Are Secrets Really Necessary

[Hawk of The Crystals]

I've always wondered if getting all secrets in a map is really necessary, like what does it do?, what's the point of always knowing a map in and out, to the point of not even being interested?.

 

I understand that this question might be dumb, but i really just don't know anymore, been playing for two decades now, and i still feel weird about this.

[Pseudonaut]

It satisfies one of the two requirements for UV-Max. Otherwise, it's just for useful resources if there are any, or for fun.

[Devalaous]

I love secret hunting. Well-made secrets feel rewarding and when just tough enough to solve, make me feel just a little bit cleverer too. Learning secrets in No End in Sight and END1/2 was quite the exercise.

 

Maps with no secrets that are just 'kill stuff' interest me far less so than secret-heavy maps.

[spineapple tea]

Never necessary but always appreciated.

 

Edit: Unless it's the Nine Inch Nails secret from E4M1, in that case fuck right off.

Edited January 21, 2021 by N1ck

[Rytrik]

"PLACING SECRET AREAS was and still is a point of pride for Romero. Doom and Quake hold up today not only because their straightforward, shoot-everything-that-moves pedigree makes them welcoming, but because their environments are fun to explore, especially when nosing around a level is rewarded by way of secret areas and caches of supplies."

 

"Catching a glimpse of a room or item they can’t reach incentivizes players to explore rather than rush through a map. Journey over destination. "

 

https://www.shacknews.com/article/110199/icon-of-sin-doom-and-the-making-of-john-romeros-sigil?page=4

Edited January 21, 2021 by Rytrik

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

You're thinking about secrets the wrong way. Secrets ideally should be a satisfying puzzle that piques the player's curiosity and rewards them for figuring it out, not something you go hunting for just because.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Marn

[Doom OG]

It's rewarding and part of feeling like you conquered a Map.

[Doom OG]

24 minutes ago, N1ck said:

Never necessary but always appreciated.

 

Edit: Unless it's the Nine Inch Nails secret from E4M1, in that case fuck right off.

 

OMG yes.  LMAO totally.

[Dweller Dark]

I don't think getting secrets is really necessary, but it's a nice pastime in shooters like Doom. Sometimes it has benefits if you find them early on, such as finding the next weapon that the next map will give you anyway. Though on harder difficulties, it's helpful if you've figured out how to get that soulsphere you saw earlier in the map but couldn't quite get to yet. Or that health pack or whatever other spare supplies you spent getting there.

[Hawk of The Crystals]

Thanks for the feedback peeps, i'm probably thinking about secrets in the wrong way, but i just wanted to talk to the community here.

[xvertigox]

It's fun to try to get inside the mappers mind and crack the puzzle of how they set up their secrets.

[Yandere_Doomer]

i feel accomplished when i put a decent amount of secrets in one of my maps, i feel like i am going to make the player think outside of the box somehow, or maybe make the player laugh in joy over a clever move that i have made.

secrets are great fun, even if you dont find all of them.

[dei_eldren]

They are satisfying to me to figure out, or even just to bump into.  And of course they are part of conquering the map.  But at the same time, if you don't think so, you can ignore them if that's more fun for you, they have only so much meaning as you give them.  But remember, they've been a part of Doom since E1M1, and id considered them an essential (if not necessary) part of gameplay.

 

Tangentially: the only modern feature i miss when playing absolutely vanilla is showing the amount of monsters and secrets, and i can't quite figure out if using that is light cheating or not - noticed this switching PRBoom+ to Choco, even knowing the amount of monsters changes the atmosphere and difficulty a little bit, but i still kind of prefer it that way.  And i've noticed in videos most good players don't actually use Automap at all, even when playing first time...so they're not using that help at all.

Edited January 21, 2021 by dei_eldren

[Doomkid]

People may call me a heretic for this, but I usually play with IDDT on, and a more graphical automap. Even with IDDT I struggle to find many secrets.. I don’t cheat in Wolf3D since secrets are much easier to find on a single plane consisting only of squares, but as easy as it is to be ultra-obscure with the secrets in Doom mapping, I don’t feel bad about giving myself an actually decent map.

[BerserkerNoir]

Getting Weapons Early, PowerUps that might come handy in a pinch, Unlocking the SSG and making it feel a reward instead of a neccesity.
Things like that.

[dei_eldren]

7 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

People may call me a heretic for this, but I usually play with IDDT on, and a more graphical automap. Even with IDDT I struggle to find many secrets.. I don’t cheat in Wolf3D since secrets are much easier to find on a single plane consisting only of squares, but as easy as it is to be ultra-obscure with the secrets in Doom mapping, I don’t feel bad about giving myself an actually decent map.

 

Haha, to be honest, if  i can't find the secrets, i tend to search a video where someone has done found them...which is just as much 'cheating' as any cheat-code :)  It defeats the purpose to run around the map for 30 minutes (done that more than a few times) looking for some secret which may be really obscure or so obvious you just missed it.  But finding such things alone is really satisfying too.

 

Tbh, i didn't even know about cheat-codes in the 90s, so that's probably why i'm not accustomed to using them. 

[dei_eldren]

10 minutes ago, BerserkerNoir said:

Getting Weapons Early, PowerUps that might come handy in a pinch, Unlocking the SSG and making it feel a reward instead of a neccesity.
Things like that.

 

That's a good point - they should be naturally rewarding, and i think were meant to be.  So you could say some mappers kind of misuse them a little bit (not saying it's wrong, just...it's not as rewarding haha)  Perhaps the OP has experienced a lot of disappointing secrets.

Edited January 21, 2021 by dei_eldren

[Phade102]

Secrets are absolutely not necessary, but they encourage exploration. If you are designing a linear map, having a few obvious secret areas in them can make people think outside the box.

[Omniarch]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

People may call me a heretic for this, but I usually play with IDDT on, and a more graphical automap. Even with IDDT I struggle to find many secrets.. I don’t cheat in Wolf3D since secrets are much easier to find on a single plane consisting only of squares, but as easy as it is to be ultra-obscure with the secrets in Doom mapping, I don’t feel bad about giving myself an actually decent map.

If you're a heretic, then I'm the heresiarch, because when I can't figure out a secret, I save, open up the map in an editor, search for all type 9 sectors and piece everything together from there. I always feel bad afterwards for some reason, and yet I keep doing it anyway, otherwise my inner completionist will berate me.

[Yandere_Doomer]

1 minute ago, Omniarch said:

If you're a heretic, then I'm the heresiarch, because when I can't figure out a secret, I save, open up the map in an editor, search for all type 9 sectors and piece everything together from there. I always feel bad afterwards for some reason, and yet I keep doing it anyway, otherwise my inner completionist will berate me.

whos Korax then?

i dont really care if i get the secrets or not, i just go through the level.

[ketmar]

putting secrets into a map is good. finding them all... dunno, i never even tried. for me, secret is a reward for my awareness skills, but i don't want to spend my time specifically looking for secrets. i.e. if i see something unusual, and it is a secret passage -- great, i feel rewarded. but when i see less than 100% secrets on intemission screen, i feel... nothing. so be it.

[DRM-MAN]

It depends, do you actually care about map secrets?, or is this just a psudeo-philosophical question related to doom?.

[Maximum Matt]

I just don't like it when there's an obviously secret room not tagged as such, and the opposite, just some random area you walk into while exploring that gives you a "YOU FOUND A SECRET!!!!!" award

[DRM-MAN]

1 minute ago, Maximum Matt said:

I just don't like it when there's an obviously secret room not tagged as such, and the opposite, just some random area you walk into while exploring that gives you a "YOU FOUND A SECRET!!!!!" award

That's a thing that i always get anxiety about whenever playing custom maps.

[Azuris]

The Secrets makes the Game way more Fun, puzzling around how to get to a certain Spot is just Fun, they are adding to the replayability and make the Game easier on harder Difficulties.

 

 

[SF.]

I look for secrets only because they help me get 100% kills from a pistol start. In easy maps, secrets are not necessary (unless there are monsters hidden in them). As the difficulty increases, secrets become more important. 

[ReaperAA]

Secrets aren't mandatory (unless you are going for UV-Max speedruns) and are just there to reward you for being observant and exploring the environments.

 

Unless we are talking about something like Maximum Doom where many of the levels have mandatory secrets.

[seed]

They aren't. They are usually there to reward the curious and the observant, but otherwise, if you don't care about them, they can easily be ignored.

 

Unless you're speedrunning for the -Max categories, in which case, yes, they are mandatory, 100% kills and 100% secrets.

[Doom OG]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

People may call me a heretic for this, but I usually play with IDDT on, and a more graphical automap. Even with IDDT I struggle to find many secrets.. I don’t cheat in Wolf3D since secrets are much easier to find on a single plane consisting only of squares, but as easy as it is to be ultra-obscure with the secrets in Doom mapping, I don’t feel bad about giving myself an actually decent map.

 

Bring him to the Inquisition! :) jk

[hybridial]

I am going to take the question in a slightly different way other people have, maybe it's the intended way, I'm not sure. 

 

I mean it's never necessary in any game to do anything, so I don't think that's the way I would take it. 

 

Is it necessary to making Doom the game it is? Definitely. The levels wouldn't be as fun to replay, exploration and observation wouldn't be rewarded, and there wouldn't be as strong a sense of location, because secrets that are well done, are always memorable. I think it's absolutely key to the retro FPS design and I am glad the renaissance of recent games have continued the tradition.