Big texture/editing issue

[Malefication]

Hello!

Was planning on using some basic "5th episode" textures in an upcoming WAD. Everything of course looks great in Doombuilder, and almost all textures work fine when adding them to the map using SLADE3. However, there's a set of "N5VTX001 - 057" that cause issues. Seemingly not all of them, but every single one of them with metal (see first attachment)

Spoiler

have some major issues. First of all they aren't found under the default PP_START (or FF_START, TX_START). Instead I need to export them through the TEXTURE1 lump/patch(?). Doing so lets me add the textures to the WAD, however issue number two appears then.

 

The vines are missing. So I dive deeper and look at them in SLADE3's texture editor. All the "N5VTX001"+ textures seem to be made out of several different textures, and some of them work as they should and some don't. "N5VTX010" shown in the image above consists of 4 "N5META30" textures next to each other, and a "W107_1" texture above that. Clicking "W107_1" only highlights a small square in the left corner (seen in image 2). Trying to replace or add another texture/patch in the editor takes me to two different selections: Unknown and nb5texd2.WAD. The N5VTX000 textures that work have their components in the nb5tex2d.WAD while those, like the vines, are "Unknown". See image 3.

At this point I'm at a standstill. This is how far I can troubleshoot on my own, as I am unfortunately not very experienced with Doom texturing etc. Since Doombuilder can access the vines and display them correctly when launching the map from Doombuilder itself (both with GZDoom and PrBoom+), surely there has to be a way to access them through SLADE3 to repair the textures and make them look like they should in-game? I have made an attempt at re-downloading the texture WAD, but the same problem persists. Hoping someone more experienced than I am can help me out here, or just confirm that there's nothing I can do!

Spoiler

 

 

[plums]

So first of all, you're confused on the difference between patches and textures. A patch is a graphic used for wall textures, that should be in between P_START/P_END, and also needs to be defined in the PNAMES lump. (A "lump" is just an entry in a wad file.) A texture is made from one or more patches, and is what the level editor uses on walls. Textures are defined in the TEXTURE1/2 lumps, and they don't really exist as graphics on their own. One texture can be made up of multiple patches, and one patch can be used in multiple textures, and neither of them need to have the same name. The PNAMES and TEXTURE1/2 lumps are not cumulative, meaning only one of each can be loaded, so if you want to add textures without taking away the ones in Doom 1/2 you need to import those lumps from the base game and then add to them. SLADE can do this all automatically, but you need to tell it that that's what you want to do.

 

(This system exists to save disk space, which was important at the time Doom was made. ZDoom based ports let you put textures right in the TX_START/TX_END markers to bypass this whole mess. F_START/F_END are used for flats (floor/ceiling textures), but in ZDoom based ports you can use those as wall textures and vice-versa.)

 

It looks like what you've done is create a new set of TEXTURE1/PNAMES lumps without importing the old ones from Doom 2? Can you link the texture pack so I can look at it to see if it comes with those lumps of its own? It looks like you should just be able to copy everything from that texture pack into your wad, as long as you include the TEXTURE1 and PNAMES lumps.

 

Edit: Did you see this tutorial? It looks like it even uses the textureset you're working with:

http://slade.mancubus.net/index.php?page=wiki&wikipage=How-to-Import-Textures

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by plums

[Gez]

The patches you miss are in the IWAD. If you open doom.wad or doom2.wad first, you should see them appear. W107_1, for example, is the vine patch used in BROVINE, GSTVINE2, and MIDVINE2.

 

It made sense for the 5th episode texture pack to reuse existing Doom patches when possible. There are even a few texture packs that are made exclusively of rearranged Doom patches, so all you get is the TEXTURE1/TEXTURE2 lumps and not a single graphic.

[Malefication]

Thank you both for the replies! I am indeed not very good with the SLADE/doom editing terminology, so thanks for the clarification of what is what.

I had indeed forgotten to open the doom2 IWAD first, so that seems to have solved the missing patches (look, I learned!) that should have been part of the textures. I had read the SLADE tutorial page, but it never mentioned any IWADs, nor the issue with the n5vtx-textures.

 

My original plan was to just copy over a few textures to avoid unnecessary bloat of the WAD. The only current issue now is that some of the default textures (like n5vtx010) lack the vines, but if I go into the TEXTURE1 lump and view the texture there, the vines appear as they should, and I figure just exporting them and replacing the old ones ought to do the trick.