons learned here, I also got to know more about the community and different playstyles and etc. With a more consistent mapset, the reception would've been a lot better, I guess.

 

- Exomoon: With this I decided to work in a smaller (but still large) mapset and have a more consistent package. The maps would be larger and have a bigger sense of identity. I also decided to use more custom textures and experiment more with custom enemies. The difficulty was also more consistent through the whole thing, so in my mind players wouldn't feel betrayed if things spiced up more later on. Also, before giving an official release, I texted some users to test the whole thing for me, to create a more refined product. Then, I released the mapset, and the reception was something between Moonblood and Nevasca. Some people streamed it and made youtube videos, but it was a lot less than Moonblood. Thinking now, I believe that many people already hated the thing from map 1 due to difficulty lol, because some people started youtubing the wad and gave up after map 2 or 3. Other people gave up because the levels offered little variety between them (which is unfortunate, because I tried hard to go other way). There were custom textures, but also, most of them were just overused textures from the community, and the level of detailing was really low. There were also straight out bad decisions, such as the terrible final boss and the turret orbs. And, of course, lots of player got lost due to the non-linearity. Finally, I think the timing was also bad, because I released it shortly after other megawads and, one of them, Avactor, shared similar theme and it was just better in every sense.

 

- Lesson learned, and now I'm working with my next project, Ozônia. It was initially meant to be a 32 plutonian-esque mapset, with even less detailing than my previous maps (with self-imposed 250 sectors limit per map), but after an even milder reception, I decided to spice up things and try to make it a more interesting project. I added only two new enemies, but hopefully they will add a nice variety to the gameplay. The maps are going to be more difficulty friendly, but already introducing tougher foes from the beginning. I decided to actually work with detailing, which I've been finding quite rewarding, although definitely not on a Valiant or BTSX level, but for myself it has been a really nice learning experience. And I'm trying to explore more with different concepts and theme, E2 will be inspired on that AA map, E1 has a classic plutonian feel but with custom-made textures by the community, which gives a nice and cool looking, and E3 will be on hell, but I'm still working on the theme lol. Maps are going to be smaller, with stronger sense of pacing, and while the non-linearity will be retained, guiding the player to the right direction will be my first priority. At last, I'll ask a lot of users to test the whole thing in multiple stages to get an actual refined product. Will it get better reception? Honestly, from the few metrics I've in my hand, I doubt it, but in other hand, It has been a really good learning experience.

 

I don't have a twitter account and I'm not good enough at English to join discord. But @Bridgeburner56 suggestions were really good and something I should look on. I don't think my material is strong enough for Twitter, but in other hand, why not try it? Maybe I'm just focusing too much with the reception I get from my stuff (and I agree, honestly), but I already love mapping and finding the right balance between creating something you love and other people love isn't a bad thing. If I keep mapping the same thing over and over then I will lose the will to do it haha

 

Sorry for the long reply (and a lot of English typos), but hopefully this will be useful for some mappers that struggle as much as I do.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Deadwing

[Salt-Man Z]

2 hours ago, Deadwing said:

Thinking now, I believe that many people already hated the thing from map 1 due to difficulty lol

 

To be quite honest, that's why I didn't start playing Exomoon until just a few weeks ago. If you have a slow ramp up in difficulty, people may jump ship at the end, true--but you might attract more players to start with, and many (myself included) will tough it out through the more difficult maps just to see the whole WAD through.

 

Moonblood was also picked up by the DWMC, but I don't know whether that was the chicken or the egg, popularity-wise. (Certainly I only knew of it through the Club.)

 

Also, I needed that reminder that Nevasca exists; I need to add that to my to-play list! (It's already on my hard drive, of course, but then so are like 5000 other WADs...)