OpenRift Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) So, my first DM level. Not my first ever level (that being OFFICE.WAD, might upload it if anyone wants it), but I feel rather proud of it. This took surprisingly less time than the last level I made, which I'm also rather proud of given how it turned out. Every aspect of the map is vanilla compatible; I did all my testing in chocolate and vanilla Doom. The influences of classic id software maps from Doom 1 and 2 are very apparent. I think the best way I can describe the design influences is an amalgamation of E1M1, E1M2, E1M3, MAP01, American McGee's idmap01.wad, and also that part in Sgt. Mark IV's Extermination Day with the catwalks over toxic sludge (or maybe I'm remembering that wrong idk). Some influences can be much more subtle than others. The flow of the map is brought to it's full potential once you figure out the secret areas throughout the map, so there is a slight, albeit easy learning curve. ...also I included Lee Jackson's Goin' Down the Fast Way from Rise of the Triad because I had that on loop the whole time I was making this. DOWNLOAD NOW! REFINERY.zip Includes: REFINERY.WAD REFINERY.DEH, an optional dehacked patch for the automap level name that took like 2 minutes in WhackEd to make Oh yeah, here's some levelshots, I guess. Edited October 10, 2020 by OpenRift 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
Zillah Posted October 10, 2020 Plenty of odd secrets and a nice 90s layout. Cool.... 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted October 10, 2020 This is some classic DM turf right here, would fit right in with the better half of the Dwango series. I do have some suggestions that I think might help the flow and replayability of this map: Jumping out of these windows would be a huge help for flow. I know the outdoor area is meant to be a soft secret, but the exit that leads there is obvious (which is a good thing) so I don't think it would be too big a deal to let players jump out - if anything, I think combat will benefit from that change. I also notice there's a blue armor, berzerk and 2 medkits right by eachother out here. I think the berzerk should be moved, to make this less stark of a concentrated control point. This is just too much of a heaping helping of goodies in one dose. Maybe the berzerk would enjoy a new home in the dark TEK room pictured below: I feel like this TEK room is a bit underrepresented in terms of usefulness, despite looking cool and feeling nice to move through - maybe putting the berzerk behind the pile of barrels here (or that was here til I shot them) would be a decent way to make this room more of a hotspot for players to nab health from? It would take the spotlight off of the outdoor BrownGrn area just a bit, which would be nice. Another change in this BrownGrn area that would work wonders would be a teleport out, maybe where the berzerk currently is. This is effectively a dead end despite being wide open, and only having that one small door on the other end of the outdoor area as an escape is quite frustrating. A teleporter here that led to, say, the middle of the bright TEK room would be awesome for flow's sake. Or heck, maybe even just a hall of some sort leading back into the map. After all, the greatest change Dwango5 Map01 made to Entryway was opening the outdoor area so that it looped back around to the front. I'd love to see the same idea applied here. Personally, I think this soulsphere door should be changed to use an actual door texture. It's good to have a soulsphere on this end of the map to counteract the blue armor at the other end, serving as another cool control point, but I think it being more obvious would result in a map that reads better to the average player. In the heat of a DM secret hunting is really hard, so ones that could be so easily missed should, imo, be used very sparingly, and this is one that I think should be "handed out for free" so to speak for the sake of balance. Following from my last point, I feel like this secret should be just a touch more obvious since it's so crucial to getting a leg up on the opposition while playing here. Changing it from startan 3 to the variant that fades from tan to silver or any of the other variants would be an easy way to make this secret more plausible to come across casually and would help to push this map less into "fun, but memey gameplay" (which, to be fair, is fun in it's own right) and more into legitimate competition territory. This is just a personal thing, but I feel like -20 floors in DM are just too mean, even as punishment for trying to nab the BFG. I'm glad there are lifts to get you out of the slime, but I think adding support3 texture barriers to the part that actually acts as a lift would help to be a stronger, much needed hint that it can be used to salvage yourself. This point is not a big deal, but the sky being so low in this room looks kind of odd with a window into another room with a higher ceiling. If you rose the sky height by even 64 pixels, it would help to make this oddness a lot less obvious. I think these little changes would go a long way for making this map feel more fair and less frustrating for players, which in turn will make them want to revisit it more. What we have here is a great map at it's core that with a few small tweaks would be viable for casual and competitive play alike. Fun stuff, and I love that it runs in DosBox. Keep it up, so glad to see new vanilla turf! 6 Quote Share this post Link to post
OpenRift Posted October 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Doomkid said: This is some classic DM turf right here, would fit right in with the better half of the Dwango series. I do have some suggestions that I think might help the flow and replayability of this map: Jumping out of these windows would be a huge help for flow. I know the outdoor area is meant to be a soft secret, but the exit that leads there is obvious (which is a good thing) so I don't think it would be too big a deal to let players jump out - if anything, I think combat will benefit from that change. I also notice there's a blue armor, berzerk and 2 medkits right by eachother out here. I think the berzerk should be moved, to make this less stark of a concentrated control point. This is just too much of a heaping helping of goodies in one dose. Maybe the berzerk would enjoy a new home in the dark TEK room pictured below: I feel like this TEK room is a bit underrepresented in terms of usefulness, despite looking cool and feeling nice to move through - maybe putting the berzerk behind the pile of barrels here (or that was here til I shot them) would be a decent way to make this room more of a hotspot for players to nab health from? It would take the spotlight off of the outdoor BrownGrn area just a bit, which would be nice. Another change in this BrownGrn area that would work wonders would be a teleport out, maybe where the berzerk currently is. This is effectively a dead end despite being wide open, and only having that one small door on the other end of the outdoor area as an escape is quite frustrating. A teleporter here that led to, say, the middle of the bright TEK room would be awesome for flow's sake. Or heck, maybe even just a hall of some sort leading back into the map. After all, the greatest change Dwango5 Map01 made to Entryway was opening the outdoor area so that it looped back around to the front. I'd love to see the same idea applied here. Personally, I think this soulsphere door should be changed to use an actual door texture. It's good to have a soulsphere on this end of the map to counteract the blue armor at the other end, serving as another cool control point, but I think it being more obvious would result in a map that reads better to the average player. In the heat of a DM secret hunting is really hard, so ones that could be so easily missed should, imo, be used very sparingly, and this is one that I think should be "handed out for free" so to speak for the sake of balance. Following from my last point, I feel like this secret should be just a touch more obvious since it's so crucial to getting a leg up on the opposition while playing here. Changing it from startan 3 to the variant that fades from tan to silver or any of the other variants would be an easy way to make this secret more plausible to come across casually and would help to push this map less into "fun, but memey gameplay" (which, to be fair, is fun in it's own right) and more into legitimate competition territory. This is just a personal thing, but I feel like -20 floors in DM are just too mean, even as punishment for trying to nab the BFG. I'm glad there are lifts to get you out of the slime, but I think adding support3 texture barriers to the part that actually acts as a lift would help to be a stronger, much needed hint that it can be used to salvage yourself. This point is not a big deal, but the sky being so low in this room looks kind of odd with a window into another room with a higher ceiling. If you rose the sky height by even 64 pixels, it would help to make this oddness a lot less obvious. I think these little changes would go a long way for making this map feel more fair and less frustrating for players, which in turn will make them want to revisit it more. What we have here is a great map at it's core that with a few small tweaks would be viable for casual and competitive play alike. Fun stuff, and I love that it runs in DosBox. Keep it up, so glad to see new vanilla turf! These are good criticisms, I do wish I'd gotten more of that when I was playtesting with @NationwideMoose and @DCG Retrowave. I think this map was always more oriented toward casual play, because I kinda wanted to give it a fun-but-cruel 90s jankiness to it(as an excuse for my limited mapping skills). Who knows, maybe I'll make a version 2.0 when I make a DM megawad. ;) 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
Zillah Posted October 11, 2020 One good rule to have for all DM maps is every (or nearly every) room has to have at least 2 entrances/exits (1 entrance and 1 exit). It keeps the flow of the map going and allows no player to ever be cornered. Forcing a player to be cornered in combat makes for an already unfair and un-fun fight. However, I liked this map without it, but because of its "fun-but-cruel 90s jankiness". Ngl, I have a BIG soft spot for 90s mapping, but you can still have a 90s dwango-esque map with a flowing roman arena. If you decide to make a megawad, best to keep it in mind :) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
LacedCase Posted October 25, 2020 I like the secrets and the old-school feel. I got my butt handed to me every time I spawned near the chainsaw though :( got rekt by bots with SSG. I like the idea that you have to know where the doors and switches are tho!!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
OpenRift Posted October 26, 2020 16 hours ago, LacedCase said: I like the secrets and the old-school feel. I got my butt handed to me every time I spawned near the chainsaw though :( got rekt by bots with SSG. I like the idea that you have to know where the doors and switches are tho!!! Yeah the chainsaw and berzerk spawns are designed to piss people off ;) 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
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