Should I play Valiant or Eviternity first?

[StoneMason]

5 hours ago, TheMightyHeracross said:

While I practically worship AV, I question the idea that players should feel obligated to start with the old stuff just for the sake of it.

I do agree that players shouldn't feel obligated to start with older wads, but I think Alien Vendetta is still a solid enough choice for someone new to pwads. It's a bit dated and less polished when compared to more modern wads, but it definitely holds up a lot better than stuff like Memento Mori or Hell Revealed, too.

[seed]

Yes indeed. AV has its own problems and underwhelming maps, but it has aged pretty well and manages to still shine up to this day.

 

Older wads like MM, yeah... time was... really not kind to them... Though I will argue HR also aged well, alongside AV.

[Doomkid]

I will defend Memento Mori to the grave! A stellar adventure of classic Doom.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Doomkid

[ReaperAA]

Agreed with Stonemason and Seed that MM hasn't aged as well. I had recently (as in within the last 1-2 years) played MM for the first time and almost half of its maps felt very underwhelming to me as well as issues like not being able to get 100% secrets on them. The Casali maps and Map28 were the only good standouts for me. So yeah, I recommend newcomers to play newer wads over MM as they are generally much more polished.

 

^{plz don't kill me Doomkid}

Edited January 8, 2021 by ReaperAA

[Silhouette 03]

1 minute ago, ReaperAA said:

plz don't kill me Doomkid

It’s not him you have to worry about *flexes non-existent muscles*.

[seed]

17 minutes ago, Silhou3tte said:

It’s not him you have to worry about *flexes non-existent muscles*.

 

*roundhouse kicks you through the window from third floor.*

[Deadwing]

I would go first with Scythe (the first one) or BTSX1, which aren't as hard as Eviternity or Valiant. But between these two, I would go first with Eviternity, which is easier.

 

I didn't enjoy AV at all lol (or anything before it) but as a early wad to play it might be a good choice, I guess.

[StoneMason]

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I will defend Memento Mori to the grave! A stellar adventure of classic Doom.

Don't get me wrong. I have a special place in my heart for it, as it was one of my first ever megawads I played when I was little. I still do enjoy playing it sometimes myself. But it's basically the definition of a 90's megawad, and unless someone is specifically interested in a 90's pwad, they might not get much out of it, unfortunately.

2 hours ago, seed said:

Though I will argue HR also aged well, alongside AV.

Yeah, It does have a lot of good maps that hold up really well, especially later on. I mean after all, Alien Vendetta straight up has a couple that are clearly influenced by them. But I reckon there's also a lot of maps that can easily feel dated, especially in the early third, when compared to Alien Vendetta.

[seed]

Yeah, agreed. Not too bad, though a bit boring and bland at times, but they definitely exhibit a lot of aspects specific to that era of mapping they're coming from.

 

Not necessarily a bad thing in this case, if something works, then it works, so no big deal.

[Doomkid]

I couldn’t help derailing this with my MM comment, lol.. I will say that people who are into more refined Doom wads (for lack of a better word) probably should play other stuff besides MM. I just love those 90’s maps. Plus the custom textures are generally still great!

[dmslr]

I'm glad that MM was my first pwad :)

[ReaperAA]

17 hours ago, Deadwing said:

I would go first with Scythe (the first one) or BTSX1, which aren't as hard as Eviternity or Valiant.

 

Scythe gets much harder than Eviternity from Map21 onwards. I agree with BTSX E1 though, that one is not a hard wad.

Edited January 9, 2021 by ReaperAA

[Silhouette 03]

20 hours ago, seed said:

 

*roundhouse kicks you through the window from third floor.*

Ha! Fall damage is off!

[seed]

1 hour ago, Silhou3tte said:

Ha! Fall damage is off!

 

It matters not, you fell into a not-so-big pit, but there's no way to climb back up :p.

[Silhouette 03]

17 minutes ago, seed said:

 

It matters not, you fell into a not-so-big pit, but there's no way to climb back up :p.

Ha! I’m out of ideas!

[whybmonotacrab]

21 hours ago, Deadwing said:

I would go first with Scythe (the first one) or BTSX1, which aren't as hard as Eviternity or Valiant. But between these two, I would go first with Eviternity, which is easier. 

I think Eviternity is easier than BTSX1, or at the very least, it's more immediately accessible. I know, because Eviternity and BTSX1 were two of the first megawads I finished. BTSX1's level 1 SSG secret was a rude wake up call, map 4's cacodemon and archvile combo trap ruined me for quite a while, map 5's cyb doesn't fuck around, and map 6's 6 archviles are a serious threat for newcomers.

 

 Eviternity on the other hand stays fairly easy for it's first 10 levels with the occasional spike. It gets harder than BTSX1 eventually but it's much easier to get into.

[Cosmian]

I played Scythe, and I'm fairly certain I got to MAP30. But I couldn't beat it (big suprise). I forgot to mention that one in my original post. I've been working my way through AV, its a good time. It feels kind of a similar style in terms of visual design to P:AR. This thread really exploded!

Edited January 12, 2021 by minebolt
fixed a typo

[Bauul]

4 hours ago, minebolt said:

I played Scythe, and I'm fairly certain I got to MAP30. But I couldn't beat it (big suprise). 

 

Yeah whoever says Scythe is easy has clearly blanked out Map30. It goes from tight, taught maps to EPIC SLAUGHTER in basically no time at all. I think Map 30 took me longer to beat than the whole of the rest of the mapset.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Bauul

[Silhouette 03]

33 minutes ago, Bauul said:

 

Yeah whoever says Scythe is easy has clearly blanked out Map30. It goes from tight, taught maps to EPIC SLAUGHTER in basically no time at all. I think Map 30 took me longer to beat than the whole of the rest of the mapset.

I went and ragequit on map 30. A slaughtermap feels so out of place in a megawad where the maps are made intentionally shorter to create a sense of flow( I know that sounds cheesy, but bear with me). Map 28  is far worse due to it’s stupid gimmick, and map 29 is just not fun at all( way too may cyberdemons and no enough ammunition ).

[Gez]

On samedi 9 janvier 2021 at 11:44 AM, whybmonotacrab said:

Eviternity on the other hand stays fairly easy for it's first 10 levels with the occasional spike. It gets harder than BTSX1 eventually but it's much easier to get into.

I remember MAP05 being quite hard with its big horde fight. Lots of Hell knights, nightmare demons, sprinkled with a few revenants and an arch-vile or two.

 

Though it may have been toned down a bit since I played an RC version, not the final.

[ReaperAA]

50 minutes ago, Gez said:

I remember MAP05 being quite hard with its big horde fight. Lots of Hell knights, nightmare demons, sprinkled with a few revenants and an arch-vile or two.

 

Though it may have been toned down a bit since I played an RC version, not the final.

 

Yes it was toned down in the final version (there are no cacodemons in final version of that level unlike in RC1). Also even in RC1, it was still much easier compared to the cacodemon + archvile trap on Map04 BTSX E1.

[Pixel Fiend]

I've been playing some Valiant maps recently - at first they seemed boring but soon later started to click. They hold interesting surprises and fun sections to speedrun or speed-clear through. What bugged me was the music, which I found rather jarring. But then I resolved to find a soundfont that makes it less so and it seems that Mustheory2 really does the trick. I also made a custom light sector with darkdoomz mod which actually makes it look like nighttime without having to use the flashlight to see clearly.