"New year, new URE" - URE:E2 - E2M2 up!

[Zylinderkatze]

Very slight update.

 

I actually put few smaller ideas into E2M5 to bring some of the "factory" vibe in there ^{[source missing]}

 

And then today I did a little bit of pushing around some stones in E2M6..

 

^{..really barely worth an update. And that's not an understatement.}

 

Also, this is the first time I uploaded a new version of my "URE-E2"-wad to my backup server in a while! Whee!

 

And so I thought I would post an update. Because the sum of my actions today might warrant one.

Also, I just missed you peeps on here! :>

 

I hope things are well.

 

I think for me they are gradually picking back up for once! :D

 

But not now. Now they are lying down.

 

Goodnight!

[Zylinderkatze]

Ah! Another update!

 

So today I went back into E2M5 to "factory up the place", adding this niftly spot:

 

^{It's nifty-er in motion!}

 

..but then that heated the area up too much and I dediced to revert it to just an outcrop with nothing behind it.

 

Sorry! There's Health bonuses though. so.. yay?

 

 

Then I made the mistake of lowering and raising everything in that area that can be raised or lowered..

 

..and this happened:

 

^{Yeah.. I don't know how to tell you this but.. that's too hot.}

 

Part of what raises and lowers is a door that will not be open at the time you are in this "hot spot".. unless you play multiplayer and someone else opens it >_<

 

I'm not sure what to do right now. 

 

Main idea is to introduce some visual obstacle somewhere but I actually like that there are these long sightlines.

 

I really need to work on how much / little detail I put in my maps ^^;;

 

I'll figure something out.

Edited January 30 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

He's flying!

 

So this is the culprit (for the most part):

 

^{So neat :3}

 

This outcrop is visible from the "hot" area in the previous post.

 

So this is the solution (again, for the most part):

 

^{Just some crates hanging out in an- incidentially- 128 unit tall area}

 

It's almost fixes all of the heat problems.. without actually disturbing the vibe of the area.. I think.

 

The heat is now mostly contained "above" (north of) the crates.

 

^{That's managable.. "I can make this disappear" }:3}

 

Or maybe I'll even just put a blocking item there and call it a day ^^;

["JL" was too short]

Using conveniently stacked boxes to hide unsightly areas is also an excellent strategy in your IRL home.

[Zylinderkatze]

20 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

Using conveniently stacked boxes to hide unsightly areas is also an excellent strategy in your IRL home.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about >_>

 

<_<

 

>_>

 

*hides*

 

^{*behind boxes*}

[zokum]

All of the Doom bsp algorithms I have looked at try to produce trees that have good performance, not a low visplane count. I wonder how much better maps could look if they had instead focused on reducing the amount of visplanes. The concept and 'math' around doing that isn't so complicated. Writing the algorithms that do it well is the hard part. At least in my opinion.

[Zylinderkatze]

Hmm.

 

UPDATE: Resolved!

 

I wanted to post on ZDOOM's forum (on the UDB thread), about the persisting "I can't copy & paste combined linedef properties (flags, offset & alignment) anymore" problem that I mentioned a while back..

 

..but I don't have an account there.

 

When I try to make one, I see an error message from the ZDOOM phpBB forum software:

Quote

[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/google/recaptcha/src/ReCaptcha/RequestMethod/Post.php on line 80: file_get_contents(https://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/siteverify): failed to open stream: Connection timed out

 

Anyone here have an account there to relay my troubles? xD

 

I'm grasping at straws but it's really quite frustrating that I can't copy and paste all attributes of one linedef to another anymore like I used to, in visual mode.

^{(selecting / highlighting the lines first (the ones I am copying from, to or both), beforehand doesn't help.. and using CTRL-ALT-V, doesn't work either)}

 

Doing it in steps (texture, then texture alignment, then manually setting the flags) is going to be the death of me.

 

^{Seeing the "no copied properties to apply" message whenever I try.. is making me twitch every time o_<;}

 

And yes, I did try just about any combination of "CTRL", "SHIFT" and "ALT", both during the copy as well as the paste step.

 

Apparently, it seems to be unrelated to the Game Configuration (this one is "GZDOOM: Doom 2 (Doom format)", I usually work in "DOOM: DOOM (Doom format)").

 

I know it used to be possible to copy and paste all flags (like lower / upper unpegged, etc), textures and offsets at once.

 

I think you can reset all potential overrides to keyboard shortcuts by deleting some UDB config file, right?

 

But I did a fresh reinstall (removed it through the "installed software" list thingy in Windows 10).. and that didn't help either.

 

Maybe I'll just pick up woodworking instead.

Edited February 12 by Zylinderkatze
Resolved!

[Zylinderkatze]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:49 AM, zokum said:

All of the Doom bsp algorithms I have looked at try to produce trees that have good performance, not a low visplane count. I wonder how much better maps could look if they had instead focused on reducing the amount of visplanes. The concept and 'math' around doing that isn't so complicated. Writing the algorithms that do it well is the hard part. At least in my opinion.

 

That would be *so* cool.. a "visplane count"-sensible BSP algorithm.. squeezing just those few more potential Segs out of the "Vanilla" environment.

[Zylinderkatze]

13 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

woodworking

that's not meant in a "woodworking is less than" way, of course. More in a "if something doesn't work, at least with wood I'd likely know why".

 

Also, tools wouldn't suddenly stop working the way I'm used to xD

[zokum]

12 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

 

That would be *so* cool.. a "visplane count"-sensible BSP algorithm.. squeezing just those few more potential Segs out of the "Vanilla" environment.

Segs and visplanes are quite different things. As a general rule, fewer visplanes means more segs. More segs is not that big of an issue as too many segs just lead to mostly minor HOMs. That is preferable to bombing out to DOS with a visplane error.

I've ocaasionally been working on a guide on reducing visplanes when mapping. If people know what they are dealing with, it is a lot easier to work around the limitations. Having the tools work in your favor would be an important first step.

The vertex pair algorithm I produced as a proof of concept a few years ago showed that segs is almost a non-issue with better tools. It could be just about all the original id maps with 0-3 extra segs. If you allow for a bit more segs and focus more on reduced vis planes, you should be able to get good results.

The real problem is in making a good metric for how to reduce the amount of vis planes. And preferably fewer vis planes in busy sections of the map. I have an idea about a way you could calculate an estimate, but it is extremely complicated. Basically, each sector has an ideal vis plane configuration, and you would then choose partitions that try not to reduce it from this goal. Rate them on how much of a reduction you have on the ideal configuration.

You would need to write a new bsp algorithm from the ground up to implement what I suggest, and at the moment I just don't have the time and energy for that.

[Zylinderkatze]

2 hours ago, zokum said:

just don't have the time and energy

 

Nobody expects it of you xD

 

It's really cool to hear (read) your thoughts though! :)

[Zylinderkatze]

On 2/5/2024 at 7:04 PM, Zylinderkatze said:

Maybe I'll just pick up woodworking instead.

 

Or, and hear me out here.. or.. I could finally follow this sneaking suspicion I've had for a while.

 

So.. uhm.. I don't think there is a way to say this without outing myself as a noob.. I'll just say it.

 

A while ago I switched to a new graphics card, remember?

 

Silly me didn't deselect the "install [insert fancy gamer-adjacent name here] software" upon installing the drivers..

 

And because silly me never fully realized that that software was there, silly me also never checked what it might do in the background..

 

Do I have to say it?

 

...

 

Can I just show it?

 

^{I don't even have a camera hooked up.}

 

So.. yeah.. no woodworking after all!

 

I'm back bay-be! :D

Edited February 12 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

24 minutes ago, Zylinderkatze said:

Can I just show it?

 

Okay for clarity, I'll also say write it: This keyboard shortcut basically "stole" the focus / attention / keyboard input before it ever got through to UDB, where it would've been the "copy properties" command.

 

So I never copied anything. 

 

Silly silly ZK.

 

Apologies for all the previous "ranting" over something that I should've realized much, much sooner.

Edited February 12 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

And because you've been so patient..

 

..here's a little something something :)

 

^{I know, I know.. nothing big. But I like the lighting :)}

 

This is the current "leaving the starting area" first look.

 

Let's see how that changes.

[Zylinderkatze]

Progressing.. by regressing?

 

I actually removed all of the "premature debri-fication" of that arrival area in E2M6.

 

^{It's not 3D, it's 3d-esque!}

 

In the process I also cleaned up a lot of stuff and added more height variation in sensible ways, dealt with some "repeating texture"-unfriendly spots.. and started scribbling out on a piece of paper, in order to envision how I actually want the whole thing to break down.

 

But it's already 11:30pm so I'll continue tomorrow or something.

 

Goodnight!

[Zylinderkatze]

Sometimes ideas come to you at their own time.

 

So just now while making coffee I had this idea.. what if it's not (just) the marble stones that are breaking through the architecture of the seemingly normal, quite "human in design" structure of E2M6.. but instead an actual visual emissary of things to come later on?

 

I give you..

 

^{Demon slab stuck in traffic.}

 

The marble stones behind it aren't showing the "motion" yet.. but they will!

 

So.. hi, I'm still here ^^;

Edited February 23 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

16 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

an actual visual emissary of things to come

 

Yes I know I'm blowing this up a little too much and it looks almost exactly like the last screenshot, aside from the "Face Slab"..

 

..but to me this was kind of a transformational moment on how to make this area work for me :)

[Zylinderkatze]

Hello hello!

 

It's hard to ignore and impossible to deny, I'm currently not mapping. Too many things distracting me and keeping my attention. Like Helldivers :0

 

You're all in my heart though! Maybe a bit too emotional for a Doomworld post but true nevertheless. I hope all is well.

 

I do have ideas and the occasional "itch" to map but usually when I'm not near my PC. Maaaybe this weekend!

Edited March 24 by Zylinderkatze

[Zylinderkatze]

"Also, .."

 

I should declare more often that I am actually not mapping because of course today I finally felt like mapping again xD

 

BTW, did I mention yet that E2M6 will be very run-down and derelict?

 

Because all the human-made stuff will not be functional (at first). You'll have to find ways around closed doors and such. And this is also the map where I am going to put a underpass lock / airlock / lift system that you will see early on but won't be able to activate until later on.

 

Now let's hope I can make it fun to find the methods to make stuff work again.

 

And find you will have to, implying there will be a bunch of looking involved. In the dark.

 

^{Not dark while mapping, of course. Need to see what I am doing :D}

 

^{..but dark while you're playing.}

 

Granted, as always, this is a very early version with (almost) no detailing, just to "feel out" the space.

 

Also, there will be some scarce light sources, maybe not all of them part of the original human design.

 

Ahem.

 

 

But now I already need to leave. Sensible bedtimes and all.

 

Goodnight!

[Zylinderkatze]

More bright times ahead!

 

I mean.. no. not really. This is the view I'm editing this at. The actual map is.. so dark.

 

^{There will be some lights in that outcrop, drawing your eyes..}

 

..or maybe some eyes, drawing your light?

 

Haha.. no that would be silly.

[Zylinderkatze]

"Ah.. so you actually are kind of doing this.. semi.. regularly again..?"

^{*crosses fingers*}

 

Well.. yes? And no. But also yes.

 

Let's say I am still working on E2M6 but slowly.

 

^{Caution watch your step!}

 

This is a "normal DOOM1 textures" (or rather, "flats") thing that kind of almost works.. mostly because it's dark. The "yellow" in this caution strip is the beige crate top/bottom flat.

 

An alternative (or additional) idea (that I might still go back to if these sectors get too busy for vanilla) was to use the "caution" strip of the CEMENT textures.. as you can see at the bottom of this scribble from 10+ years ago:

 

^{I suppose the caution from the COMP texture might work, too.}

 

I am basically continuing at a different part of the map (as you could also see in the last screenshot I shared), to pass the time until I feel like working on that broken wall in the starting area again ^^;

 

For now, though, I am off to bed.

 

Goodnight, Doomworld!

[Zylinderkatze]

Guess what!

 

I'm sick.

 

And not in the "sick, dude!" way.

 

But guess what else!

 

This morning I woke up after a (potentially "mild fever"-induced) dream and I had a whole map's worth of ideas that all led into each other: An "outside approach area", "anteroom", "minor ambush area with unexpected sector transformation", "Surprise de Baron arena" and even an "outside area with buildings nested into a cliffside". A whole 4 pages worth of scribbles.

 

Strangely enough as I came to, I was under the impression that I already totally knew most of the map and only some details were new. But of course the whole thing is new. Silly half-asleep ZK.

 

So yeah, I'm still here. "Sadly", these ideas do not really mesh with the concept of the rest of URE:E2 so.. 

 

..URE:E3 confirmed?!

 

No. Don't mind me. I am still sick :D

 

But I wanted to say hi!

[Insaneprophet]

Just stopping by to say "get well soon" and I REALLY need to get on top of playing your last set so that I can be ready for this one when its done. I absolutely love the way your mind works and reading every one of your posts! 😀

[Zylinderkatze]

5 hours ago, Insaneprophet said:

Just stopping by to say "get well soon"

 

Thank you!

 

It's just a cold ^^; ..but I am a guy so this might be fatal :0

 

5 hours ago, Insaneprophet said:

I REALLY need to get on top of playing your last set

 

You don't need to do anything! I mean.. it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that you might want to- but you really don't have to :D

 

They are a little obscure at times and my monster placement / enemy encounter design is lacking.. I don't know when that will be but I am very tempted to go back and rework some stuff (maybe in a "non Vanilla safe" edition). Possibly when E2 is done.

 

Ha. "done". HA!

 

5 hours ago, Insaneprophet said:

ready for this one when its done

 

HA! DONE! HAHAHA!

 

I crack myself up.

 

You have so much time left to play URE2020, going by how my progress is with URE:E2 ^^;

 

5 hours ago, Insaneprophet said:

love the way your mind works

 

When it works.

 

..no I am not trying to put words in your mouth xD

 

Legitimately, thank you for your kind words. It means a lot!

["JL" was too short]

21 hours ago, Zylinderkatze said:

You have so much time left to play URE2020, going by how my progress is with URE:E2 ^^;

We don't know how much time we have left!  Play URE2020 tonight, because tomorrow morning you could get hit by a bus.

[Zylinderkatze]

23 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

We don't know how much time we have left!  Play URE2020 tonight, because tomorrow morning you could get hit by a bus.

 

If I was hiring for a Hype Squad, you'd be among the first.

 

Just the right mix of engagement and thinly veiled threats.

[Zylinderkatze]

Yikes

 

So today I realized, that this small(ish) control building that will lower the lift for later progression.. is not as  Ihad originally envisioned it.

 

I mean the one in the outcrop / passage of the screenshot in this post.

 

Because this is how it's angled..

^{Top left: the lift.}

 

Compare the scribble in the scanned image of this post.

 

That's a straight map derived from a 45° angled scribble. That can not stand.

 

So..

 

now it looks like this :D

 

^{Still a lot to do but this removes unnecessary symmetry!}

 

It already feels (even) better to me like this.

[Zylinderkatze]

Progress!

 

I already detailed part of that command room.

 

^{Because that's what I do.}

 

Not done by a long shot. But I couldn't stop after I realigned all those vertexes once the 45° rotation was done.

[Zylinderkatze]

Outcrops 'R' Us

 

Around the corner from that room from the previous post, you can now find this:

 

^{Why so dark D:}

 

It's a "revealed version" of a (semi?)-hidden powerup pickup that was always meant to be part of that control area (in my mind).

You can not really tell that from the scribble here but I either have it in some other scribble.. or it was just still somehow rooted in my memory of what that place should look like.

 

Again, though, this is.. uh.. emblematic? No wait.. symptomatic of the way I usually work and it's a problem:

 

I am pretty good(?) at making areas feel more "lived in" and functional, once I get to work on them.. but I kind of suck at laying out areas to begin with.

 

That's probably a remnant from when I did URE2020, which was mostly based on old existing maps.

 

 

The Remedy?

 

I will try to go back to something that worked pretty well before (in E2M5, for example).. broadly lay out some initial simple rectangular areas to get a feel for the space and then go back in and detail them.

 

I think a problem might also be that E2M6- so far- is based on (too) simple scribbles that didn't quite cover the full breadth of the idea (read: dream) they came from.

 

It's like 10-years-ago me is trying to tell me about a dream he had. It is coming back to me.. but more slowly than I'd like.

 

Anyways, enough babbling. Here have another screenshot!

 

^{Random place from E2M6 to make up for my babbling :D}

 

Not sure howe much longer I'll map today (that said, I might end up mapping until 3am like the good old days xD).. so I'll say goodnight for now!

[Zylinderkatze]

IDEAS!

 

Oh my.

 

So just now I had an idea of how I can make the whole map more interesting. Hopefully "..to play" but certainly "..to make".

 

Remember how the very beginning of it is a scene where that big evil MARBFACE "breaks through the wall"? Of course you remember. That part is "done for now", btw! :3

 

But then I also had the idea of the whole place being "left behind", derelic, right? No power, only emergency lighting, stuff like that. It's all been done, even by me.

 

Thirdly, though, I wanted to have little bits and pieces already looking more demonic than they should. Neat? Neat. Also been done in URE2020.

 

But now.. what if that whole thing was nicely tied together by a "distorted ripples through parts of the map"-effect?

 

I know, I know, also been done. Shut up.

 

It's what brought me back to mapping right now, as I am typing this. Because I am pretty excited to see what those ripples will do to my map. Poor map.

 

More soon!