Doom -1 | Negative One: Beyond the Experiment [Development Thread]

[PinkFlamingo]

@Captain Toenail, I really like the little water splashes and new liquid effects. Very cool!

 

@maxmanium, thanks for the sprite fixes. I have now added you to the credits.

 

I have been making a new credit screen for PrBoom. Dark blue background definitely looks better:

 

This WAD has been edited by 45 different people! Wow.

 

I am currently working on the script that makes the names of all contributors appear on the GZDoom intro video. I will include this in my next update. I will also casually play through some of the maps and continue adding some multiplayer enemies to maps 12 to 20.

Edited July 15, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[Captain Toenail]

Here's 6.49

 

• Did a little bit of work on map33
• Added cheesy skull explosion effects to the BFG

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/8kpo9g89bbk94ml/v6.49.wad.zip/file

Edited July 15, 2021 by Captain Toenail

[Roebloz]

Are we ready for a full release now? Can 6.50 be the final released version (Even though we will rename it to 6.66 just because it sounds cooler) Anyway, I am reserving MAP31 and MAP35.

[NiGHTMARE]

I still want to do a playthrough to catch texture misalignment and other issues. I have the whole of Sunday to myself, so plan to do it then.

Edited July 16, 2021 by NiGHTMARE

[Cacodemon345]

I think it's better to make a final list of changes to be made before the release if there is any.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Cacodemon345

[PinkFlamingo]

A list of things to do:

 

- Map 32 and 33 need to be finished. They should be brought up to par with the rest of the maps (in terms of challenging gameplay, ammo balance and general 'fun' level).

- Some credits need to get sorted out. There are several unknown, uncredited MIDIs for example, I will make a list.

- A readme needs to be written that properly describes this WAD for those that never heard of it.

- Multiplayer monsters should be added to most of the maps and ammo needs to be added to compensate for them (I admit that this is not essential, but it's good to be consistent about something). (Also. For me, this is a fun way to test the maps one more time ;-)
- In general, more testing never hurts to catch small errors.

- New demos need to be made for PrBoom. These can only be done when the maps are truly finished because otherwise, they'll go out of sync like the current ones.

 

There is really no rush to publish this. If it is done by mid-August, that will be cool.

 

I think the best way to handle this is to release a so-called 'release-candidate'. I have seen others do that on these forums. It means that the WAD you released is considered final, but you allow the Doomworld community to play through it and report any unknown bugs or errors for a while. If after a month or so no problems are reported, you can then proceed to upload that version to idgames.

Edited July 16, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[PinkFlamingo]

Reserving Map 33 for an edit done

 

Version 6.50

 

- added credit screen for PrBoom users

- added credits to the intro movie for GZDoom users

- Map 3 tweak: in the outdoor yellow key area, the multiplayer Cyberdemon is now moved to the upper level. He is much more dangerous here and interacts better with the other enemies

- Map 33: made some edits to the start and first room.

     - The flesh monster is now 'animated', its eye stalks move up and down.

     - Removed the windows to the other rooms as they were distracting from the combat in the first room. (maybe they could be made into blinds that open up later in the map?)

     - Made a bit of a slaughterfest. Get the BFG ready. Not sure about the enemies yet.

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/nqdoj8yvzlw5i0n/NEGATIVEONE_v6.50.rar/file

 

Direct attachment on Doomworld: NEGATIVEONE_v6.50.rar

Edited July 16, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[Captain Toenail]

Version 6.51

 

• Map32: Added a car chase segment for the yellow skull key
• Experimental: Added a playpal lump that makes subtle changes to the blue and green colour ranges

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/nbskkdcfb3ik0ww/NEGATIVEONE_v6.51.wad.zip/file

[PinkFlamingo]

13 hours ago, Captain Toenail said:

• Map32: Added a car chase segment for the yellow skull key
• Experimental: Added a playpal lump that makes subtle changes to the blue and green colour ranges

 

The car chase is a great addition. I like it!

 

The palette, I am not a big fan of. I think the main issue is that the lighter blue no longer works well with the bright red.

For example, in Map 01, some of the rooms are partly red, partly blue. The red is very bright and strong, but the blue is now more a pastel color. It just doesn't create the same contrast as the darker "stronger" blue did. I don't seem to have an issue with the green though. It makes the grass look more realistic.

Edited July 17, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[Captain Toenail]

Yeah no problem @PinkFlamingo, I am not particularly attached to the palette it can easily be removed with the next build.

 

Edit: I'd like to reserve map32 again.

 

Edit: Ok I am done. Added some more areas to map32 and removed the custom palette.

 

 

NEGATIVEONE_v6_52.wad.zip

Edited July 17, 2021 by Captain Toenail

[NiGHTMARE]

Here are the maps I've made some minor tweaks to during my playthrough. I plan to continue with MAP14 onwards in the near future, and there are also a few further changes I'd like to make to some of the maps below (e.g. improving clashing flats & textures in MAP12).

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/p8wserdfoeefoaj/NEGATIVEONE_v6.53.rar/file

 

Changelog:

 

- MAP01 (fixed a single texture misalignment, minor detail changes on the yellow key ledge)

- MAP02 (figured various misalignments up until the first door, improved the yellow key door markings)

- MAP03 (adjusted the usage of SUPPORT3 variants in various places, e.g. 16 wide to 32 wide, minor extra detailing around the yellow key)

- MAP04 (fixed misalignments in the rooms immediately south and southwest of the storage area)

- MAP05 (fixed misalignments and incorrect textures in the north eastern room on the first floor)

- MAP08 (fixed misalignments on the computers in the first room & a cut off light flat in the room through the red key door, added a little extra detail to the secret nukage tunnel)

- MAP09 (added some additional detail to the starting tunnel and the room just after that, improved the texturing in the south eastern and north eastern rooms of the warehouse area)

- MAP10 (adjusted the usage of SUPPORT3 variants just south of the dam, fixed the translucent SHAWN3 bleeding into the floor just south east of that)

- MAP11 (adjusted the usage of SUPPORT3 variants in various places, made the SLADWALL corridor in the north west slightly more interesting)

- MAP12 (did some work by and near the red key door)

- MAP13 (fixed misalignments and lighting issues around the front door to the hotel, minor texture change in the locker rooms)

Edited July 18, 2021 by NiGHTMARE

[PinkFlamingo]

@NiGHTMARE, thanks for the tweaks and detailing. The SUPPORT3 variants certainly look better in these cases. Be careful when editing though, I noticed a few new missing/misaligned textures in some of the areas that you edited. Make sure to double-check everything ;-).

 

I agree that MAP 12 could benefit from better flats/textures in some areas.

 

I am going to reserve MAP32 for a few hours.

Edited July 19, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[Captain Toenail]

From the very beginning I have not been very satisfied with Boom's translucent effect. It looks quite ugly and it's not easy to look through. I did some digging and it turns out you can do additive translucency in Boom after all with the obscure TRANMAP lump...

 

I have created a new glass texture with the GIMP. In the middle is the original glass textures we have been using. On the left is the new texture with additive rendering in PRBoom/ZDoom. Unfortunately ZDaemon is the odd-one-out and does not support additive rendering from TRANMAP, which you can see on the right.

 

I am prepared to go through the wad and fix up all the windows so they use the better glass effect, but it would mean having ugly glass panels in ZDaemon. Thoughts on this? It would not effect gameplay in any way.

 

Speaking of ZDaemon, a lot of the textures now render incorrectly in that port. The most glaring one I saw was map18's sky has turned into ashwall.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Captain Toenail

[PinkFlamingo]

Version 6.54

 

NEGATIVEONE_v6.54.rar

 

Numerous little things this time:

Spoiler

 

Map 01 - added monster blocking linedefs to the new ledges near the yellow key so monsters don't step on them

           - removed some unnecessary detail behind the red key door (players will hardly ever look at this door and it had a misaligned texture)

           - tried to make the rocks in the outdoor area align better (near impossible but I believe it is an improvement :-) )

Map 02 - found and fixed a misaligned texture at the blue armor secret

           - improved alignment of brickwork around doors in the outdoor central area

Map 03 - fixed a few misaligned SUPPOR10 textures

           - tried to make the rocks in the outdoor area align better

Map 09 - fixed a missing texture near the first soulsphere secret

           - improved metal textures in central area of warehouse

           - replaced two metal textures with stone textures in the room with the teleporter

Map 10 - improved SUPPOR2 texture in windows of the small nukage room in the east of the map

Map 11 - added a MIDGRATE to the blursphere area as this fits the overall theme better

           - fixed some SUPPOR10 misalignment in the starting area

Map 12 - added rock platforms in the lava room with the two Cyberdemons (This is probably the most frustrating fight of the whole megawad, LOL. I think these new platforms may make it a bit less frustrating as you no longer need to rely on the radiation suit)

Map 32 - increased the area around the Epictyphlosion and PinkFlamingo shrines, so you can run around them (improves flow of the arena)

           - Captain Toenail's shrine now spawns 99 Zombie SS and 1 Archvile at the end. I believe this was how it originally was. I removed the linedefs that were teleporting them to other areas of the map so they are more manageable.

           - In similar fashion, Elio AF and dragon's influence shrines now spawn several imps and dragons.

 

 

Wanted to do more with Map 32 but ran out of time today. I may return to this map tomorrow (but I will reserve it first).

 

@Captain Toenail, I agree that the new glass texture looks better, but I don't think it is really necessary to change it.

I am a bit alarmed by textures not showing up correctly in ZDaemon. Can you give some examples?

Speaking about Map 18's sky texture, I may have found the culprit in the MAPINFO lump:

Under map 18 it says "sky1 RSKY4 0", This should be "sky1 SKY2 0". (RSKY4 does not exist)

 

EDIT: Sky 3 doesn't render correctly in ZDaemon. I believe this one has to do with the texture being 200 pixels high, instead of 128 or 256. I'll try to edit this sky and see if this fixes that problem.

Edited July 19, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[Captain Toenail]

58 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

but I don't think it is really necessary to change it.

I am a bit alarmed by textures not showing up correctly in ZDaemon

 

Hmm well ok. I have an alternate window that might look better in ZDaemon, I can upload an example later.

 

I think we may be ok with ZDaemon textures. Nightmare's grandfather clock appears to be melting in map21. There are horizontal bars on at least one sky texture (sky3 as you mentioned). There was an issue with the 56 unit tall window frame texture but it appears to be fixed in recent builds. The blue/white used in map05/32 looks bad with mouselook - not sure if I could fix that by making it taller?

[wallabra]

2 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

I agree that the new glass texture looks better, but I don't think it is really necessary to change it.

 

I think all improvement should be welcome improvement; a stance that would be more welcoming to people who are considering contribution, and would generally enable better results, all things considered.

 

Unless you're referring to the fact that the change breaks the sky texture? If so, then yes, having a working sky is priority. Although it'd still be a superior outcome if the sky was fixed in the same branch with the window changes.

[PinkFlamingo]

2 hours ago, Captain Toenail said:

The blue/white used in map05/32 looks bad with mouselook - not sure if I could fix that by making it taller?

 

The issues with the sky textures is that each port discussed (GZDoom, ZDaemon, PRBoom) handles them differently and it is very difficult to reach a compromise that looks good in each port.

 

Basically, ZDaemon looks at MAPINFO for the default sky texture, in our case this is SKY1 for episode 1, SKY2 for episode 2 and SKY3 for episode 3. ZDaemon only seems to accept default sky textures that are 128 or 256 pixels tall. Now, If a sky texture is replaced through the Boom-supported sky transfer linedef, it only works in ZDaemon if that texture is taller than the default sky (or in the special case of the default sky being 256, 128 pixels also works fine in certain cases). Since SKY3 is currently 200 pixels tall, it not only shows incorrectly in episode 3 maps, it also renders the sky transfer of MAP32 wrongly (because 128 is smaller than 200). I believe that if we stretch SKY3 to 256 pixels , this will solve the misalignment in MAP32.

 

Now... things get more complicated in PRBoom when you start using tall skies of 256 pixels. GZDoom and ZDaemon handle those different than PRBoom (In PrBoom, a tall sky appears lower in the horizon, compared to GZDoom). You can clearly see this in MAP06, which uses a 256 tall sky. It looks perfect in GZDoom and ZDaemon but in PRBoom, the planet is much lower on the horizon. Now, If you would make the blue sky of Map05/32 taller, it will look worse in PrBoom because the sky will be shifted downwards. I tried this a few months ago.

 

EDIT: One more complication LOL... Because Map06 uses a tall sky (SKY58) I have put SKY58 as default in MAPINFO. This makes the sky render correctly in ZDaemon. However, the same sky at the end of Map05 does not render correctly because in this case the default sky in MAPINFO is SKY1 (128 pixels). If you change the default to SKY58, you somehow mess up the blue sky transfer in the beginning. I don't exactly understand how. I tried to solve this by making the blue sky 256 pixels tall... but guess what... then it no longer looks good in PRBoom.

 

The only way I see to make the skies look all the same in all three ports is to make each of them 128 pixels tall and stop using mouselook.

But, a good compromise is to make SKY3 256 pixels tall and accept that mouselook in ZDaemon will not work for skies that don't tile vertically :-/

 

2 hours ago, Captain Toenail said:

 

Hmm well ok. I have an alternate window that might look better in ZDaemon, I can upload an example later.

 

I think we may be ok with ZDaemon textures.

 

The more I think of it... Since ZDaemon seems to have a lot of random issues with textures that can't be fixed (for example, the UAC logo in Map06 is messed up and there is a weird sky glitch in Map03) we might as well go with your new window textures. They certainly look way better and most people will use GZDoom or PRBoom anyway. We can mention in the readme that there are a few graphic glitches in ZDaemon that don't affect performance. :-)

 

1 hour ago, Gustavo6046 said:

 

I think all improvement should be welcome improvement; a stance that would be more welcoming to people who are considering contribution, and would generally enable better results, all things considered.

 

Ah yes. Of course. I may have worded my response a bit inaccurate. I actually wanted to say that for me - personally - it wasn't necessary that Captain Toenail went through all the trouble to change those windows. But I am slowly changing my mind now. The windows really look much better :-)

Edited July 19, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[Captain Toenail]

Alright reserving the wad for a bit.

 

Edit: Okay... I am done for now. 

 

Changes:

 

• Map05: Holograms and forcefields changed (glass in office building still needs to be changed)
• Map06: Holograms, forcefields and UFO beam changed 
• Map13: Windows changed 
• Map15: Windows changed 
• Map18: Windows and hologram changed
• Map19: Windows changed (these could be improved further)
• Map20: Windows, forcefields, holograms changed. New holograms added to base. Glass added to spaceship.
• Forcefield frame animation sped up from 8 tics to 3.
• Hologram textures darkened
• Credits lump updated.

 

The glass doesn't look too bad in ZDaemon after all, it just looks tinted. The hologram and glass effects are much cooler in PrBoom and ZDoom now ;-)

 

 

 

NEGATIVEONE_v6_55.wad.zip

Edited July 20, 2021 by Captain Toenail

[maxmanium]

Made a couple of very small changes:

 

- Added sprite fixes for items and decorations that weren't replaced (from D2SPFX19.WAD)

- Fixed grammar in GOTCHAINSAW and GOTBFG9000 strings

- Shortened GOTPLASMA string since it cut off in PRBoom-Plus

 

NEGATIVEONE_v6.56.zip

 

FYI: someone should probably comb through each map and check that monster closets and whatnot are hidden on the automap so the powerup doesn't reveal them, and also check for secret linedefs that don't have the show as one-sided tag. With Boom extended automap colors, secrets can be pretty obvious if they're not marked since there's a color option for when ceiling == floor height.

Edited July 20, 2021 by maxmanium

[PinkFlamingo]

I came up with a solution for the sky problems: I made every sky 256 pixels tall by stretching them a bit. This solves all graphical issues in ZDaemon and now you can safely use mouselook in each port without weird cutoffs.

 

The downside is that maps look different whether you play them in GZDoom/ZDaemon or PrBoom but the only really noticeable differences are in Map 10, where the mountains are now very tall, and in Map 05/32 where the horizon is visible at different heights in GZDoom vs. ZDaemon but completely gone in GL/PrBoom. However, it doesn't look too ugly, so I suppose we can go with it. I can always try to improve the Map 10 sky in GIMP or something.

 

NEGATIVEONE_v6.57.rar

[Rapunsel]

this looks like a very nice project

Edited July 20, 2021 by Rapunsel

[CBM]

I can take another look on map 33 and implement any wishes and suggestions

 

I agree that map 33 needs alot more work

[PinkFlamingo]

30 minutes ago, CBM said:

I can take another look on map 33 and implement any wishes and suggestions

 

I agree that map 33 needs alot more work

 

Sure, go ahead. Build what you like and we will expand upon it.

[CBM]

reserving map 33

 

EDIT

 

somebody should do something about map 35

Edited July 20, 2021 by CBM

[PinkFlamingo]

27 minutes ago, CBM said:

somebody should do something about map 35

 

Roebloz has it reserved.

[CBM]

expanded map 33, still not done but here is v6.58

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1c4wycc68qbxjb1/NEGATIVEONE_v6.58.rar?dl=0

[CBM]

new update to map 33

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/svoydgfxu89b9t3/NEGATIVEONE_v6.59.rar?dl=0

 

done, can't think of anything else to add

 

added:

 

"the sun caves" (caves that has a bunch of big round rooms connected with tunnels, one of them has some verticality to it as well)

 

lots of weird detailing and surreal details and geometry (threw in parts from other maps I made that arent in neg one already and generally tried to make it weird)

 

half exposed nuke sewage section inside the sun caves

burn out castle ruins inside the sun caves

fused rest of map with the sun caves

added more monsters as well as monsters that can spawn in to locations inside the sun caves

 

todo:

 

needs more polish.. use lots of wax... but now there is a lot more content to the map

Edited July 21, 2021 by CBM

[PinkFlamingo]

Wow. The map is gigantic. It's 10 times larger than the original. I thought you were just going to add in a bit of extra detail to the existing map.

 

I guess this is my fault for not being specific enough about what kind of changes I was expecting, but I thought you knew that we were in the process of finishing this project in the next couple of weeks. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'expand' in my reply. Bad communication on my part. Sorry for that  :-/

 

The idea of these caves is neat, and it is inspiring, but it is just a bit too big to handle in its current form.

At least, this is my personal opinion. What do the others think?

 

I suggest to downscale the new parts until the map size is no more than about 4 times that of the previous MAP33. This can be achieved by making the tunnels shorter and a bit narrower. Maybe they can be one-way conveyor belts? That could be a neat gimmick. We can keep the general layout and all the ideas (caves, castle ruins, vertical staircase looks cool). Just smaller.

 

 

For those newer people who may not understand why I am reacting like this:

'Negative One' was an experimental community project, started by AtticTelephone, last Summer of 2020. The idea was that anyone could edit the WAD and add whatever they wanted. There was no project leader to guide or judge everything. People just worked together freely in an open way and AtticTelephone let us do whatever we wanted. It was a huge success and lasted until October 2020, when AtticTelephone declared the experiment finished. At this point 35 maps of various quality were made. Most of them were excellent, but some of them were rather unfinished and very hard to play. For example, Map 17 had no health on Ultraviolence making it near impossible to complete. This was a shame because Map 17 has beautiful architecture, yet you could not really enjoy it. In response to this, we decided to continue to work on this project, without the restriction of a deadline. The aim was to polish all the existing maps until they were all of a more consistent quality and you could play through them like you can do with any other regular WAD. Throughout the last year, we have made numerous edits to the maps, including adjusting the monster/ammo/health balance, re-texturing areas, adding a bit of detail where it was lacking and making a few extra rooms to improve the general flow of the maps. In general however, I thought it was important that the maps still resembled the ones from 2020 (the focus of these edits thus lying mostly on improving gameplay and not so much on changing their existing layouts). Negative One was after all declared 'finished'.

AtticTelephone has meanwhile started a sequel to this project, called 'Negative Two', also on this forum.

Now, the reason why I believe CBM's current edit is way too big is because it expands MAP33 with 10 times more content. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that but it kinda goes against the philosophy behind 'polishing' the current maps and making this WAD resemble Negative One from 2020. I think that having a few extra rooms would be OK. We can incorporate a lot of the new architecture into a smaller area, perhaps moving some to the original rooms. The focal point should however be the existing 2020 layout and not an entirely new one.

Edited July 21, 2021 by PinkFlamingo

[Captain Toenail]

We could use some of those new areas for map33 but it needs to be compressed down.

 

I am going to reserve map32 again for a bit.

 

Edit: Done.

 

Changes:

 

Map32

• New red key area
• New park area
• Swapped out WolfSS with Chaingunners
• Changed the cloud effect

 

Misc

• Added GLDefs for new flats (lava, nukage and lights)
• Deleted duplicate patches

NEGATIVEONE_v6_60.wad.zip

Edited July 21, 2021 by Captain Toenail

[PinkFlamingo]

I have a new idea for Map 33. We could separate the first three rooms from each other and connect them by narrow tunnels. Likewise, we can add the new caves in similar fashion. We can make it look like a molecule. For example:

 

 

Of course, it doesn't need to be this molecule or any existing molecule. Lets not make it too big ;-) Each 'atom' could be the size of one of the first three rooms. The others can be scaled down.

 

If no one else does it, I will do this but at the moment I need a bit of a break. Just wanted to throw this idea out there.

Edited July 21, 2021 by PinkFlamingo