why is getting opengl a pain

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

I'm surprised that thing is actually functional while playing games using Win10. Like seed said, it's some pretty outdated stuff, all the way around.

Edited November 30, 2020 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[forgettable pyromaniac]

1 hour ago, seed said:

Indeed, goodness grief.

 

That laptop is basically a rock and dead-end for anything more advanced and demanding. That's also an 8yrs old driver wtf.

still better than my family laptop, if only by a tiny bit :p

[VGA]

8 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

still better than my family laptop, if only by a tiny bit :p

I think that driver from 2015 that is for Win 8.1 x64 should work on Win 10 x64, if you want to try it.

 

Also, you can google the model name of your laptop and you will find its support page, that should offer drivers (but probably old ones)

 

No,  wait, I think yours is a first generation CPU (Intel calls it previous generation). Don't change anything lol

Edited November 30, 2020 by VGA

[LexiMax]

Yeah, that's pretty old.  I don't even think it compares favorably to a $35 Raspberry Pi.

 

OpenGL 3 and above might as well be a completely different graphics API than OpenGL 2.x and below.  The differences between the two are too long to list here, and the differences completely changes how you write games and 3D programs, and means that even doing a simple "Draw a Triangle on the screen" is completely different in GL3+ vs GL2.  Most programmers I've talked to vastly prefer the GL3+ way of doing things to the GL2, so when a program says it requires OpenGL 3.x or 4.x, believe it.  They don't want to go back to the old ways.

 

But back to my point, if you have the financial means, I really do think you need a new laptop.  You don't need the latest laptop out there with all the bells and whistles, but picking up a used laptop on Craigslist or a super-cheap Asus, Dell or HP would probably vastly improve not only your ability to play and edit Doom but numerous other things you might do with it.  I think you have officially gotten your money's worth out of the old one.

Edited November 30, 2020 by AlexMax

[forgettable pyromaniac]

1 hour ago, AlexMax said:

Yeah, that's pretty old.  I don't even think it compares favorably to a $35 Raspberry Pi.

 

OpenGL 3 and above might as well be a completely different graphics API than OpenGL 2.x and below.  The differences between the two are too long to list here, and the differences completely changes how you write games and 3D programs, and means that even doing a simple "Draw a Triangle on the screen" is completely different in GL3+ vs GL2.  Most programmers I've talked to vastly prefer the GL3+ way of doing things to the GL2, so when a program says it requires OpenGL 3.x or 4.x, believe it.  They don't want to go back to the old ways.

 

But back to my point, if you have the financial means, I really do think you need a new laptop.  You don't need the latest laptop out there with all the bells and whistles, but picking up a used laptop on Craigslist or a super-cheap Asus, Dell or HP would probably vastly improve not only your ability to play and edit Doom but numerous other things you might do with it.  I think you have officially gotten your money's worth out of the old one.

The issue is, this one is from my family, dad's side.
He gave it to me kinda like a christmas present but early.

The family laptop is worse than this one, so honestly I'm just happy that tf2 runs at 20 fps ._ .

[Redneckerz]

2 hours ago, seed said:

Indeed, goodness grief.

 

That laptop is basically a rock and dead-end for anything more advanced and demanding. That's also an 8yrs old driver wtf.

Atleast update the driver haha.

7 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

The issue is, this one is from my family, dad's side.
He gave it to me kinda like a christmas present but early.

So, eh... i take it that where you live computing hardware is more restrictive to get by/costs a lot more than elsewhere?

 

7 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

The family laptop is worse than this one, so honestly I'm just happy that tf2 runs at 20 fps ._ .

Now i am legit curious what that runs...

[Loud Silence]

6 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Atleast update the driver haha.

Better old, but working driver, than new, but barely compatible with old hardware. I remember when i updated HP Pavilion ZE2000 GPU with legacy driver downloaded from official AMD site. Many things were broken (white lines everywhere in Half-Life; Quake 2 was laggy and particles were gone etc...) It was right driver, i chose exact gpu model and OS in AMD site. I uninstalled it and installed old one back - everything worked perfectly again. "Update drivers" works only for new hardware.

[Redneckerz]

3 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

Better old, but working driver, than new, but barely compatible with old hardware. I remember when i updated HP Pavilion ZE2000 GPU with legacy driver downloaded from official AMD site. Many things were broken (white lines everywhere in Half-Life; Quake 2 was laggy and particles were gone etc...) It was right driver, i chose exact gpu model and OS in AMD site. I uninstalled it and installed old one back - everything worked perfectly again. "Update drivers" works only for new hardware.

... Or you update to the latest stable driver/OS. Just because your experience was negatively impacted does not mean it applies wholesale.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Updating to latest won't help when your hardware is too old to use it. It'll either get slower or outright start crashing.

[seed]

Indeed.

 

I remember from my potato that for a while it was useful while it was still new-ish, but slowly afterwards the performance degraded more and more as the drivers were optimized more and more for the new hardware that was coming out.

 

This can also happens with age, past a certain point the hardware will be just too old to be able to squeeze any more life out of it.

Edited November 30, 2020 by seed

[forgettable pyromaniac]

1 hour ago, Redneckerz said:

Now i am legit curious what that runs...

well, I dunno either, but it ran minecraft at 40fps inconsistently, and the one I'm on right now is inconsistently 60fps and constant 30fps.

30fps in games like SCP: Containment Breach, too, going down to 20 when around smoke particles (yes i turned down the smoke effect)

Most of the games I like playing are pretty old, anyway.

 

 

1 hour ago, Redneckerz said:

So, eh... i take it that where you live computing hardware is more restrictive to get by/costs a lot more than elsewhere?

I live in the US, my family on my mum's side (where I live) just barely gets by.

I haven't even seen my dad's side in the last few years, I finally got to see them early october, and I got this laptop from them last weekend.

It was aparently a work laptop that ran windows 7, at least until we got it upgraded to windows 10.

[Redneckerz]

36 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

well, I dunno either, but it ran minecraft at 40fps inconsistently, and the one I'm on right now is inconsistently 60fps and constant 30fps.

30fps in games like SCP: Containment Breach, too, going down to 20 when around smoke particles (yes i turned down the smoke effect)

Most of the games I like playing are pretty old, anyway.

You can use the same GPUZ program there...

36 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

I live in the US, my family on my mum's side (where I live) just barely gets by.

I haven't even seen my dad's side in the last few years, I finally got to see them early october, and I got this laptop from them last weekend.

It was aparently a work laptop that ran windows 7, at least until we got it upgraded to windows 10.

You may well be better off keeping it on Windows 7 as its more suitable for the hardware - But W7 support is not Endless.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

19 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

You can use the same GPUZ program there...

I know, I just don't have the laptop on me atm. As I said, it's the family's.

 

19 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

You may well be better off keeping it on Windows 7 as its more suitable for the hardware

That's True, I'm just used to windows 10 tbh.

 

20 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

But W7 support is not Endless.

That's why me and my brother upgraded it to Windows 10

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Microsoft previously provided Hardware Accelerated OpenGL support in Windows 95, 98, NT 4.0, 2000 & ME, but support was dropped in the included video drivers in Windows XP since 2001, but other Manufactures provided hardware acceleration alternatives.

 

But even then, these OpenGL drivers even today are still bloated.

[Redneckerz]

12 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

I know, I just don't have the laptop on me atm. As I said, it's the family's.

 

That's True, I'm just used to windows 10 tbh.

Degraded performance is what the Microsoft Wizard will give you.

12 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

 

That's why me and my brother upgraded it to Windows 10

But that's also why driver issues exist.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

@forgettablepyromaniac

 

I work at a lot of hotels, I often find old laptops, some decent, some old as dirt. If you live in the US, I can make a mental note to send whatever I find to you, as I usually either dump them, give them away, or strip them for parts. I'd be happy to send anything I come across to you.

 

If the CPU in your laptop can be replaced, I might be able to help you. I have a laptop somewhere in my room with an i5 processor. It it matches your socket type, I can send it to you.

Edited November 30, 2020 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[smeghammer]

1 hour ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

That's why me and my brother upgraded it to Windows 10

 

Strongly recommend Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (20.04 LTS works ok too, but prefer 18.04) for repurposing older laptops. I've done several W7 and even older laptops many of which I run GZDoom on perfectly well. You will find that performance of Ubuntu is better than W10 on the same older hardware. And it's free of course...

 

It has excellent built-in driver support and an extensive library of proprietary drivers too (Nvidia etc.).

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by smeghammer

[VGA]

@forgettablepyromaniac

 

Stop listening to these crazies, don't change anything on your laptop, just use the proper editors and the compatible source ports :D

[forgettable pyromaniac]

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

@forgettablepyromaniac

 

I work at a lot of hotels, I often find old laptops, some decent, some old as dirt. If you live in the US, I can make a mental note to send whatever I find to you, as I usually either dump them, give them away, or strip them for parts. I'd be happy to send anything I come across to you.

 

If the CPU in your laptop can be replaced, I might be able to help you. I have a laptop somewhere in my room with an i5 processor. It it matches your socket type, I can send it to you.

nono! it's cool.

I dont even have a PO box or anything, even if I wanted to.

Thank you though, I'll keep that in mind :)
 

 

1 hour ago, smeghammer said:

 

Strongly recommend Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (20.04 LTS works ok too, but prefer 18.04) for repurposing older laptops.

I've heard Linux is pretty good, but I'm not great with it.
I'm not a big brained person when it comes to PCs

 

I'm not BAD, I know my way around most computers, I know how to set DuckDuckGo as my default browser and such
(and on macs, I know how to circumvent most protections :D)
but Linux just isn't quite my Forte.

 

1 hour ago, VGA said:

@forgettablepyromaniac

 

Stop listening to these crazies, don't change anything on your laptop, just use the proper editors and the compatible source ports :D

They're not crazies! :D If anything, I'm crazy for even keeping on this topic tbh :p

but yeah, my zandronum config and stuff still works like a dream, I just had to downgrade from UBD to GZDB.
And Downgrading wasn't even that bad, I mostly just had to fix my skyboxes :p

[jval]

On 11/29/2020 at 2:52 PM, forgettablepyromaniac said:

I looked up how to find what generation processer I have, and I believe it's a 2nd Gen.

So I click 2nd Gen...
 

 

It's first generation.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

Here are images of the laptop before I completely forget

[wrkq]

Funnily enough I still own essentially the same laptop - mine is the the "next quarter's refresh" version with second generation Core-i CPU, but the service manual I have talks about the older mainboard with first generation CPU.

Toshiba Satellite A660 - while there were many similar models in the lineup, they either didn't have the touch-button bar above the keyboard or didn't come in black.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

I wouldn't blame John Carmack for portraying DirectX/Direct3D as a software renderer & portraying OpenGL as a hardware renderer since id Tech 3 onwards, except for Microsoft's Xbox consoles since it only supports DirectX/Direct3D and doesn't support OpenGL & Vulkan.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Wadmodder RiderPùdu

[VGA]

45 minutes ago, Wadmodder RiderPùdu said:

I wouldn't blame John Carmack for portraying DirectX/Direct3D as a software renderer & portraying OpenGL as a hardware renderer since id Tech 3 onwards

What does that mean?

[Wadmodder Shalton]

As scene in the features that id Tech 3 provides:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_3

[VGA]

3 hours ago, Wadmodder RiderPùdu said:

I wouldn't blame John Carmack for portraying DirectX/Direct3D as a software renderer

That makes no sense to me.

[Edward850]

@Wadmodder RiderPùdu Software renderers are not related to DirectX, DirectX is a hardware acceleration suite that can be an efficient way of blitting a software renderer to the screen, but is not implicit of that, nor is that the only way to output a software framebuffer (which you could also use OpenGL or Vulkan). Carmack dropped the software renderer in idTech3 because he felt that it was no longer beneficial to future iterations of the technology, and he didn't use Direct3D on Windows because why do that when OpenGL was a lot more universal (at the time) and he had an actual say on its ongoing development and extensions with GPU manufactures. The two, however are in no possible way related.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Edward850

[Wadmodder Shalton]

That's the point, id Tech since Quake III has likely never supported DirectX/Direct3D on PC, only on Microsoft's Xbox consoles as they don't support OpenGL & Vulkan.

[Edward850]

Okay, but to be clear what you previously said doesn't match that, because what you actually seemed to imply was that DirectX was a software renderer.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Edward850

[forgettable pyromaniac]

Okay okay, I know this thread is old by now, but some people were asking about my previous laptop because I said it runs even worse in terms of power. I recently got a chance to run CPU-Z on it, so here are the specs that CPU-Z tells me.


In terms of speed in general, it's slower but this laptop technically has more meat on it's bones in terms of OpenGL and DirectX Support.