"New year, new URE" - URE:E2 - E2M2 up!

[Omniarch]

1 minute ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Current speed: Glacial.

If that's the case then my work ethic is downright tectonic xD

 

I'm still glad to see your updates, however brief :) When and if I finally get underway with my project, I plan on following your example by posting about my progress in a *hopefully* amusing and entertaining way.

[Zylinderkatze]

5 minutes ago, Omniarch said:

I plan on following your example

You honor me xD I hope it'll help you and work out for you :D

 

It does help to motivate me.. when I write about what I'm doing and what problems I run into and (hopefully) how I solve them..

 

Though I did find that a lot if the motivation of URE2020 came from the "historic" (sentimental) value that it had for me. URE2021 is slightly less so, with only one map surviving from the originals instead of all nine. And that map being from 2010 instead of 1995-1997. To be sure, I am looking forward to recreating that one map that was lost to the gods of decay and entropy: The fabled E2M8, which was kind of a refined reprise of E1M7. 

 

But on the way to E2M8 there's still some ways to go from E2M1.. I believe once E2M1 is done I'll go through those stacks of paper (with my old ideas and concepts) and perhaps document my process on her; Of sorting through them and working out a narrative.. there will be a lot of scribbling involved! 

 

I'm not sure whether that's a good thing xD

[Zylinderkatze]

Scanning. Please wait . . .

 

I am *drumnroll* finally digitizing my old drawings with ideas for DOOM (some of which even explicitly pointing out that they're ideas for "URE Ep 2").. and here is one of the oldest sheets I found. Well- a small part of it, at least. As a sneak preview of sorts, for your viewing.. pleasure..?

 

^{5th of February 1996! O_O}

 

That's why it's always a nice touch to date your scribbles (no.. not that kind of dating). You might think "why should I date this.. it's only for now and I know what date today is".. but then you look back a mere 25 years later and are surprised.. mainy about how your drawing skill didn't improve since then xD
 

I'm currently on page 27. Not all of them are full page lists of ideas, though.. some are the size of a post-it ^^;

 

I'll probably use that stash of freshly scanned in drawings as "idea to actual level" side-by-side views, once I get to them.

 

I'm a little excited c:

[ketmar]

7 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I'll probably use that stash of freshly scanned in drawings as "idea to actual level" side-by-side views, once I get to them.

yay! i don't know why, but i found this idea prolly even more interesting than actually playing the maps. maybe because playing is a kind of work too, and looking at the pictures is much easier...

[Zylinderkatze]

Look what I found (Part 2?)

 

From the Zylinderkatze who brought you "The disk from the cellar".. here comes..

 

THE DOUBLE CD FROM THE DISK BOX

^{Hm.. the first movie was better.}

 

I found it in an old CD storage container which people used to have at their computers.. when people still had CDs :D

 

Haven't tried to read it yet.

 

"It this": https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/utilities-for-doom-doom-ii

 

Spoiler

 

Sad.

 

[ketmar]

each time you're gettimg something from the past, we're getting a new mapset. let's see if it will work this way this time.

[Zylinderkatze]

4 hours ago, ketmar said:

each time you're gettimg something from the past, we're getting a new mapset. let's see if it will work this way this time.

 

Well if I remember correctly, these CDs contain some very early TCs as well as a bunch of "shovelware" WADs.. I don't think I ever tried them all back then but I remember many of the ones I tried.. um.. didn't make me lose my confidence about my mapping skills..? ^^;

 

Maybe I'll load them up and check them out to see whether my memory serves me well.

 

I'll be back to mapping this week, btw. Just had kind of a busy last week, work wise.

[Zylinderkatze]

He sleep. He dream.

 

He draw weird stuff and then post it online.

^{Some ideas involving demons of the cyber variety.}

 

Last night I hat one of the rare cases where I actually dream of a whole chain of events regarding reveal, presentation and enemy engagement ^^

 

As in.. experiencing the architecture, walking outside through a narrow passage, approaching a "thing of importance" (which is by itself being revealed in a grand way) and upon picking it up then sets off the reveal of two cyberdemons in the distance. Kind of classic / cliché "you want this? then fight for it".

 

As you see that they have the higher ground and that the place where you're standing isn't putting you at an advantage you run back inside, only to realize that the cyberdemons teleport closer and closer in steps.. until they are inside with you O_o

 

My dream ended there.. maybe I ate too many rockets xD

 

Either way, it was kind of creepy / scary.

 

I hope I can manage to recreate that "vision".. because by the time I scribbled it down, a bunch of the details (of the inside layout) were already kind of hazy.

 

But it was good to dream Doom again! x3

[Zylinderkatze]

BTW!

 

I have decided to use the last post's idea for my submission to the Maximus Project 2021 (https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/119524).

 

So you might see it before URE2021. Perhaps. I dunno man. Stop pushing me! D:

 

 

In other words: I am still not really actively "Dooming", although I did map out the starting room of E2M9 yesterday because I couldn't stop thinking about it xD

 

[Zylinderkatze]

2 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I am still not really actively "Dooming"

 

Though now, after saying that.. I kind of feel like mapping that Maximus thing. Hmm.

 

I'll keep my mentions of that in this thread to a minimum, though.. if I do get carried away with wanting to write about it, I might make a dedicated thread for it though~

[Zylinderkatze]

23 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

I kind of feel like mapping that Maximus thing.

 

^Oops..?

 

I'll actually post no further Maximus content here though. Maybe this one will progress without any "dev blog" at all xD

[ketmar]

12 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Maybe this one will progress without any "dev blog" at all xD

but...why?! it won't be a true Zylinderkatze map then! ;-)

[Zylinderkatze]

On 5/9/2021 at 6:44 PM, ketmar said:

but...why?! it won't be a true Zylinderkatze map then! ;-)

 

Hehe. You are right of course!

 

I'll make a thread in case I feel like I need to / want to post more :)

Edited May 10, 2021 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

It happened again

 

I sat down at 8pm or so yesterday evening, just fidgeting with E2M1.. and suddenly it was 3am.

 

I think I am hot on the heels of discovering time travel!

[Zylinderkatze]

It was much, much too late last night..

 

..so the screenshots comparing stuff are coming in now!

 

This is all still very much WIP but this is the (current) first look you get once you leave the inside area that your ship crashed into:

^{The shadow in the lower right corner is from the door-outcrop}

 

And this is what this angle looked like in 2010:

^{So much less.. well.. everything!}

 

The reason why I can even add this much (sensible?) detail is because the crashed landing ship (so.. not a landing ship) has been removed, seeing how I will relocate it into the inside area, behind a pile of rubble ^^

 

However, neither the "crashed-into" wall, not the debris around it is really done, so I will likely still have to push a few vanilla limits ^^;

 

This is where it's at right now:

^{Despite the glory of FIREBLU1, it's only a "WIP" placeholder. Sorry.}

 

Basically, the idea is that you start inside that building we're looking at in that last screenshot. The SUPPORT2 texture on the left is the door through which you exit that area.

 

Still a long way to go.

 

Oh- also, that courtyard area isn't the only thing I wast~.. spent those 6 hours on last night.. but everything else is detailing and some "prevent premature line action opportunities" fixes.

 

More on that later, perhaps.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Zylinderkatze

[ketmar]

46 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Despite the glory of FIREBLU1, it's only a "WIP" placeholder. Sorry.

FUREBLU is great! best Doom texture ever!

[Zylinderkatze]

17 hours ago, ketmar said:

best Doom texture ever

 

I do have a few "ecclectic texture use" ideas for a bonus level.. but this is one of the cases where I actually already do know that it's been done before (and likely much better than I could), so it will not be (entirely) FIREBLU1-related ^^;

[Zylinderkatze]

There's a special place in hell for people who quote their own posts..

 

18 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

 

I just realized how much a screenshot like this (of an "in progress" area) helps me to.. well.. visualize how I would change it and what can and has to be adjusted. 

 

The choice of the "64 x 64 grey slabs" texture (not at my "mapping PC" so I don't know the name ^^) in the middle of the crashed-into structure, for example, is very deliberate. I want to make it look like some of those slabs were dislodged / fell off through the crash.. (one of them is already "mapped out" on the floor for reference) and looking at this screenshot helps me picture how & where I would & will put the actual "point of impact"

 

No new screenshot (again, I'm not at my mapping PC). But since this is practically my diary, I figured I could add a though blurb like this xD

[Zylinderkatze]

"lol"

 

So.. I was starting to get suspicious of how the DrawSegs / Visplane Explorer was looking.. too good to be real, with hardly any "heat". Then I realized why. I was in Visplane mode. Then I switched to DrawSegs and died a little.

 

I already removed a bunch of detail I had previously added but it's still above the limit:

^{260/256 and that's without any of the details I'm adding to the "crash wall"}

 

So.. say goodbye to this "tower" of sorts:

^{(it's really only a "housing" for a secret area, accessible from elsewhere)}

 

The only reason why I built a higher structure there was for "logical" reasons, because the secret behind it is 128+ units higher than the floor of this outside area. But instead I'll just change that secret area (lowered instead of elevated). No one will ever know! Except from you.. but I trust you.

 

Another reason why that building was starting to give me a headache is because you can walk around that "crashed-into" building in the middle (in that last screenshot it's off to the right).. because once you're on the other side of it, the players line of sight would reveal the way I created that "broken ceiling"..

 

Here's what I mean:

^{Everything right of the arrow is a lowered ceiling (Vanilla trickery ftw)}

 

If the player walks any further to the right, the top of the "tower" in the background would be cut off by the lowered ceiling's skybox.

 

I already started using "the usual tricks" to force the player to not be able to walk back this far, thus eliminating a line-of-sight to that tower.. but all that I add would also potentially add to the number of Segs so.. yeah. The tower needs to go. Sorry.

 

Last screenshot:

^{"Added for various reasons".}

 

This outcrop with the door is the triangle in the "lower left quarter" of the heatmap above.. and I assume that if I add a wall or just generally pull it forward into the outside area more, I'll effectively add a little more sight-line blocking and alleviate the Seg Density.. I'll save that for later, though. Maybe removing that tower will already help enough.

 

In the background: A shy, lone container, my second attempt of blocking the player's path, due to the above-mentioned sight line stuff.

 

Though.. even if I will not need the container anymore, I realized that I do enjoy that splash of "color" in the otherwise rather grey outside area. I may still leave it in or add something else there of a similar non-grey-ness.

 

Leaving it in would also make sure the "time to first crate" count of this map stays low :D

Edited May 18, 2021 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

Last post before bed.. post?

 

No "before" this time.. it's just a last look at the level before going to bed, for me. This is the last room I worked on today!

 

^{"No monsters"}

 

The.. let's call it a problem.. I'm having: The more I transition to adding detail with actual sectors, the less "comfortable" I am with using scene dressing items like the Tech Pillar.

 

Now that I think about it, I guess particularly the Tech Pillar, actually. But maybe also some of the other pillars. However, anything "body-related" (dead monsters, hanging bodies) I am okay with. Trees, too.

 

Any thoughts? How do you handle / use / feel about scenery items (of the "non-former-living" variety)?

 

Goodnight!

[Soulless]

4 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Any thoughts? How do you handle / use / feel about scenery items (of the "non-former-living" variety)?

 

I usually put pillars or floor lamps inside little squares and then "melt" them into the geometry so the dont mess with he player navigation,

but also depends on how cramped you want the room and how is going to affect any trap or monster situation.

I think placing a few dead players around monster corpses always work for "enviromental story".

[ketmar]

34 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Any thoughts? How do you handle / use / feel about scenery items (of the "non-former-living" variety)?

lamps! more lamps! we need dynamic lighting!

[Zylinderkatze]

9 hours ago, Soulless said:

"enviromental story"

 

Agreed on what you said, especially that last bit ^^

 

With "blocking" scenery I tend to move them out of the way at least a "smidge", sometimes pushing them into the wall a little (or into a dedicated outcrop in the wall). Make them look more like they actually "dialogue" with their environment.

 

I think it's just an ongoing process for me, to ask myself whether I am using the options at my disposal effectively.

 

I've been inspired, recently, by an unintentional Lamp placement, to use them as potential vertical pipes / supports.. you know, when their top isn't visible.

 

However, that wouldn't work for advanced ports that automatically apply a light emitter to lamps.

 

That said, though..

 

9 hours ago, ketmar said:

we need dynamic lighting!

 

..I do want to check out k8vavoom ^^;

 

What's the latest stable build? k8vavoom_560511.7z?

Edited May 19, 2021 by Zylinderkatze

[ketmar]

5 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

..I do want to check out k8vavoom ^^;

 

What's the latest stable build? k8vavoom_560511.7z? 

yeah. that topic is Official, it always contains the latest stable build. and i am usually pushing out a new one each one or two monthes. i recently added 3d polyobjects, for example, so you can create moving and rotating 3d structures now.

[Zylinderkatze]

Taking a break from E2M1..

 

..and instead quickly jotting down the idea for E2M8. The map that was originally already 1/5th done but lost to the angry gods of hard drive failures in 2010 ^^;

 

This came from a "revelation" of sorts that I had, about how you'd get there.. but I'll leave that part up for when I actually get to this part of the episode.

 

This is the central hub, not counting towards the "1/5th":

^{I might've gotten a bit carried away with the scenery things xD}

 

Nowhere near done.. but thanks to my (slightly?) improved mapping prowess, I wouldn't even mind leaving it somewhere near this, complexity wise..

 

Spoiler

 

..also because I am already touching the limits again~

^{Thankfully, you can't really leave the midway circle anyways ^^;}

 

And with this surprise reveal, I am off to bed!

 

 

Goodnight x3

Edited May 20, 2021 by Zylinderkatze

[ketmar]

that visplane/seg rendering looks like a great texture, btw. ;-)

[Zylinderkatze]

11 hours ago, ketmar said:

looks like a great texture

 

I thought it was strangely pretty, that's one of the reasons I shared it ^^

 

 

Some more thoughts on the image:

 

If you look closely, there's a single green circle around the outside of the 5 blocks in the heatmap. That line is a teleporter line that sends you back to the center (it's all a giant raised tower structure and as soon as you hop off the edge you're teleported back).

 

I was going to have 2 height levels (basically a lowered outer ring around the main tower structure with goodies on it) but then I saw the heatmap and quickly abandoned that thought.

 

Frankly, this starting room alone is almost enough for me to consider going "limit removing" because it saddens me a little to not be able to add any details.

 

However I am sure there are still a bunch of ways in which I can improve this first draft to lower the visible area / lines / sectors and add some leeway for detail. I already reduced the "structural fidelity" of the outer wall (meaning.. I removed a few lines xD).. I might reduce them further and instead of a circle (currently with only 32 sides) make it a giant pentagon shape (with.. well.. 5 sides).

 

If all else fails, though, this is the bare minimum if a working prototype and all the functionality I need to make this map finishable is there.

 

It's just not.. as much of a looker.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

Slow day~

 

Worked a bit on E2M2 (yes, that one is outlines as a concept already, too).. however, it's bordering on a "concept, fit for a secret level". By which I mean it's a smidge gadgety. But it might still stay one of the main maps of E2 (even if it might not stay in the M2 slot).. because I already have a gadgety E2M9 lined up, too :D

 

Nevertheless, here's a little bit of progress from E2M1!

^{A little broken but needs more rubble!}

 

But sadly..

^{Maybe not that much more rubble.}

 

I'll look into it more tomorrow ^^;

 

Goodnight!

[ketmar]

ah, stealth links! i found them, can i get my prize?

[Zylinderkatze]

8 hours ago, ketmar said:

prize

 

You get a pile of rubble :D