So I'm Currently Playing Doom 3...

[A Nobody]

I want to say this. It's not Doom, but it is a very good first person shooter on its own. Had this been called something else, it would have been received better by people. It could have been its own series alongside Wolfenstein and Doom. Definitely get Doom 3.

[seed]

Not at all, if it was called any different, I think the reception would have been different but for the worse.

 

The actual gunplay is too subpar for it to get a better reception, the atmosphere and sound design alone are not enough to save it, and I am sure there is some bias in its favor precisely because it's a Doom game.

 

Had it been something else, it would have fallen into obscurity very quickly and be remembered as little more than an average sci fi shooter that looked great for its time, but not play equally well.

Edited January 3, 2021 by seed

[Mraka]

I actually like Doom 3, even as a Doom game. It's hard not to like it when you look at the bigger picture. Doom 3 helped future games learn from it's mistakes, and after playing Doom 1, 2 and 64 for so much, a change of style can't hurt that much can it?

 

We can't hide behind sprites anymore, and we're not this super badass soldier. In 3 we're just a random marine in a dark environment. As if we were thrown in there ourselves and given a gun and orders. Rushing in will get you killed, we want to duck for cover, hide and even prepare both mentally and in game.

 

But i can see why people dislike that, Doom started out as intense, fast and epic. You were a legendary soldier, not some random space marine just trying to survive.

[A Nobody]

1 minute ago, Mraka said:

I actually like Doom 3, even as a Doom game. It's hard not to like it when you look at the bigger picture. Doom 3 helped future games learn from it's mistakes, and after playing Doom 1, 2 and 64 for so much, a change of style can't hurt that much can it?

 

We can't hide behind sprites anymore, and we're not this super badass soldier. In 3 we're just a random marine in a dark environment. As if we were thrown in there ourselves and given a gun and orders. Rushing in will get you killed, we want to duck for cover, hide and even prepare both mentally and in game.

 

But i can see why people dislike that, Doom started out as intense, fast and epic. You were a legendary soldier, not some random space marine just trying to survive.

Actually you were a normal soldier in Classic Doom. You're basically a god in the new reboots.

[Mraka]

21 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

Actually you were a normal soldier in Classic Doom. You're basically a god in the new reboots.

Oh i know that, but to be fair, Doomguy was never "normal", even before becoming a god. He'd mop the floor with the Doom 3 marine.

[Tetzlaff]

Why would you say that? He just shoots with the guns he finds and occasionally with his fists. No super powers involved.

[Silhouette 03]

15 hours ago, Tetzlaff said:

Why would you say that? He just shoots with the guns he finds and occasionally with his fists. No super powers involved.

His speed is superhuman, much faster than the Doom 3 marine  and he's immune to fall damage. Also he doesn't make Arnold schwarzenegger noises when he dies.

[Tetzlaff]

This is because it's a game. The Doom 3 marine is able to carry 10 weapons at once, can instantly heal heavy injuries with a magical medipack and so on.

 

The story of Doom 1 describes the protagonist as a regular marine, basicly the same like in Doom 3. Only Doom 2016 introduced the whole angry superhero thing.

[Silhouette 03]

Just now, Tetzlaff said:

This is because it's a game. The Doom 3 marine is able to carry 10 weapons at once, can instantly heal heavy injuries with a magical medipack and so on.

 

The story of Doom 1 describes the protagonist as a regular marine, basicly the same like in Doom 3. Only Doom 2016 introduced the whole angry superhero thing.

I just pointed out that the Classic doom marine has better speed and agility, friend. I'm just tying the gameplay to his traits. In story terms, they are both regular marines. In gameplay, They both have super-human abilities. 

[QuaketallicA]

I think a lot of Doom fans now have a different perspective than perhaps when Doom 3 came out. (Though I'm aware it got a lot of flak even at the time).

 

Like Tetzlaff said, the original Doom soldier was just an ordinary human. Just some non-descript marine, and you were the one Doomed. It was very much keeping in theme with the sort of themes in darker metal and grunge of the early 90s. You are all alone, doomed, and surrounded on all sides by demons out to get you. That you actually survived the forces of hell no mortal should have to face is what makes you an impressive action hero.

 

I've since come around to liking the new Doom's power-fantasy Slayer/God version of the Doom Guy because he's also badass af in his own right, but it's a very different take on the series' protagonist.

 

What I found so impressive about the original Doom when I first played it, was the level of immersion from the engine and photo-realistic weapon sprites, as well as the atmosphere created by the horror, and of course the stellar level design and satisfying gunplay. Doom 3 really took the level of immersion to a whole new height, and it still holds up very well as a result, like the original game. The horror is also at a whole new level, thanks to improvements in technology since 1993, but the fast and frenetic gameplay took a backseat, which is understandable given the focus on a more realistic vision of Doom.

 

Doom 2016 and Eternal have brought the gameplay back to the forefront, going for a more classic/arcadey sort of feel, while traditional non-linear level design and immersion take the backseat. They're all Doom, but each highlights and focuses on a different key aspect of the originals.

Edited March 7, 2021 by QuaketallicA

[Cacodoomonic]

Unpopular view I know, but Doom 3 for me is exactly what Doom was always meant to be and in my view, the route it should have continued with. Why?

 

Because I was introduced to Doom through the PS1. Doom 3 is the logical next step to PS1 Doom so to me, Doom 3 is the perfect sequel. 

 

Also, it's in my top 10 favourite horror games no question.

[Koko Ricky]

The flashlight was an idea that made sense in a game like Silent Hill, where you play as a civilian. But when you're playing as a space marine in the future, you have to ignore the fact that patents for weapon-mounted lights are over a century old, and its lack of inclusion is phenomenally stupid. The only justification for making it a separate item is that it shows off the engine's dynamic lighting. It fails as a gameplay gimmick for the same reason that a future space marine only has enough stamina to slowly run a few meters before getting tired, or can wear armor that remains at 99% after a heavy blow crushes your health to -50. They're just not good ideas. The fact that they make the game harder isn't justification; you could nerf Mario's jump to make it harder, but that isn't fun. It's bad design.

Edited May 15, 2021 by GoatLord

[Tetzlaff]

On 5/15/2021 at 4:09 AM, GoatLord said:

The flashlight was an idea that made sense in a game like Silent Hill, where you play as a civilian. But when you're playing as a space marine in the future, you have to ignore the fact that patents for weapon-mounted lights are over a century old, and its lack of inclusion is phenomenally stupid.

 

Similar to Silent Hill (but of course to a lesser degree), Doom 3 has an emphasis on horror and the limited flashlight ability works well in that regard.

 

You always have to balance out "realism"/creating a believable game world and gameplay. Having unlimited flashlight would spoil the tension. Other FPS games limit the flashlight for the same reason, Half-Life 2 for example has a flashlight were the power drains after a few seconds and then slowly recharges. Also highly unrealistic. I like Doom 3's solution better.

 

On 5/15/2021 at 4:09 AM, GoatLord said:

The only justification for making it a separate item is that it shows off the engine's dynamic lighting.

 

And, like in their previous titles, id Software went creative with new features like that and created some inventive scenarious around it. There is the section were a scientist NPC guides you through darkness with a lantern, and you have to kill the attacking demons. Would be completely pointless if you could just switch your weapon-mounted flashlight on. Or that section were some moving, glowing energy rods are the only light source.

[Koko Ricky]

I agree that from a pure design perspective, this all makes sense. I also agree that high realism is not only not a goal in most games, but it can be detrimental to gameplay. But a design choice should feel natural, even if it isn't entirely logical. The flashlight feels...like a solid mechanic from a different kind of game. 

 

That said, what would have replaced it? Perhaps a drone with a mounted light that you could deploy with F, which would take awhile to ready itself while requiring regular chargups at certain computer stations...although in the brief Hell section, this would mean either no chargeup stations or some kind of silly "hell charge," whatever that would be. Which then makes me think, "Is this a complicated workaround for a mechanic you don't like?"