Is it just me or does doom eternal not seem like doom at all?

[Lafuente]

8 hours ago, NoXion said:

That looks pretty damn good! I would never expect a one-to-one conversion, but that looks worth downloading when it gets released.

Yes indeed. After all, it's coming from the same guy who made Quake Champions: Doom Edition, and that one was dope! 

[whatup876]

Beside Kar En Tuk, there's some other mods taking elements from 2016 and Eternal: D4V, D4D, Embers of Armageddon and even MetaDoom.

In fact, even Quake has its own modern Doom based mod, Slayer's Testaments.

There's probably other examples too.

[Lafuente]

1 hour ago, whatup876 said:

Beside Kar En Tuk, there's some other mods taking elements from 2016 and Eternal: D4V, D4D, Embers of Armageddon and even MetaDoom.

In fact, even Quake has its own modern Doom based mod, Slayer's Testaments.

There's probably other examples too.

There's that Doom Eternal mod for Serious Sam Fusion:

It has Eternal's HUD(Slightly modified) and some of its mechanics, but so far, weapons and monsters are based from Doom 2016. If you wanna try it out, here's the link:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025932641

Edited November 29, 2020 by Lafuente

[Frag Maniac]

On 11/13/2020 at 1:18 AM, Dr.Ferret said:

I recently played doom eternal and it feels... off. It is a decent game but it does not feel like the doom I know and love. Unlike doom 2016, doom eternal has a bunch of difficult platforming and you have to use your chainsaw to get ammo ALL the time. Not to mention the max amount of ammo is not that much at all for this game. You also have to constantly switch weapons which I don’t like. It just doesn’t feel like a doom game.

 

To me, and many of us, it feels like the best Doom yet. Sure some of the platforming can seem tough at first, it did for me, but once I found it comes down to mainly timing your dashes and jumps, it became second nature. I even got to the point where I could pull off a lot of shortcuts on the platforming. I'm also 62, so it doesn't take great reflexes or dexterity either.

 

And yes, you DO have to chainsaw to get ammo, but in 2016, on harder difficulty modes, there would be places I'd run out, and have to resort to the weak pistol from a distance, which is no fun. You also get plenty ammo once you hit all the sentinel crystal stations to upgrade it's capacity, and these stations can help a lot to replenish vital ammo before tough fights to top off the BFG.

 

Overall it's packed with more content and requires more strategy to play than previous Dooms, but if you're patient enough to ride that learning curve, it feels far more rewarding to play than any other Doom.

[Lafuente]

7 hours ago, Frag Maniac said:

 

To me, and many of us, it feels like the best Doom yet. Sure some of the platforming can seem tough at first, it did for me, but once I found it comes down to mainly timing your dashes and jumps, it became second nature. I even got to the point where I could pull off a lot of shortcuts on the platforming. I'm also 62, so it doesn't take great reflexes or dexterity either.

 

And yes, you DO have to chainsaw to get ammo, but in 2016, on harder difficulty modes, there would be places I'd run out, and have to resort to the weak pistol from a distance, which is no fun. You also get plenty ammo once you hit all the sentinel crystal stations to upgrade it's capacity, and these stations can help a lot to replenish vital ammo before tough fights to top off the BFG.

 

Overall it's packed with more content and requires more strategy to play than previous Dooms, but if you're patient enough to ride that learning curve, it feels far more rewarding to play than any other Doom.

Nicely said. Even though I haven't played both games, personally, Eternal is far better with more combat, aggressive enemies, and lots and lots of tactics and strategies you can make up on the fly(Not all of them have to work efficiently, but it's fun to experiment). That being said, I just don't like some parts of story, like leaving out the Wraiths, and moreso in Eternal, wherein while I was ok with Samuel being the Serpahim, he seem to act like two different characters in their interactions towards the Slayer. I like Eternal, but I swear, the writing could have been better. Just some changes to what's currently shown to us would be enough

And while so far, DOOM Eternal is the best Doom game yet, Hugo Martin admitted on an interview with EGX that he felt that they haven't made their best Doom Game yet, as he said to the interviewer that "I don't think we made our best Doom Game yet", so I'm looking forward to them trying to top Eternal with their "Best Doom Game Yet" Doom Game, like they topped Doom 2016 with Eternal, and then top that Doom game with an "Even Better Than The Best Doom Game Yet" Doom Game. Who knows just how many surprises left that id has to offer to us Doom fans

Anyways, I'll post the video here. The quote is at 13:45 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Lafuente

[A Nobody]

9 hours ago, Lafuente said:

Nicely said. Even though I haven't played both games, personally, Eternal is far better with more combat, aggressive enemies, and lots and lots of tactics and strategies you can make up on the fly(Not all of them have to work efficiently, but it's fun to experiment). That being said, I just don't like some parts of story, like leaving out the Wraiths, and moreso in Eternal, wherein while I was ok with Samuel being the Serpahim, he seem to act like two different characters in their interactions towards the Slayer. I like Eternal, but I swear, the writing could have been better. Just some changes to what's currently shown to us would be enough

And while so far, DOOM Eternal is the best Doom game yet, Hugo Martin admitted on an interview with EGX that he felt that they haven't made their best Doom Game yet, as he said to the interviewer that "I don't think we made our best Doom Game yet", so I'm looking forward to them trying to top Eternal with their "Best Doom Game Yet" Doom Game, like they topped Doom 2016 with Eternal, and then top that Doom game with an "Even Better Than The Best Doom Game Yet" Doom Game. Who knows just how many surprises left that id has to offer to us Doom fans

Anyways, I'll post the video here. The quote is at 13:45 

 

You seriously want better story in a Doom game???

[ZeroTheEro]

why not?

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

4 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

You seriously want better story in a Doom game???

Either a better story one that is more minimalist. What they have now doesn't work for me.

[whatup876]

Whenever i think of the "truly best Doom game", i feel like it may have to be seperated from the 2016/Eternal/Slayer games because they are technically their portrayal of Doom, with their own sets of rules within gameplay, art direction, story and even engine.

There's good parts from previous Doom games or even new ideas with potential that may not really fit the new games.

Specially for a series that has a history with experimentation, sometimes outside of whether or not it'd fit a certain timeline or continuity.

 

I feel like you'd need some "almost perfect" engine to put as much out of the series (and new things) as possible, even if a simplified art style in the vein of a retro throwback indie game or at least AA game is what you can get.

Like "retro" low poly 3D models that can mimick aspects of classic and new Doom like strategic enemy placement, "staying" enemies, Archviles, weak spots, new enemy concepts like the Carcass' shield, advanced bosses, maybe even something from Doom 3.

 

Like, something akin to MetaDoom or MiniDoom 2 with new stuff similar to what we got out of some mods that "expanded" the setting before.

Maybe exloration of the franchise's cut content/ideas or "HD" remastermind the designs, music etc.

Like anything that could have happened to the series, that the fanbase already did.

I feel like with how much fans did with Doom, they're like scientists that did so much research, they could be somewhat of a good resource of "what's possible?".

 

The new games have some fanservice with occasional references and i feel like some sort of collab between id and its fanbase (specially the portions that literally expanded/interacted with the games or did a lot of interesting/specialy/even necessary stuff) could work.

It'd also lead to "studying" Doom for a while and get too ambiguous, you might as well make more than one "best" Doom game or additional content, if there's too much potential.

 

Something that feels like a fangame that older fans could like because they think it's "more honest", while new fans like it because they think there's even more to Doom/Doom history that the new games may not have explored.

 

I also think the problem with making a "better story" is that it's sort of a "too wild" concept for Doom.

Not so much for the notion that "story never mattered in Doom" but also the overall identity it introduces compared to previous games.

Doomguy and the Slayer, the way how the UAC is presented, how Hell has changed in a lot of ways, the inclusion of the Sentinels and Urdak.

I feel like "a great story" and "a great Doom story" could be different things. (or maybe it's because of some of my personal opinions at some stuff)

 

I feel like we may not really be prepared for the "best Doom game(s)" yet.

May take some time and some risks.

[Frag Maniac]

18 hours ago, Lafuente said:

And while so far, DOOM Eternal is the best Doom game yet, Hugo Martin admitted on an interview with EGX that he felt that they haven't made their best Doom Game yet...

 

 

That statement is kinda a double edged sword for me, and sticks in my craw a bit. Reason being, if they're already aware of that, why did they decide to finish Slayer's story arc with a two part DLC that's merely half the length at best of a full installment? I'd have rather waited 4 years like we did for Eternal, and have them end what could have been a great trilogy with that claimed best game yet. And I don't see COVID as an excuse. If anything, COVID is all the more reason to hold back and put out something better on down the road to give this story arc a proper ending. Worst thing to do is come up with a great 2nd installment to a story, then finish with rushed DLCs. It just feels like they're giving up on this arc.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Frag Maniac

[whatup876]

With the arena style combat, i wonder if the new games could somehow work for a rougelike style of mode, like with Horde mode, but the player progresses through randomly selected rooms with differences in gameplay, enemy placement, traps, level features, geometry, aesthetic and something like that.

I know Strafe sort or proved it doesn't really work in FPS (and Oblige feels like it's the closest to make it "kinda" work) and the concept may work better in indie stuff.

Maybe something taking a bit of notes from Noita, Isaac's Binding or Hades, despite the overall differences in those games and genres.

Much like horde, a reason for a side game mode in this concept is mostly just to come up with new enemies, upgrades, abilities, items, weapons, level mechanics, traps and a lot of ideas that could be new to Doom.

Like, any idea that sort of existed in other games or mods would be there, so Doom "canonically" has so much you can do with, specially for crossovers and stuff.

Something that feels like "all or nothing" and make it feel like most mods are almost canon because of the features they have, even with how they do something differently.

Even if some ideas feel like taken from different genres.

Like swinging ropes from some platformers or wall jumping or even that kind of wall jump from Megaman X.

 

Speaking of lore, i thought of a weird way to justify why regular weapons can kill demons.

You know those conspiracy theories like "they're putting something in the air/water" and all?

Imagine if the UAC knew about the demon invasion and couldn't prepare for it, so they did some experiments using holy water and other relics to apply a certain "holy" element to their bases, Mars, Earth, Phobos, space and some other places.

So a lot of things can kill demons because they secretly have something that allows them to do it.

And Doomguy may be a "special" case of "holyness" like the UAC sort of did a Divinity Machine by accident or undirectly.

So maybe Doomguy can go certain places and still make the effect work, which means demons really are almost indestructible if not for the UAC's weird effort into making sure anyone or anything can still kill demons and spread the effect to other dimensions.

Edited December 1, 2020 by whatup876

[bobbie424242]

On 11/30/2020 at 5:36 PM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Either a better story one that is more minimalist. What they have now doesn't work for me.

 

Still, the lore is very well done if you dig into it (codexes + concept art).

They put a lot of effort in it and it absolutely translates in the game art,levels

and environments. The Ancient Gods DLC build upon that in interesting ways and the

story remains to be finished (Part 2). If you totally ignore the lore, you cannot have deep grasp of the

game because it was designed around it. The first thing id did was very likely to write the lore

and resulting game bible for designers to work on.

 

I was really impressed by the DLC and I think it flows much better than the main game,

because you start with a fully loaded Doom guy and you do not have to worry about upgrades anymore,

which IMHO slows things down in the main campaign with its zillions upgrade points.

To me, AG has better pacing and is closer to the spirit of classic doom, although it looks vastly different.

Edited December 1, 2020 by bobbie424242

[whatup876]

Also, i just remember how E3M3 may have one or two times where liquid textures were used for ceilings, D2's map 26 having that weird water block in the end and one of Plutonia's levels having that floating cross made of blood.

Basically, if floating shapes and objects of liquids were a thing in gameplay, so you could swim in liquids placed and shaped in different ways for the sake of the weirdness.

 

A problem can be the player needing to understand if he's about to get out of the water.

 

I'm not sure if Quake had it besides maybe that "plane" of water to get the Nightmare difficulty.

[A Nobody]

Rougelike can work in an fps.

[Lafuente]

21 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

Rougelike can work in an fps.

To clarify, what are roguelikes again?

[Super Mighty G]

@Lafuente Randomly generated elements and permadeath. 

[A Nobody]

With what Whatup876 said about Strafe, I'm guessing it was done wrong in that game. Again, the idea can work.

Edited December 3, 2020 by The Strife Commando

[Ziad EL Zein]

It just doesn't feel like a pure shooter it is like a new hybrid hack and slash shooter! blood punch this enemy glory kill for health and chainsaw for ammo what the f!!!! 

[jazzmaster9]

22 hours ago, Ziad EL Zein said:

It just doesn't feel like a pure shooter it is like a new hybrid hack and slash shooter! blood punch this enemy glory kill for health and chainsaw for ammo what the f!!!! 

And I think that's why Doom Eternal stands out, it isn't just a Pure shooter. it has elements from different games that you would usually don't associate with each other. I don't think there is anything really wrong with that.

Edited December 4, 2020 by jazzmaster9

[Taurus Daggerknight]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:29 AM, Ziad EL Zein said:

It just doesn't feel like a pure shooter it is like a new hybrid hack and slash shooter! blood punch this enemy glory kill for health and chainsaw for ammo what the f!!!! 

 

I kind of like the hack-and-slash elements myself. If anything I kind of wish we were using the crucible instead of the chainsaw for that part of the melee dynamic, or that we could use the blade to parry the Marauders. All in all; I like the mix of guns and melee. I think it's better done (in terms of balancing between the two) than Shadow Warrior 2, where melee was just flat out better than guns. Only thing I want now is, again, some form of melee parrying. 

[Skootroot]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:29 AM, Ziad EL Zein said:

it is like a new hybrid hack and slash shooter! blood punch this enemy glory kill for health and chainsaw for ammo what the f!!!! 

 

What's so wrong with that?

[Lafuente]

On 12/3/2020 at 5:29 PM, Ziad EL Zein said:

It just doesn't feel like a pure shooter it is like a new hybrid hack and slash shooter! blood punch this enemy glory kill for health and chainsaw for ammo what the f!!!! 

On the contrary, it just makes the game more exciting, and fuels your blood for more demon-killing. That's what the Classics should be about: Killing demons and making a bloodpath filled to the brim with dead demons. I mean, not even the classics are pure-shooters themselves, seeing as we have a fist, chainsaw, and for bloodier punches, a Berserk Pack. 

[Dr. Crowley]

I still think that there are Classic Doom (Doom 1-2) for old-time fans and Modern Doom (2016 and Eternal) for modern public. Wanna something classic? Play Ultimate/Hell on Earth/Final. Wanna something modern? Play 2016/Eternal and don't expect the same gameplay from 1994. It's pretty simple, isn't it?

[seed]

4 hours ago, Dr. Crowley said:

I still think that there are Classic Doom (Doom 1-2) for old-time fans and Modern Doom (2016 and Eternal) for modern public. Wanna something classic? Play Ultimate/Hell on Earth/Final. Wanna something modern? Play 2016/Eternal and don't expect the same gameplay from 1994. It's pretty simple, isn't it?

 

Or both generations, but otherwise I agree, new Doom is not made for people wanting the same thing recycled forever, those will always be disappointed. And absolutely not those who want a 1:1 remake in a new engine.

 

But, now that it was mentioned, some form of melee parrying would be awesome. I think this was a huge wasted opportunity for Eternal, that the Crucible was used mainly to slash tough enemies.

[snapshot]

Quote

I still think that there are Classic Doom (Doom 1-2) for old-time fans and Modern Doom (2016 and Eternal) for modern public. Wanna something classic? Play Ultimate/Hell on Earth/Final. Wanna something modern? Play 2016/Eternal and don't expect the same gameplay from 1994. It's pretty simple, isn't it?

What if i'm not expecting anything and I simply don't like the tedious grind that is Doom Eternal lol

Edited February 14, 2021 by sluggard

[Frag Maniac]

On 12/3/2020 at 1:29 AM, Ziad EL Zein said:

It just doesn't feel like a pure shooter it is like a new hybrid hack and slash shooter! blood punch this enemy glory kill for health and chainsaw for ammo what the f!!!! 

 

God forbid a dev team should think outside the box and insist players use something other than their index finger to spray bullets, I mean really?

 

Regardless what anyone thinks about the combat loop, this game DOES make you think more. The fact that many start out intimidated (or even annoyed) by the difficulty playing it and the learning curve involved, makes that point pretty much irrefutable.

 

Honestly, I wish more devs would have the balls to come up with something more challenging and time consuming to get the hang of, instead of just having us merely spray bullets. Any frustrations you have on first impressions melt away once you get the technique down and get in a rhythm, and suddenly you realize rewards that are truly earned are the best and most memorable gaming moments.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Frag Maniac

[D4NUK1]

8 hours ago, sluggard said:

What if i'm not expecting anything and I simply don't like the tedious grind that is Doom Eternal lol, just refund it, that's also simple.

Then it's  not your type of game, and it's okay if you refund it. 

[snapshot]

As long as the base premise and Doom elements are there I don't see why it shouldn't be a Doom game, but I can see how all the new additions may confuse some people into thinking it's a different game.

Edited January 18, 2021 by sluggard

[SYS]

It says Doom on the tin. Classic Doom is still kicking if DE isn't Doom enough for ya. Whether you think it's a ridiculous fan fiction or an evolution of series; DE is Doom through and through. 

[whatup876]

Maybe people expected Doom to evolve differently, which can be seen in mods, because you can technically "modernize" or expand Doom while maintaining the core.

But because anything "fitting" or obvious was already done in fan works, that's probably why the official material is very different. (even the "classic" designs in Eternal look different from the original sprites, so faithfullness wasn't the main goal)

Because at the same time, IF an official Doom game tried to be "faithfull" or even have people responsible for some fan projects behind it, most people wouldn't hate it, at least, whether it's a purist fan or the guy telling said purist to "shut up/you just hate new things".

 

I think in general, you could go with a nice balance of actual new/fresh/innovative ideas and some throwbacks/faithfullness/realization for the existing/previous material, specially for a series whose identity has so many ways to be "realized".

Maybe people just think Doom has potential for a more unique or at least "cooler" identity that never happened in the main games and a lot of great fan projects are a result of "taking this series' silly premise too seriously" and people don't want Doom to be "liked ironically". (specially for a series that felt misrepresented in pop culture, that even those that grew up with it spread the idea that you weren't meant to play it with mouse)

I feel like the more "faithfull Doom expansion" or something could be in side stuff, like spin offs with lower budgets but with collabs with certain people and a lot of experimentation and projects for the sake of fanservice and all, while the main games get to focus on the Slayer portion of the series.

 

Speaking of experimenting, i think in-game vehicles like those in some classic Shadow Warrior maps could be fun for some level puzzles or at least to go GTA and run over Imps with a bulldozer.

Maybe even give them guns just because, even if it'd be like driving a tank or turret on wheels.

And if the cancelled Doom 4 were to be justified, maybe take notes from Hideous Destructor, which is like one of the most advanced Doom mods and probably the best military sim possibly, just with a Doom/Hell theme to it, even if that mod is like the Doom version of Space Station 13: in the sense that it's specifically developed and heavily detailed but obviously not for everyone.

Was also thinking of seesaw related puzzles to fit the platforming, because of classic/2D Sonic.

 

On different topics, i wonder if the organization ARC in Eternal could have something to do with Noah's arc, specially because of the carrier we saw in Eternal.

Also, dumb idea: any chance of an helmetless skin could allow for some silly glory kill where Doomguy bites off the ears of enemies.