Lunar Outpost 359: WiP Wad (Updated: 2/13/2021 Revamped older levels)

[mxrgan]

16 minutes ago, Kyukon said:

Map01 has been completely redone! 

 

I tried to keep it in the spirit of the original as my first completed map, but this time it's much more action-packed and without CONS1_1 spamming.

 

For now, that's the only one I think I'll completely redo, and I've decided to move forward with the creation of Map08 and more.

RIP Old MAP01 :(

[Clippy]

 

[Kyukon]

@Clippy Thanks for checking it out!

 

A few tidbits;

-The Shotgun in the first room was originally intended to be obtained with the switch, but that felt too slow, so honestly, that switch can probably just go. 

-I kind of want each level to be somewhat speed run friendly, and got my speedrun down to 32 seconds, with plenty of errors.

-I might put yellow light textures bordering the secret switch, and change the posts around the teleporter to match.  This might make it a little too obvious, but I want it to be intuitive, like the blue walls I fixed after Hak's playthrough.  Thankfully small stuff like this is easy to edit as I start to work on the next batch of maps. 

 

The main post has been updated, and there's a couple of level names for future levels in the spoiler tag section, as well as descriptions for existing levels.

 

Thank you again, Clippy

[Clippy]

No problem buddy sorry I died so much I'm curious about trying that speedrun now haha

 

And I think the secret is fine the way it is to be honest I did find it after a while 🙂

 

I think I mentioned wouldn't it be cool if there was an armor secret outside and it's pretty cool you implemented that I actually really enjoy that secret a lot and how many monsters are in the secret it's very interesting

 

I'm all about those secrets eh

[Clippy]

I felt compelled to play the new map 1 again since I had such a rough first attempt

 

I only did a few tries for fun would you believe this was my best one haha

 

This is a brutal little map I like it a lot!

 

 

PS that revenant fist fight worked out well on every other run LOL good times

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Clippy
theres blood everywhere

[Kyukon]

Haha, nice clutch!  Also thanks for giving it another go.

Map08 is functionally done now, but I've still got a ways to go on detailing, and a little bit of item pickup balance before it's ready to show off.  I also found out a funny little quirk with how raising floors works.  Apparently, when you have a remote switch to raise a floor to the closest sector and also tell it to change texture and effects, it will take the texture from the floor you are standing on, not the floor it's using as a reference to raise to, which is kind of interesting.

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/814579191

 

My playthrough starts at around 25:05.

[Kyukon]

18 hours ago, Suitepee said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/814579191

 

My playthrough starts at around 25:05.

Thanks for checking it out on stream!
Glad you could have a chill playthrough of it.

And, to respond to your question, Yeah, I planted quite a bit of little easter eggs like that!

Spoiler

Map01 - References TNT04's little teleporter rooms
Map01 - References TNT01's false exit
Map02 - Memento Mori sky in the opening room
Map02 - The lowering box on W1 trigger from one side referencing E2M2 
Map03 - Stuck shotgunner
Map03 - Crusher elevator to go with the platforming
Map07 - The Light arrow pointing to the optional yellow area was a reference to the Waste Tunnel's arrow pointing to its optional corridor
Map07 - Ending room reference to Tower of Babel

 

That unpegged door on 04 though, yeah that'll get fixed, lol.  Glad you had an easy time with the clearer version of this level, the progression used to be a little too obscure.
Map07 originally had 1 Cyberdemon, but he felt too easy, so I made it 3, and that seemed to be just annoying, so I bumped it back down to 1 Cyber and 2 Barons in that exit room, instead.
 

And, as a follow-up, of the guys I got to try this out, 4 of them encouraged me to continue this, and 1 of em started playing more wads.  He's gone through Scythe and just started Eviternity.

 

Thanks again!

[Kyukon]

I'm happy to say Map08 has been added to the wad, and the original post has been updated, with descriptions, notes, and rough ideas of difficulty.  The difficulty levels are mostly self-contained to this wad, rather than comparing to other map sets.

Quick link here to the new wad file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofm70598xcc3v49/LunarOutpost359v8.wad?dl=0

Map09 is also currently being worked on, with a current plan up to Map11.  Once those have been completed, I'll see where to go from there.

[Clippy]

 

[Kyukon]

Clippy,

Ah man, thanks for playing.  Absolute 10/10 video thumbnail.

 

Spoiler

The easiest critical path for a pistol start of this map is grabbing a rad suit, and rushing straight to the rocket launcher with a chaingun to mow down the lower tier monsters, and ignore the mancubus.  However, it is intentional to be able to beat the map without setting foot in the rocket launcher wing.  I like making optional areas that are intended to gear you up better for the final showdown as a form of non-linear progression.

While TnT is one source of inspiration for this wad, the design philosophy of the original Scythe is also in my mind as I try to make it so that levels are bearable to speedrun in succession, with a rather low kill percentage, while still having some fun set pieces to look at.  The texture work is still a bit crude at times, and it's funny you point out the nukage ledges too, haha.  I spent time in the rocket launcher wing to make sure it would show poison textures on the wall while the floor was toxic, and then get covered up when the water had risen and it was safe.  In the room behind the yellow doors, it was also made so that the poison textures would get covered up too, so a little bit of an oversight that the nukage is still on the ledge. 

 

But let's just say, it's the 0.01 % of germs instead, and call it a feature.

 

So, to answer your question more directly, yeah it's intended to be able to skip stuff.  It makes some stuff harder, but I made sure it's not impossible.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Kyukon

[Kyukon]

Map09 is completed and added to the wad!  It's one of the largest maps I've made so far, with the second-largest monster count, next to Map07.  Balance went through quite a lot of iterations, as I wanted to find a nice medium that was challenging without being too grindy.  Small description and details added to the main post.

 

Hope you have fun finding out what happened to The Damaged Cruiser!

 

Quick DL Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mruyzchjsxuj830/LunarOutpost359v9.wad?dl=0

Edited January 6, 2021 by Kyukon

[Clippy]

 

[Kyukon]

Thanks for checking it out so far, also as amusing as it is to hear everyone pronounce it differently, I should probably spare you from guessing on how to say my display name.  Might be best to think of it as "Q-con".  That was some pretty slick strafing against those imps and knights though.

[Clippy]

It's a pretty interesting map so far sorry I couldn't do it all on one sitting

 

I'm really bad at pronouncing names to begin with so thanks for the heads up haha

 

Yeah I got pretty lucky in a few places and I'm spending a lot of time near death in this first attempt of mine here

 

I still don't know what happened with the hell knight at the bottom of the stairs that just instantaneously changed positions. I never experienced anything like that before

Edited January 6, 2021 by Clippy
Here's the thing I don't know how to type

[Kyukon]

No worries.

 

And, that warping hell knight happened because I could do a better job at making my line-defs more strategic.  I wanted to test having a lower floor that gave the illusion of being underneath another floor, so naturally, there are some silent teleporting lines in the stair section to an identical stairway.  I made a few extra so it wouldn't end up in an awkward situation where you could walk up a stair and back down, and wouldn't see the lower floor anymore.  That led to making sure the monsters could teleport using the lines so they didn't get stuck in the dummy staircase, so that's why the Hell Knight was behaving strangely. 

 

I probably should just block monsters in the stairs to make it more seamless.

[Salmon]

I finally caught up with these again.  I'm still really enjoying them!  Here's my thoughts on the 3 newer ones:

 

New Map01:  Honestly, I played this back in November and forgot to comment, so my memory is hazy.  I liked old map one but this is a nice replacement.  I know I had to look at the automap to figure out the teleporters but I don't think that's bad.  It's more difficult now but it's not out of place for an opener.  I didn't test how the transition to map 02 feels now--my only concern, based on memory, is that it might make 02 feel too easy?

 

Map 08:  A really nice map to follow map 07--that's good attention to pacing.  After a hectic map like 07, doing a fairly chill facility crawl is a pleasant change.  I really appreciated the looping nature of the map and all the convenience features you added--turning the nukage to water and stuff to allow for easy exploration.  It's really nice attention to detail.  That trap with the single rocket that drops you down to a revenant is hilarious, btw.  Also, I think you should texture the back side of the slimefalls in the final room, since you can go behind them.

 

Map 09:  Really liked this one, it was full of surprises for me--that nice wall reveal that opens up the western outside area, the cyberdemon and the barons, and that final fight was both enjoyable and not at all what I was expecting.  I also quite liked the opening--the platforming and movement feel pretty good and there's just enough enemies to put you under pressure.  Other thoughts:

 

I think you should put some monsters on ambush in sector 376 (stairs to the left of where you enter the central building.)

 

The red key needs an ambush, I think, even if you just warp some more enemies into the crate room after you grab the key.  Alternatively, maybe you could have the two archviles teleport into the crate room after you get the red key?  I dunno, I think it needs something, though.

[Kyukon]

Thanks for the feedback Salmon!  I do plan on some kind of final release version where I sort out compatibility after maps are all created, so comments on progression are appreciated.

 

And, I'll keep those ideas in mind for a full pass at Map09 that I'll probably do after I see a few more runs, as I get to work on Map10.  I've got plans through 12 now, but unlike this one, I sketched those out on paper first, so they might go a little quicker.  Map07 was the first one I tried sketching out, and that seemed to be pretty well received so here's hoping!

[Clippy]

Alright I had enough time to  finish the map, faster than expected

 

Somehow I did better in this part than the last part. I really liked this map and the way it was put together, good stuff I'll always try to play em. So yeah either I did better or the first half is harder? 

 

If it's not too annoying I may do a part 3 cleanup edition to see if I can find the secrets/monsters I missed, I think I know where one is for sure. I'll PM you that one or if you're a fan of my low rent youtube channel you'll see it but I'm curious to explore this some more - I like your item placement especially - always gives me rewards for looking around

 

Here is the video sorry I wasn't able to keep it to one part

 

 

PS that box of bullets near that lift was so annoying lol - will have to try again to grab em - you make me work for my stuff!

[Kyukon]

Thanks for the uploads, and it's not annoying.  Honestly, you're too good to me, haha.  Good lessons to be learned from this for design, though.  I never thought I'd see an escape from the Western room's ambush to the northern room, guess I'll have to give that Mancubus a brother like the ones that guard the southern passage out of that area.  That way I shouldn't have to block monsters from that little nook, and it creates a little more excitement/urgency.

 

Your video also made me realize how awkward it looks leaving the ash textures where the walls raise.  I left them there on purpose to sort of signify it was a new path that had opened up to the starting room, but now I'm not so sure.  (The walls you look at from 4:24 to 4:30 in Part 3)  I might keep them there however just because I tend to avoid wall hump secrets without some kind of surrounding geometry to back them up somehow.

 

 

[Kyukon]

Map 10 is here, Meltdown! 

 

This one will be the conclusion to the first episode of the wad and the largest monster count for a little while here.    Some minor balancing adjustments were made to previous levels in this version.  As always, a small description and details were added to the main post.  Current ideas floating around for the future involve mines, some lava caverns, a broken highway, and more.  I'm trying to learn at least one new trick with each map, so it's a slow process, but feels like it's paying off.  Thanks for continuing to play, and hope you enjoy it!

 

Quick DL Link here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nv7basmk8usuk01/LunarOutpost359v10.wad?dl=0

[Clippy]

 

[Kyukon]

Thanks for getting around to it!  There are a couple of strange interactions that happen due to how the level can be tackled from a few different angles.  That yellow door only opens once from the south side, but there's a switch on the opposite side of the little nukage pool to open it permanently.  And, you got it, the blue door is entirely skippable with the use of the secret.

 

It's fun that you help me figure out more about encounter design.  I tend to design and balance encounters around how it plays when the player is trying to advance and didn't think you'd have room to retreat from the pinky trap, with those revenants guarding too lol.  I don't want to be cheap and just lock players in with geometry all the time, so it really helps to see stuff like that.  Thanks again!

[Kyukon]

After receiving another round of feedback, I've decided to take the time to go back and polish up the first several levels of this wad.  It feels like a good time to do so after getting through level 10.  It's still ongoing, but I've got a couple of points to share:

1. I don't think I'll be converting this to Boom compatibility or to UDMF, at least any time soon, after looking into those options.  It doesn't look the way I want it to in the Boom copy I re-textured, and UDMF is a bit too much of a stretch to redo 10 levels with.  (If anyone has any advice on compatibility, I am open to listening, as it's an area I still need more knowledge of.)

 

2. Map02 is mostly undergoing texture alignment, with some more detailing added in.  I've also decided to remove 2 of the 3 Hell Knights from the red key room initially, and have them come in as an ambush after you grab it, to make this less of a slog.

 

3. Map03 is getting a new area, that will get you armed with a non-secret super shotgun.  It's also getting one rather nasty Arch-Vile because I thought it was a crime that this map used the track, Message for the Arch-Vile without having the titular baddy.  Again, Textures are being fixed to look more appealing, with more attention on alignment this time around.  The Exit Door will also be made double-wide to give the enemies more space to come out.

 

4. Map05 is getting a bit of a rehaul, texture-wise, as well as the lost soul hallway, is getting a bit of a rework into something with more space.

 

5. On Map06, I finally found a way to make the glass mid textures disappear after grabbing the red key!  I was pretty happy about this one, and it involves some geometry tricks.  The result also gave me ideas for the future, seeing as you can actually watch the glass (Or any mid texture) go up.  Which, as far as I know outside of this geometry trick, mid textures are usually removed with scripts.  This idea is kind of an expansion of what was done in Plutonia's Cyberden, involving a few extra steps.

 

6. Map08 will be getting a new secret involving water, as well as a rebalancing of the room behind the yellow door, to have a little less infighting.

 

7. Map09 will have a few 64 wide doorways increased to 128 wide to reduce amounts of Door Combat, and the Mancubus now walk all the way over, instead of having a monster block line.  It should take them a while to join the fight, but they won't be awkwardly blocked anymore.

 

8. Map10 needs a fair amount of texture work done on it, otherwise, I'm happy with the gameplay of it.

 

I'd like to continue to improve this wad, and as such, any feedback is appreciated, even if only in text form!  Thanks again to all who have checked this out!

Edited February 17, 2021 by Kyukon

[Kyukon]

The above changes have been added to the updated wad file, as I polish off these 10 levels, in an attempt to bring them closer to each other in terms of quality.

 

I also have come to the conclusion that it may be a good idea to consider concluding this project after fine-tuning the level design details.  I didn't understand much about formatting when I started mapping for this, and now I understand that it's better to make maps for either Boom or UDMF formats, rather than GZDoom in Doom 2 format like this wad has been.

 

Still, thanks to all who have tried this out, and all who have helped me learn more about mapping.  I originally only ever thought a few close friends would see this, and never imagined I'd get over a dozen people to play, or over a hundred people watch those people play this first attempt at making something competent.  I'd like to take that experience and move forward with bigger things, thanks to inspirations around this forum who have shown the amazing things you can do with Doom.

[mxrgan]

On 2/17/2021 at 12:11 PM, Kyukon said:

The above changes have been added to the updated wad file, as I polish off these 10 levels, in an attempt to bring them closer to each other in terms of quality.

 

I also have come to the conclusion that it may be a good idea to consider concluding this project after fine-tuning the level design details.  I didn't understand much about formatting when I started mapping for this, and now I understand that it's better to make maps for either Boom or UDMF formats, rather than GZDoom in Doom 2 format like this wad has been.

 

Still, thanks to all who have tried this out, and all who have helped me learn more about mapping.  I originally only ever thought a few close friends would see this, and never imagined I'd get over a dozen people to play, or over a hundred people watch those people play this first attempt at making something competent.  I'd like to take that experience and move forward with bigger things, thanks to inspirations around this forum who have shown the amazing things you can do with Doom.

Glad to experience your wad! :)  I havent really made any content on this outside of a single video but I really enjoyed it and I hope to see what you can do in the future.

[dei_eldren]

i remember playing an earlier version of this WAD some months ago and deciding it was too difficult on HNTR, haha!  But if i liked the levels then, i really like them now, and also feel that HNTR is really well implemented - just played through levels 1 and 2 (to be honest, i should probably move up to HMP already but i feel comfortable at HNTR...)  Great layouts, great ideas for tricks and traps, and great gameplay, with great architecture.  Has completely unique classic feel to it.  And definetely the maps have improved since that earlier version (think i struggled through four or five levels then) - they were good, but lacked maybe the uniqueness that they have now.  Much more complex and more ideas in them.

 

Edit: Science Labs was creepy as fuck!  Really love this set.

Edited February 20, 2021 by dei_eldren