Sandy Petersen giving a Doom 2 level 16 house tour

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

Sandy Petersen sometimes makes videos on his time working with id Software. Here he's taking us into several real world locations and showing how they were used in the game.

 

[SF.]

"Doom 2 isn't real 3D, it's one and a half D"

 

Oh boy

[Omniarch]

Taking some... creative liberties with reality, I see. Classic Sandy. The man gives negative infinity fucks about boring concepts like 'logic' and 'reason'. I love the sheer whimsy on display here. Honestly, I think Doom wouldn't be half the game it is without that mixture of low-key horror, whimsy and unbridled insanity that he helped create.

[seed]

As typical for Sandy, a lot of sources were used for inspiration for the Doom II levels, ranging from real life locations to nightmares.

 

Rather interesting video honestly, cool how he more-or-less tried to recreate his house in MAP16. Seems he is still proud of his work after all these years. He'll always be underrated in my book, which is the antithesis of how his maps are perceived by the community - good to play, bad at everything else.

[D.Vile]

From the way he talked, you can tell this man is proud of his work. He has always been underrated as a designer IMO, and I wouldn't mind seeing him designing Doom levels again, like Romero did with SIGIL. But I guess he has been a little too busy designing tabletop board games lately.

 

BTW, speaking of board games, did you guys know he did actually include Doomguy and the Cyberdemon as miniatures in his newest game ?

 

https://imgur.com/r/doom/96kdwdy

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/petersengames/return-to-planet-apocalypse/

 

 

[SOSU]

The OG MyHouse.Wad

(Stole this joke from myself in the comments)

[Biodegradable]

Doom's jolly old King of Abstraction. We give his Doom 2 levels a hard time now and then, but we still love him at the end of the day. :^)

[Silhouette 03]

In my opinion, Sandy’s levels made Doom and Doom 2 more interesting, with his use of gimmicks and a more abstract design. Though they did not always work well(Unholy Cathedral), they made his levels stand out from Romero and Mcgee’s maps.

[P41R47]

This comes exactly when i started to re-apraice Sandy work on Doom 2.

Ugly as fuck, but charming and really fun. Thats for sure.

 

From all the locales Sandy made in UDoom and Doom2, tech base are his strangest of all. Not like a base at all, more like a living grinding machine with little to nothing resemblance to military areas.

His city and hell maps are sheer awesomeness on abstract design.

 

Been having a lot of fun playing Doom2 lately. :)

[AinuTheTaken]

How unexpected. Nice video though.

[Endless]

4 hours ago, D.Vile said:

From the way he talked, you can tell this man is proud of his work. He has always been underrated as a designer IMO, and I wouldn't mind seeing him designing Doom levels again, like Romero did with SIGIL. But I guess he has been a little too busy designing tabletop board games lately.

 

BTW, speaking of board games, did you guys know he did actually include Doomguy and the Cyberdemon as miniatures in his newest game ?

 

https://imgur.com/r/doom/96kdwdy

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/petersengames/return-to-planet-apocalypse/

 

 

 

Sandy is a cool guy. That ''1.5D'' lol.

Quote

BTW, speaking of board games, did you guys know he did actually include Doomguy and the Cyberdemon as miniatures in his newest game ?

Also, this is def a IoS reference.

[SaladBadger]

I read many years ago about Sandy sticking his house and his parent's/his childhood houses into the game, and I correctly speculated on the identities of both of them, but it's actually really cool seeing how Sandy adapted them into the Doom world. Though I'm sad we can't see what the triangle thing looked like in real life.

[Soundblock]

Am I the only one envisioning a chainsaw rampage in progress when the guy starts mowing his lawn?

[QuotePilgrim]

What would 1.5D even be lol? I think he probably meant 2.5D which is what people generally call Doom. I think what best describes what it does is it takes a 2D map and renders a 3D world from that. But what do I know right?

 

That was a really cool video to watch, I only wish it was a bit longer, as I quite like hearing Sandy speak. I should probably check out his channel.

[Foxpup]

21 minutes ago, QuotePilgrim said:

What would 1.5D even be lol? I think he probably meant 2.5D which is what people generally call Doom.

 

The idea that Doom is 2.5D is a common misconception, stemming from the idea that bugs and inconsistencies in the implementation of the Z-axis imply that Doom is fundamentally a 2D game, with the Z-axis tacked on as an afterthought. But by this logic, Doom is in fact a mere 1D game, as only the X-axis is fully implemented; the code to handle the additional Y-axis was just poorly copied from the X-axis code, leading to this bug which often goes unnoticed, but when you do notice it, it shatters the illusion of Doom's second dimension.

[QuotePilgrim]

@Foxpup maybe it's just me, but I thought Doom being considered 2.5D was the consensus. I'm not the biggest fan of the term 2.5D but it does make sense if we consider it to mean 3D but with limitations. Like Doom is 3D but the map format is 2D and the engine often ignores the z axis or handles it incorrectly. It's 3D but an arguably incomplete 3D, which makes sense given that it evolved from a 3D engine that handled almost if not everything in 2D internally.

 

Anyway I was just poking fun at Sandy's slip up, or whatever it was. The most likely explanation is he meant 2.5 instead of 1.5.

Edited December 5, 2020 by QuotePilgrim
typo

[kwc]

I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

 

doom is actually 0.5D                                            

Edited December 5, 2020 by kwc

[seed]

6 hours ago, QuotePilgrim said:

I thought Doom being considered 2.5D was the consensus.

 

It's not.

 

It's a common misconception.

[QuotePilgrim]

Alright then. I would argue it's more a matter of what you understand "2.5D" to be than a misconception. However, as I said I don't like the term 2.5D so I'm not exactly invested in defending it, so...

 

33 minutes ago, seed said:

It's a common misconception.

Fair enough.

Edited December 5, 2020 by QuotePilgrim
Phrasing

[Gez]

Depends on what you count. The vertical dimension is handled separately from the horizontal ones and that causes a number of issues (e.g. infinite vertical collisions that caused id to have to duplicate some hanging items into blocking and non-blocking variants for examples, or stairs that can be moved up but not down, or how projectiles travel faster when they get autoaimed up or down because their horizontal speed is constant and the vertical component is added to it, or hitscan monsters that shoot their buddies if they are between you and them on a horizontal level even if they aren't in 3D space -- like a chaingunner on one side of canyon, you on the other, and hapless demons at the bottom who intercepts all the bullets somehow). For these reasons it doesn't bother me if people say Doom is 2.5D.

 

Also from an editing perspective, mapping is a top-down affair, everything is done in 2D and adding a true 3D element to geometry requires advanced port features. Nothing like manipulating brushes or meshes in more modern engines.

[Foxpup]

22 minutes ago, Gez said:

hitscan monsters that shoot their buddies if they are between you and them on a horizontal level even if they aren't in 3D space -- like a chaingunner on one side of canyon, you on the other, and hapless demons at the bottom who intercepts all the bullets somehow

 

Actually that one's purely due to vertical autoaim affecting monsters' hitscan attacks the same as the players': shots are autoaimed towards the nearest shootable object, even if it's not the intended target. Hitscan attacks are otherwise fully three-dimensional: in that example, the demons do not intercept all the bullets, it just seems that way because missed shots will (due to their downward trajectory) impact the canyon wall instead of passing over it to potentially hit the player; and the demons also will not be autoaimed at in the first place if their altitude places them out of sight of the shooter, in which case bullets (and projectiles) will pass harmlessly above them.

[Mr. Freeze]

Our house

In the middle of the map

Our house

In the middle of the map

 

[Gokuma]

Doom is 8D.

 

8===D

 

 

It is 8D though.  ;P

Edited December 6, 2020 by Gokuma

[DNSKILL5]

Thanks for sharing this. I personally love his maps. I don’t really care why others don’t. They’re fun for me, and it was very neat to see some of his inspiration in real life. 

[Caffeine Freak]

Pretty surreal walkthrough. I really like Sandy's personality. Easy to see how he added a certain spice to id in their early days.

[Maximum Matt]

That's pretty frickin' cool, bro

[Pixelated Sapphire]

That's so cool! If I ever make a Doom map I'm gonna base it off some irl locations.

[Soundblock]

On 12/6/2020 at 3:49 AM, Caffeine Freak said:

Pretty surreal walkthrough. I really like Sandy's personality. Easy to see how he added a certain spice to id in their early days.

 

Hell yeah. Might have helped that Sandy was a friggin legend before he walked in the door at id. Weren't that many RPG laureates around that time, but he was one of them. The only id guy I was familiar with before Wolfenstein & Doom came along - I used one of his creature books as inspiration for D&D shenanigan in the mid/late-80s:

 

 

...which lead me to believe that he had a hand in fine tuning the uncanny health/damage game balance in Doom, which Romero confirmed upon enquiry back in the 90s. Might have been a leading question as I've later read stuff to the contrary, but who knows.

[Mr. Freeze]

Sandy Petersen is as important to Cthulhu tabletop as Dennis Detwiller. The man made Call of Cthulhu, arguably the most recognizable tabletop RPG behind D&D. He's insanely knowledgeable on the Mythos and his influence spilled into Doom 2's monster design- he designed the Archvile (which is probably why ol' Archy looks more alien than demon). 

[The Lone Wolf]

Poor man, He is showing real world locations where he used in his maps to people to prove it. This is like, you make a joke and nobody laughs ,then you start to explain the joke to them.