They Should Stop Using The BFG Edition For Console Releases

[A Nobody]

I played standard Doom 3 and not the BFG Edition, but it's said that the BFG Edition is missing content and is much more easier than the original. Console players miss out on content as a result. Apparently the Xbox One and PS4 versions are missing even more things. The only console to have the original Doom 3 is the original Xbox, but that has a few things taken out because of limitations. Console players need the full Doom 3 experience, and the BFG Edition is not the right way to have it. The original should be an option in the BFG Edition.

Edited January 9, 2021 by The Strife Commando

[Boaby Kenobi]

The BFG version actually offers more content to console users and apart from the loading times on 360 and PS3 it's not that bad really.

[A Nobody]

3 minutes ago, Boaby Kenobi said:

The BFG version actually offers more content to console users and apart from the loading times on 360 and PS3 it's not that bad really.

If you mean the Lost Mission, it's become a mod for standard Doom 3.

[Boaby Kenobi]

I'm talking about the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions. Both those console releases (PC included) also have Doom & Doom II. It was only the limited edition Doom 3 for the original Xbox that offered those two classics as well. I'm not familiar with the PS4, Xbox One or Switch Doom 3 releases.

[A Nobody]

1 hour ago, Boaby Kenobi said:

I'm talking about the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions. Both those console releases (PC included) also have Doom & Doom II. It was only the limited edition Doom 3 for the original Xbox that offered those two classics as well. I'm not familiar with the PS4, Xbox One or Switch Doom 3 releases.

Aaah ok.

[Mr. Freeze]

BFG Edition is automatically invalid for making the flashlight attached to your armor. Combat is so piss easy in BFGE I don't see the appeal at all. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Mr. Freeze

[Lippeth]

I initially bought it on PS3 when it came out, and while playing No Rest for the Living I suddenly remembered that map editors and mods existed and I finally had a computer with reliable internet to be able to experience it all, so I returned the game, bought the original Doom 3 on Steam, pulled the iwads from the Ultimate Doom Trilogy I had installed on an old hard drive and registered an account here. So I'm grateful to the BFG Edition for sparking my interest in the scene.

 

Somehow I managed to purposefully avoid re-buying BFG Edition until this year and it was only to compare the different versions of The Lost Mission. It somehow takes way more work than the original to get it running properly on modern hardware without screen tearing and giving me motion sickness. After all that, it's actually enjoyable for what it is; the higher frame rate is nice and the lighting difference is interesting, though it's absolutely no replacement for the original and the flashlight change is weird and messes with my muscle memory. Also the obtrusive quick save screen ruins the atmosphere.

 

Overall I don't think it's necessary to port a 16 and a half year old pc game to modern consoles, but I imagine the reason they only use the BFG Edition is because it's easier than porting the original pc version from scratch and includes more content.

[seed]

They should, but the question is, if they ever will.

 

The original version has not been available for a long time, nowadays only Steam still sells it if I recall correctly, and since they ported BFGE to plenty of systems, going back and redoing it all for the OG version will surely take quite some extra effort, effort id doesn't seem particularly interested in.

 

A better compromise may be to just update BFGE and make it play closer to the original release instead, as an option, with the original ammo carry capacity, flashlight as separate weapon, and restore the content that was altered for no good reason, such as levels.

[Gez]

It wouldn't make commercial sense to go back to the older edition. Outside of the hardcore Doom fan crowd (i.e., the members of this forum), this would be perceived as a downgrade, because the BFG Edition was sold as an upgrade.

 

As for cut content, the latest re-release is actually worse than the original BFG Edition:

 

 

My pipe-dream for Doom 3 would actually be a new remaster that merges the original version and the BFG Edition, allowing to toggle the on or off the gameplay changes while reintroducing all the content; providing some bots (repurposing the AI from Quake 3 Arena) for the deathmatch maps, offering the full content without cuts from both the original game and the extra campaign from BFG, and being able to load mods made for either version.

[Silhouette 03]

4 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

BFG Edition is automatically invalid for making the flashlight attached to your armor. Combat is so piss easy in BFGE I don't see the appeal at all. 

I find it odd that they'd done that. Why on earth would you remove a mechanic from your game just because some people don't like it? besides, duct tape mods still(?) exist. Just add some more lighting(not an excess like in BFG edition), Also, why'd they add a battery meter to the torch/flashlight? What is the point of that? 

[MadGuy]

6 hours ago, Gez said:

My pipe-dream for Doom 3 would actually be a new remaster that merges the original version and the BFG Edition, allowing to toggle the on or off the gameplay changes while reintroducing all the content; providing some bots (repurposing the AI from Quake 3 Arena) for the deathmatch maps, offering the full content without cuts from both the original game and the extra campaign from BFG, and being able to load mods made for either version.

Have you tried my source port DOOM BFA ? Certainly is not perfect but it still got some interesting things to toy around on DOOM 3, plus it has better modding capabilities (and closer to the original).

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/94538-doom-bfa-127-former-classic-rbdoom-3-bfg/

Edited January 9, 2021 by MadGuy
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[Azuris]

Bought the BFG-Edition last Year for the PS3, because it supports 3D.

Also got it on the PC last Year because this 3D Support is the Source for the VR-Mod ;)

But i didn't get it to work fine with the Index and had not enough Time to play around.

 

But overall, i like the original much more.

With some Mods it looks even better nowadays than the BFG-Edition.

 

Also, sometimes when i play Doom 16 and i am searching for Secrets, i try pressing F for the Torch...

 

Aaand, it is really not nice that you can't hit the Bodies on the Floor anymore without the Torch in the BFG-Edition.

It was my Way to be sure that they will not stand up.

[omx32x]

36 minutes ago, Reelvonic said:

after playing both bfg edition on console, pc. and the original on pc, i agree that original is better, but hey nothing to do about it

if they removed the extra ammo and added the weapon's flash back i honestely wouldint see much of a problem with it yea the flashlight is changed but thats to little consequence in the game

[Avoozl]

On 1/9/2021 at 4:38 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

BFG Edition is automatically invalid for making the flashlight attached to your armor.

Not to mention they also brightened up maps killing the point in the flashlight.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Avoozl

[Akira1364]

RBDoom 3 BFG is the best way to play Doom 3 on PC, IMO, and has options to make the gameplay the same as the original release as far as stuff like the flashlight.

[Arl]

12 hours ago, Akira1364 said:

RBDoom 3 BFG is the best way to play Doom 3 on PC, IMO, and has options to make the gameplay the same as the original release as far as stuff like the flashlight.

 

 

That would be DOOM BFA, RBDoom 3 don't have any gameplay options.

[Akira1364]

9 hours ago, Arl said:

 

 

That would be DOOM BFA, RBDoom 3 don't have any gameplay options.

 

Well, after going back and looking, you're right about regular RBDoom 3 BFG not having that particular flashlight option, though it does have other gameplay options that weren't in the original version.

 

Either way, my point was mostly related to the superior modern renderer found in RBDoom 3 BFG / Doom 3 BFA versus the original Doom 3 one.

[snapshot]

Only problem with BFG edition on PC is it can't run original game mods, so if you decide to use that you can forget about playing mods like CD3, Hexen: EoC, Phobos or all the Co-op mods

Edited May 14, 2021 by sluggard

[Koko Ricky]

I find it difficult to understand why they didn't go the easiest possible route for satisfying everyone: allow players the option to play the original or "enhanced" version, with mod support for the original.

[Edward850]

8 hours ago, GoatLord said:

I find it difficult to understand why they didn't go the easiest possible route for satisfying everyone: allow players the option to play the original or "enhanced" version, with mod support for the original.

Well, they have, here you go: https://store.steampowered.com/app/9050/DOOM_3/

 

As for the thread topic itself, they use BFG because that's the only thing they have that's properly cross platform compliant. The original Doom3 was designed around having its gameplay logic in a separate binary, which became the modding SDK. This binary however is native code and must be compiled to the platform you're running on. This is a problem for consoles which do not like dynamically loading code at runtime, so this SDK needs to be turned into internal scripts and logic.

On top of all that they needed to adapt the controls for proper gamepad support, improve the localisation text and adapt any shader and rendering routines for modern APIs. Going back to the original Doom3 would mean having to remake all that code again, and there's frankly no point. The grumblings on a niche forum from a small handful of folks is not really incentive enough to do all that again.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Edward850

[snapshot]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:31 AM, Silhou3tte said:

I find it odd that they'd done that. Why on earth would you remove a mechanic from your game just because some people don't like it? besides, duct tape mods still(?) exist. Just add some more lighting(not an excess like in BFG edition), Also, why'd they add a battery meter to the torch/flashlight? What is the point of that? 

 

 

Spoiler

on a serious note I believe Carmack said it was because everyone complained about it on release, he also said it was something related to performance in some QuakeCon presentation iirc

[Silhouette 03]

55 minutes ago, sluggard said:

on a serious note I believe Carmack said it was because everyone complained about it on release,

I understand that, but why strip your game of a mechanic which it is balanced around? Yes, a lot of people hated the mechanic, but having many of the encounters centered around it would cause issues if it was taken out. Not trying to deflect your point, though. I see the point of the mechanic, but that I doesn't mean I don't think its clunky and sometimes unintuitive 

It's been a while since that post, but I now see that the battery meter was probably put in to compensate for the removal of the mechanic.

[Akira1364]

5 hours ago, Silhou3tte said:

I understand that, but why strip your game of a mechanic which it is balanced around? Yes, a lot of people hated the mechanic, but having many of the encounters centered around it would cause issues if it was taken out. Not trying to deflect your point, though. I see the point of the mechanic, but that I doesn't mean I don't think its clunky and sometimes unintuitive 

It's been a while since that post, but I now see that the battery meter was probably put in to compensate for the removal of the mechanic.

 

I've never really found that the flashlight makes the game more or less difficult either way, personally. It's most useful just for finding pickups that are lying around which would be impossible to see otherwise.

 

On 5/14/2021 at 3:26 PM, sluggard said:

Only problem with BFG edition on PC is it can't run original game mods, so if you decide to use that you can forget about playing mods like CD3, Hexen: EoC, Phobos or all the Co-op mods

 

The only mods it can't run are ones that actually used their own custom game DLL, as opposed to simply modifying scripts and assets.

 

Additionally, I do really wish that mods specifically aiming to improve visuals (like Redux, and Rivarez) would target BFG (or more specifically the custom versions of it like Doom 3 BFA and RBDoom 3 BFG) instead of the original game. It / they are far more capable of handling high resolution assets, have more advanced lighting and shadows to begin with, and so on and so forth.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Akira1364
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[Gez]

I wanted to take a few screenshots to better illustrate some of the monsters for the Doom Wiki, where you'd actually get to see the details of the monsters' models, and found out that I had to use console commands to spawn lights (and freeze AI) in order to actually do that. This is my Doom 3 story.

[Agent Slacker]

My only complaint is that the Switch version doesn't support gyro aiming.

(also shout out to MadGuy for BFA. It looks to address a lot of the issues that people have with BFG Edition and create a more vanilla experience. Controller support just sweetens the deal a lot more. I wish OG DOOM 3 source ports had controller support.)

[Dubbag]

Back when the game original came out I couldn't play it cause it was SOO advanced my computers could never run it.When BFG came out, I was actually REALLY happy to be able to play the game in full that I didn't care that it came with a duct-tape MOD. I had played the original Xbox version and knew I was missing out on a lot because half the game was cut, not to mention how shitty it looked.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Dubbag

[battlescroll]

yes

[Wadmodder Shalton]

I wish there to be a Harmy's Despecialized Edition-styled mod that reverts the original maps of Vanilla Doom 3 & Vanilla Resurrection of Evil back to their original counterparts.

[Arl]

On 7/24/2021 at 8:48 AM, Wadmodder Shalton said:

I wish there to be a Harmy's Despecialized Edition-styled mod that reverts the original maps of Vanilla Doom 3 & Vanilla Resurrection of Evil back to their original counterparts.

 

 

I tried, but it will be easier to make RBDoom3 compatible with the remaining formats OG D3 has, that way RBDoom3 can be used to play the old D3 content, and then we can have the best from the two options.

 

I say this because RBDoom3 is already compatible with old content to a very interesting extent.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Arl

[Lila Feuer]

The fact they outright removed a "negligible" amount of enemies in the re-release defeats the purpose of playing it on fkn Veteran. The naked zombie in Hell is missing entirely in BFG / 2019 edition! On top of being absolutely flooded with more ammo than you ever needed, especially now. What were they thinking? I'm glad they never got rid of the original version on Steam.