An experiment/exercise where I try to save state slots in DeHackEd

[Ar_e_en]

A while ago, I asked some people what color should the Baron fireballs be. The reason why I asked that is because I wanted to do a little DeHackEd experiment - I wanted to see how many object states I could free up in DeHackEd while still keeping the game visually similar to the original (or at least as close as possible) and the Baron fireball being green interfered with this due to the DeHackEd color switching options. I did this mostly as an exercise for future DeHackEd projects.

 

By using the two color options, modifying some sprites in GIMP and by replacing some of the various states with already existing states - I managed to save the following states:

 

I also made a test map for map01 and e1m8 that showcases some of the visual changes in a .wad file that can be used with both DOOM 1 and 2 (Screenshots made with Woof):

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

There was one oddity that showed up during this, like if I test e1m8 with The Ultimate DOOM in PrBoom-Plus or Woof - the Hell Knight won't show up even tho I changed it so he would share all the sprites and states (with the exception of the death state due to the tag 666 shenanigans) with the Baron of Hell, but he will show up in GZDoom. I'm not actually worried about this because Hell Knights don't appear in The Ultimate DOOM (even tho most source-ports contain all the non-visual data needed for DOOM 2 monsters).

 

Anyway, here's the file if you're interested (edit: touched up the Baron sprite a bit):

 

 

DehTestV2.zip

Edited January 5, 2021 by Ar_e_en

[fabian]

There is no Hell Knight in Doom 1, it was one of the new monsters in Doom 2. 

[Ar_e_en]

Yes, but the original .exe for The Ultimate DOOM (as well as any source-port that can play The Ultimate DOOM) contains data (that isn't visual or auditory) for all the DOOM 2 monsters, this is actually one of the reasons why REKKR can have player-seeking projectiles and monsters with resurrection powers even tho it runs on The Ultimate DOOM or Freedoom Phase 1 Iwads.

 

Note that I write "The Ultimate DOOM" and not "DOOM 1".

 

Although, there is another oddity that I noticed: the player plasma rifle in my wad fires the Arachnotron projectile in both DOOM 2 and The Ultimate DOOM despite the fact that Arachnotron projectiles shouldn't visually exist in The Ultimate DOOM.

[Ar_e_en]

I just checked The Ultimate DOOM iwad, turns out that there IS an Arachnotron projectile in the iwad (there is also a Mancubus fireball and a few other DOOM 2 sprites), but there are no Arachnotrons. I guess the id guys forgot to delete a few things when compiling The Ultimate DOOM iwad, or maybe the original .exe would crash if some of the sprites were missing.

[fabian]

All the necessary code pointers are there, but the monstets won't get spawned:

 

https://github.com/chocolate-doom/chocolate-doom/blob/b26157aca5b12049b35d8dfcf969c51967a369f6/src/doom/p_setup.c#L362

[Ar_e_en]

So the "commercial" value is determined by the iwad right? And that's why even on specific source-ports (excluding GZDoom) the specific monsters or other entities won't spawn right?

[fabian]

Yep, in Doom source code, "commercial" means any flavor of Doom 2. 

[Ar_e_en]

Okay! In other words anything occupying the following states:

	      case 68:	// Arachnotron
	      case 64:	// Archvile
	      case 88:	// Boss Brain
	      case 89:	// Boss Shooter
	      case 69:	// Hell Knight
	      case 67:	// Mancubus
	      case 71:	// Pain Elemental
	      case 65:	// Former Human Commando
	      case 66:	// Revenant
	      case 84:	// Wolf SS

Won't be spawned, even if I replace them with anything custom.

[P41R47]

1 minute ago, Ar_e_en said:

Okay! In other words anything occupying the following states:

	      case 68:	// Arachnotron
	      case 64:	// Archvile
	      case 88:	// Boss Brain
	      case 89:	// Boss Shooter
	      case 69:	// Hell Knight
	      case 67:	// Mancubus
	      case 71:	// Pain Elemental
	      case 65:	// Former Human Commando
	      case 66:	// Revenant
	      case 84:	// Wolf SS

Won't be spawned, even if I replace them with anything custom.

Thats how REKKR did it magic, i think.

Having a lot of non usable monsters and a lot of states to use, Revae mixed cookies, sugar, and a lot of funky colours until the mysterious substance x accidentally drop into the mix and those awful nightmares spread throught the land of REKKR.
:P

[SilverMiner]

If you stick to Doom 2, you can use Pain Elemental's resurrect states. That's some of frames

[Ar_e_en]

17 hours ago, SilverMiner said:

If you stick to Doom 2, you can use Pain Elemental's resurrect states. That's some of frames

True, but technically speaking the Archvile CAN resurrect a Pain Elemental through some crusher shenanigans, this is a rarity and a bug, but it can happen and people have used this trick in the past.