Map 33 Betray officially removed In Unity DOOM II releases (PC/Xbox One/PS4/iOS/Android/Switch)

[Wadmodder Shalton]

We should instead make a ZDOOM based project called "The Collected Levels" that consists of maps that were included in compilation episode replacement PWADs from 1994-1996 for DOOM 1, and make them playable in a separate episode that doesn't replace any episode of DOOM 1.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Wadmodder RiderPùdu

[ChopBlock223]

It would be cool to see the old Playstation levels repackaged in their own new port, though you'd have to convince Zenimax that this is a worthwhile effort. I'd rather see Kaiser and pals given the go ahead to polish up the Doom 64 port for its last few little bugs to make it perfect, and if I can dream, another new episode, because the last one was extremely fun.

[Blzut3]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:02 AM, VGA said:

What is the point of butchering the PSX-exclusive maps by not having the lighting, the reverb sound, the proper skies and the soundtrack?

For what it's worth, the maps already exist in the "butchered" form officially for the Saturn release (well a couple effects made it over I guess, but most of them are gone).  That said the maps probably could use a little adjustment to the lighting to make it more Jaguar like.  Personally I've always found the colored lighting in the Playstation version to be super gimmicky, so bad frame rate aside I prefer the way the Saturn version looks.  (Although I find the colors in Doom 64 a little gimmicky as well, Playstation Doom's lighting more often than not looks to me like they just added color for the sake of adding color.)

 

I think it would be kind of cool to have the Saturn campaign ported over officially similar to how Mac Wolfenstein contains both the SNES and PC campaigns.  But having the Playstation campaign on the proper engine would admittedly feel more complete even if I'm not that much of a fan.

 

As for the Sewers and Betray debate, I'm definitely in the camp that considers them official.  Definitely understand why they would remove them/not try to re-release them since they're objectively very low quality.  But I have them in my personal mod that injects all the console doom maps into game.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Maybe we should also include DOOM II PWAD one-shot levels included in megawad level replacements from late-1994 to mid & late 1997 as part of the ZDOOM-based project "The Collected Levels" combining both DOOM & DOOM II custom maps bundled with those compilation PWADs from 1994-1996 without replacing any episode of DOOM & DOOM II.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Wadmodder RiderPùdu

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Just wanted to bump up this thread I've made if it's okay, but should the removal of Map 33 Betray from the 2019-2020 rerelease of DOOM II be mentioned on the DoomWiki's entry for Map 33 Betray?

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

8 minutes ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

Just wanted to bump up this thread I've made if it's okay, but should the removal of Map 33 Betray from the 2019-2020 rerelease of DOOM II be mentioned on the DoomWiki's entry for Map 33 Betray?

I think so

[Arrowhead]

18 hours ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

Just wanted to bump up this thread I've made if it's okay, but should the removal of Map 33 Betray from the 2019-2020 rerelease of DOOM II be mentioned on the DoomWiki's entry for Map 33 Betray?

I agree - it should probably be mentioned on the wiki, if it was there to begin w/ and was then removed...

Edited June 19, 2021 by Arrowhead

[ZeroTheEro]

Disagree. I said it last year that you can't remove what's not there to begin with. Ed even said it as much.

 

On 11/11/2020 at 10:36 AM, Edward850 said:

For something to be officially removed, it would need to be officially added in the first place. They were never intended (as in by design spec), nor licensed to appear in the original Xbox ports when they did. Their "removal" would have been as drastically simple as just simply not using the OG Xbox branch anymore for assets.

Hence why they couldn't even be accessed in the 360 ports, the code was simply never there to run them and only the assets were still incidentally there.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

6 hours ago, ZeroTheEro said:

Disagree. I said it last year that you can't remove what's not there to begin with. Ed even said it as much.

 

Try opening the DOOM II 2019 rerelease IWAD in Slade to see if MAP33 is not there in the lumps, and check to see in Doom Builder if the secret switch from MAP02 that took you to Betray was removed.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Wadmodder Shalton

[ZeroTheEro]

I checked, no lumps for MAP33 or the existence of the secret switch.

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by ZeroTheEro

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Good, It's clear that both id Software, Nerve Software & Bethesda knew that nobody not even the DOOM community would be interested in another super secret level in DOOM II.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Wadmodder Shalton

[Wadmodder Shalton]

The removal of MAP 33 Betray should also be mentioned on the DoomWiki's Doom Classic Unity port article as well, in the Doom II Specific section that is.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Wadmodder Shalton

[ZeroTheEro]

Yeah sure. When Vicarious Visions last worked on the X360 port, they sure decided not to make their secret levels accessible in the first place for some reason (hint: quality), and the switch is buggy in the X360 and BFG Edition, last I heard.

Ultimately, it's a couple levels of no importance.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

4 hours ago, ZeroTheEro said:

Yeah sure. When Vicarious Visions last worked on the X360 port, they sure decided not to make their secret levels accessible in the first place for some reason (hint: quality), and the switch is buggy in the X360 and BFG Edition, last I heard.

Ultimately, it's a couple levels of no importance.

So yeah, now the newer releases of Doom & Doom II are now based on the old PC versions rather than the OG Xbox branch with minor map changes (mostly the removal of the Nine Inch Nails easter egg from E4M1, the removal of the LINEDEF glitch from MAP06, and the two Wolfenstein secret levels being partially censored), so the removal of Betray should be mentioned on the DoomWiki's pages on both MAP33 itself & the Doom Classic Unity port.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Wadmodder Shalton

[ZeroTheEro]

If you're so adamant about it, why don't you just edit the pages yourself?

 

[Wadmodder Shalton]

I've been thinking about it, but I can't register myself to the DoomWiki for some reason.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Just made my DoomWiki account, I might want to think about editing the Wiki's entries for Map 33 Betray & the Classic Doom Unity port regarding the removal of the map itself.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Wadmodder Shalton

[Redneckerz]

On 6/21/2021 at 2:14 AM, Wadmodder Shalton said:

Just made my DoomWiki account, I might want to think about editing the Wiki's entries for Map 33 Betray & the Classic Doom Unity port regarding the removal of the map itself.

Just shoot me a PM and ill make the change.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

7 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Just shoot me a PM and ill make the change.

Yeah, go ahead, I don't care if anyone edits the DoomWiki entries on the Doom Classic Unity ports & Map 33 Betray.

[Redneckerz]

On 6/23/2021 at 6:49 PM, Wadmodder Shalton said:

Yeah, go ahead, I don't care if anyone edits the DoomWiki entries on the Doom Classic Unity ports & Map 33 Betray.

Please send me a private message with the changes. I keep better track of that than these posts, thanks.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Oh also, the removal of Map33 Betray in the 2019 Unity Doom II rerelease should also be mentioned on The Cutting Room Floor's Doom II Revisional Differences page in the maps section.

[Alfonso]

You realize it was already removed from Doom Classic Complete for the PS3, right?

[ZeroTheEro]

13 hours ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

Oh also, the removal of Map33 Betray in the 2019 Unity Doom II rerelease should also be mentioned on The Cutting Room Floor's Doom II Revisional Differences page in the maps section.

I'm trying not to be mean, but seriously, do it yourself, man.

[RetroAkaMe]

It was bad anyway.