Do you feel the Doom Eternal community is becoming toxic?

[HQDefault]

(I haven't experienced this on Doomworld, more just on casual social media, so you guys are fine.)

 

I feel like there's a certain group of people surrounding Doom Eternal these days that have gotten insufferably smug. Like they have this awful gatekeeping mentality where they lash out at anyone for saying that something is hard or even disliking one or two things. It's kind of made me not want to talk about the game as much because people's opinions on Eternal seem to be so much more visceral than with other games. Again, this isn't everybody, but it's enough that it's become noticeable.

[TenenteZashu]

honestly I've noticed a ''Oh this person doesn't like an aspect of Doom Eternal, that means they don't understand how the game's supposed to work'' kind of mentality, especially on r/Doom and with a ''big fish'' of the nu-doom community regarding the Marauder (if you know you know)

Edited November 1, 2020 by TenenteZashu

[snapshot]

supposedly it's one of those h1rdc0re type of games so I guess it was only a matter of time before it attracts that dark souls type of community. I haven't been really keeping up with this game though so I'm not sure.

Edited November 1, 2020 by sluggard

[Biodegradable]

I'm not really immersed in the nuDoom side of the community, so I really wouldn't know. However, elitists exist wherever a community thrives around a thing be it a game, a music genre, a movie franchise, etc so it doesn't really surprise me that you'd smell their stink when they show up. They only gain influence if you encourage their behaviour and take them seriously. Instead, point and laugh at them for being insufferable assholes for trying to apply rules to how one should enjoy a thing, then tell 'em to get bent and resume having fun with the thing the way you want to.

[seed]

Don't care for what the people on social media are for this game, but based on what you're describing, it sounds like par the course for harder games these days.

 

They attract a certain kind of playerbase, sadly, full of wannabe elitists who try push everyone away while they keep "what was made for them", as if such a thing were to exist. Stay away from these places, nothing good can come out from them.

[NoXion]

Most of my experience with the rest of the nuDoom community outside of this forum has been really nice. I follow YouTubers like Allstin, UnderTheMayo and RipNtearGaming and they don't strike me as being toxic at all, which I think is largely reflected in their comment sections.

I don't really follow any accounts on Twitter that specifically deal with nuDoom (except the official ones) and I don't use Facebook any more, so what's left?

[Cruduxy Pegg]

There are always the super annoying people who act like everything is easy because it is "possible in theory" or they've been playing for 30+ years. What? Can't do nightmare blindfolded? are you even trying?!

[MattFright]

I do feel that a lot too, yeah. I feel like it's a combination of several possible causes, such as a lot of divisive receptions of Eternal (no matter how much you love or dislike Eternal, D2016 and Eternal seem to have completely different goals as Doom reboots, dividing the fans of either game quite a bit), a lot of this ridiculing attitude that has grown over the past half decade regarding difficult games, and honestly, just a lot of younger kids being really loud and immature as a result of them being the majority within the nudoom community. This shit sucks honestly, and i'm not quite sure i see any signs of this kind of thing ceasing to occur anytime soon.

[Martin-CAI]

Mmh. I wouldn't say that it's a matter of age. The thing is that new Doom games brought with them discussions about "what Doom actually is". It has no final answer, but these kinds of topics where we debate about the identity of something makes certain people too acid, which makes quite easy to see extremists (lovers of eveything related to new Doom games VS old school doomers that are extremely reluctant to new things).

Edited November 1, 2020 by Martin-CAI

[seed]

1 hour ago, MattFright said:

a lot of this ridiculing attitude that has grown over the past half decade regarding difficult games, and honestly, just a lot of younger kids being really loud and immature as a result of them being the majority within the nudoom community. This shit sucks honestly, and i'm not quite sure i see any signs of this kind of thing ceasing to occur anytime soon.

 

It won't unfortunately, as these kids will grow into toxic adults who will be several orders or magnitude worse than they currently are.

[The_SloVinator]

8 hours ago, HQDefault said:

Like they have this awful gatekeeping mentality where they lash out at anyone for saying that something is hard or even disliking one or two things.

Unfortunately, a lot of gamers nowadays are like this & I feel like these new expansions for Doom Eternal are being only made for specific hardcore fans that love the adrenaline challenge or find main game easy on Nightmare. The fact that Id introduced the spirit mechanics that make enemies more bullet-spongy, doesn't exactly sound fun to me. But expressing that would only lead to toxic/immature replies. Not here but on reddit or Bethesda forums etc...

 

When COD games were massively popular back in the day, old-school fans would trash talk the new gamers & call them casuals for playing COD since the series was known to hold your hands blatantly & how COD ruined FPS for making them too easy. Now, that we have Doom Eternal & possibly other hard games (Souls games), these old-school fans finally have that 'See, THIS is how FPS/in-general games should be. If you think it's hard, git gud casual scum'.

 

That's just my theory.

 

It's 2020 & people still can't respect each other's tastes & opinions. What can you do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited November 1, 2020 by The_SloVinator

[Sunnyfruit]

Reminds me of the Sonic Mania elitists who are nowhere to be found in the high score table (seriously, you just cut in those like butter). Or the digital art community (omg cover album is heavily referenced, that's a crime!).

Watching a pro-player on Youtube doesn't make you anything. Ghostplaying isn't a thing.

I used to think it's all about age, but hey, /v/... I think we used to think it was the case because our parents didn't care that much about videogame culture, but people don't change.

 

Actually good people are usually humble because they had to put down their pride and use tricks and "cheating tactics" to get good. Like a guy who's good at platformers because he abused save states as a kid instead of watching game over screens.

[Biodegradable]

22 minutes ago, The_SloVinator said:

When COD games were massively popular back in the day

 

Good lord, this line makes my bones feel dusty haha ;^P

[Cruduxy Pegg]

COD is still massively popular nowadays. And it has one of the most elitist and toxic communities you can ever find. Nothing to do with a game catering to hardcore gameplay.

[Mr. Freeze]

Mortal Kombat also has a ridiculously toxic community, and that's the easiest fighting game on the market to get into. 

[Doomkid]

Are people just lashing out more in gaming communities because they have nowhere else to expunge all this rage that they build up throughout everyday life? Shit talking has always been a part of multiplayer gaming/game communities but I swear it's getting meaner and more personal the more time goes on. It's shitty, but maybe I'm just noticing it more after hearing stories about people getting SWATted (a horrible thing that should be a felony crime) for saying some unpopular opinion about a damn video game. It's bonkers.

[Job]

Wow, TIL SWATting is a thing. Maybe it's an overreaction, but between that, doxxing, KYS, etc, I think the internet has gotten increasingly toxic. There's just too many internet tough guys out there. Which makes me appreciate well-moderated islands of sanity like DW. 

[DNSKILL5]

Why is everything considered to be toxic these days? Your butthole is toxic. Get over it, it’s nature. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Gerolf

[NoXion]

2 minutes ago, Gerolf said:

Why is everything considered to be toxic these days? Your butthole is toxic. Get over it, it’s nature. 

It's just the phrase du jour for behaviours that are shitty. Sure it's natural that some people are going to be shitty, but just because something is natural, doesn't mean it's something that should just be ignored or brushed off. This forum certainly doesn't just let shitty people get away with doing shitty things.

[whatup876]

I feel like new Doom fans are more "consumer heavy" or at least more likely to overpraise or defend something, compare to older fans (even with the guys that claim Doom was the peak of FPS design and COD ruined it) because of "gamer" or "nerd" culture nowadays and the differences between both types of the fanbase.

Specially in how the fanbase and series grew and fanbase culture in general.

 

Before 2016, the average Doom fan not only still cared about the innactive (at the time) Doom series but also the modding and wad culture around it, while others would think "why do you still care about Doom when Halo, COD and TF2 are out there?".

Like, you had this community that not only directly kept the games alive and fresh, but even fought for it to the point everyone agreed on dropping Wikia to make a better new wiki.

Or the history behind Doom 64 ports and overall access and preservation of gaming history.

If you care about gaming trivia, sites like The Cutting Room Floor or even Rom hacks and emulation, you get the idea, specially with Doom's source code and all.

It's like the fans decided they actually owned the games.

 

New Doom fans don't even think about how the fanbase "expanded" Doom or influenced it to the point a fan nickname like "Doomguy" became literally official. (same for partially the character of the DoomSlayer)

They are used to a more surface level idea of what a fan of something means, as if it was akin to a religion or identity trait.

So you get the more "brand loyal" types that in reality either have surface knowledge/exposure to a series or are more recent.

Like how the MCU Disney types don't really care much for other Marvel media or with console wars: Loud Nintendo fans not caring about anything that isn't Mario, Zelda or Smash (which is ironic considering Smash's coverage of gaming history) or loud PlayStation fans that never grew with a PS1/2 or don't care about anything besides cinematic AAA titles.

 

Basically, a lot of r/Doom types and "Doom twitter" may post memes and all, but you get the idea that "X is temporary but Doom is Eternal" feels like it could have had some merit, if it was used with the right context and from the right people.

Doom is "eternal" but exactly why?

If a certian old Doom themed website, forum or mod hosting site goes down, who's going to bring it back?

Or who's going to keep certain source ports alive and all?

Because i feel like some "post mortem" plans should be considered.

I know that for all the trend chasers and "Fear Of Missing Out" types, there has to be some newcomers that got deeper into Doom and get fascinated by what Doom and the fanbase really are beyond the surface.

Otherwise, i fear we get the equivalent of Nintendo fans snitching to Nintendo about some fangames or emulation, although Doom's source code and the culture around it are in a safer position compared to other stuff.

 

Either these "loud" types aren't that familiar with the history of the fanbase or are this way because they want to seem more "loyal" than anyone that mapped for Doom or worked on a source port.

[DNSKILL5]

1 hour ago, NoXion said:

It's just the phrase du jour for behaviours that are shitty. Sure it's natural that some people are going to be shitty, but just because something is natural, doesn't mean it's something that should just be ignored or brushed off. This forum certainly doesn't just let shitty people get away with doing shitty things.

This thread claims it isn’t about Doomworld. This is about social media. Also, “get good” type of comments (which is something the OP specifically chose as an example) don’t really make me think “gatekeeping” or “toxic”. Are people really that sensitive these days that they can’t take a small jab at their ego over skill in a video game?

Edited November 1, 2020 by Gerolf

[NoXion]

2 minutes ago, Gerolf said:

Except this isn’t about Doomworld. This is about social media. Also, “get good” type of comments (which is what the OP specifically chose as an example) don’t really make me think “gatekeeping” or “toxic”. Are people really that sensitive these days that they can’t take a small jab at their ego over skill in a video game?

If it was just a case of "git gud" being used as a good-natured jab, then I doubt the OP would have posted what they did. You might mean it in a good-natured way, but unfortunately there are some people who take such things way too damn seriously.

I don't know how widespread a problem it is, I haven't encountered it much myself. Most of the spaces I choose to hang out in are well-curated. But I'm not going to just dismiss the experiences of others just because they're different to mine. Perhaps people taking things too seriously is a problem elsewhere that I'm lucky enough not to encounter very often.

[Doom64hunter]

10 hours ago, TenenteZashu said:

honestly I've noticed a ''Oh this person doesn't like an aspect of Doom Eternal, that means they don't understand how the game's supposed to work'' kind of mentality, especially on r/Doom and with a ''big fish'' of the nu-doom community regarding the Marauder (if you know you know) 

r/Doom in general is just absolute trash. Nothing but meme shitposts, zero intelligent discussion going on.

[DNSKILL5]

@NoXion, I get what you’re saying and I do agree that when behaviors go to far, it shouldn’t be ignored. The problem is, it’s social media. There’s a block feature for one, and two, I don’t think many platforms view “get good”, “u suck”,  “go play COD u loser”, “u control the buttons u press” etc. as comments that would be seen as an offense for a ban. The OP didn’t get specific either, and I didn’t see them mention bigotry, so I can’t imagine the comments are much worse than the ones I just typed. 
 

You’re right, Doomworld would stop it when it gets out of hand, but Doomworld doesn’t control other social media platforms where the main focus isn’t even on Doom as a whole. To me, the OP sounds like a personal problem with their social media connections, not a Doomworld community problem. This behavior isn’t really common in my experience either, so I think labeling the community as “becoming toxic” is a little overdramatic. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Gerolf

[HQDefault]

1 hour ago, Gerolf said:

@NoXion, I get what you’re saying and I do agree that when behaviors go to far, it shouldn’t be ignored. The problem is, it’s social media. There’s a block feature for one, and two, I don’t think many platforms view “get good”, “u suck”,  “go play COD u loser”, “u control the buttons u press” etc. as comments that would be seen as an offense for a ban. The OP didn’t get specific either, and I didn’t see them mention bigotry, so I can’t imagine the comments are much worse than the ones I just typed. 
 

You’re right, Doomworld would stop it when it gets out of hand, but Doomworld doesn’t control other social media platforms where the main focus isn’t even on Doom as a whole. To me, the OP sounds like a personal problem with their social media connections, not a Doomworld community problem. This behavior isn’t really common in my experience either, so I think labeling the community as “becoming toxic” is a little overdramatic. 

 

Fair enough. It is true that I haven't really seen anything in line with actual bigotry or anything like that. So it definitely couls be way, way worse.

 

And perhaps it was a bit of an exaggeration to describe it as "toxic" but that was mostly out of me not knowing what a better word for it would be. It's mostly along the lines of people tying the game's quality to their ego, and thus lashing out at anyone for having an even slightly different opinion. And it is largely the typical "git gud" comments, but then there's also the people that are genuinely like "Fuck you, you're ruining this game. Respect the game's vision." 

 

So I guess maybe I was jumping the gun a bit by calling it toxic, but I do think it's really fucking annoying.

[SteelPH]

I don't think there's a single community out there that isn't toxic on some level. It's merely varying degrees of toxicity between them.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

The only thing that really irritates me is when people accuse you of being "entitled" or insinuate that you are insulting the developers by criticizing their sacred game that you paid sixty dollars to play.  But those people are a part of every community. You also have people that will tell you you aren't allowed to criticize something if you can't personally do a better job than the developers, and people who will accuse you of criticizing something because you are just jealous. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[HQDefault]

1 minute ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

The only thing that really irritates me is when people accuse you of being "entitled" or insinuate that you are insulting the developers by criticizing their sacred game that you paid sixty dollars to play.

There it is. You hit the nail on the head.

[TheRedTide]

90% of the community is too busy kissing Huge Martian's ass to speak of the game in any critical way, just try criticizing the Marauder to see what happens.

[seed]

5 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

Mortal Kombat also has a ridiculously toxic community, and that's the easiest fighting game on the market to get into. 

 

Wasn't that KI or something though? I could be horribly misinformed though.

 

3 hours ago, NoXion said:

I don't know how widespread a problem it is, I haven't encountered it much myself. Most of the spaces I choose to hang out in are well-curated. But I'm not going to just dismiss the experiences of others just because they're different to mine. Perhaps people taking things too seriously is a problem elsewhere that I'm lucky enough not to encounter very often.

 

Where you hang around definitely plays a role in this indeed.

 

Like, most of the time I don't notice it either by mere virtue of not spending time where I have no business, and most streamers or YT I watch, such as BigMacDavis, are not the most skilled players you're going to find around, and they also have a really chill fanbase too. It also helps that they have not made attempts to spread this obnoxious mentality too, other people engage in it and the rest follow.