PSX Doom is actually really good

[Rudolph]

I have to ask: how was Playstation Final Doom received back then?

 

I am looking at the map list and I find myself rather perplexed: on one hand, the game features a good chunk of the Master Levels in its map rotation, which is pretty neat, actually, but on the other hand, it ends anticlimactically with some of the easiest, least-impressive Plutonia levels. Also, unlike its predecessor, it only has 30 maps - none of which are original - and no new monsters.

 

I cannot help but wonder how anyone could not feel a bit cheated by such a downgrade.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Rudolph

[Agent Slacker]

10 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I have to ask: how was Playstation Final Doom received back then?

I think it wasn't well received at all, mostly because of the lack of levels and the fact that it performed worse than PSX DOOM. At least it can make use of the PSX Mouse.

[Dark Pulse]

10 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I have to ask: how was Playstation Final Doom received back then?

 

I am looking at the map list and I find myself rather perplexed: on one hand, the game features a good chunk of the Master Levels in its map rotation, which is pretty neat, actually, but on the other hand, it ends anticlimactically with some of the easiest, least-impressive Plutonia levels. Also, unlike its predecessor, it only has 30 maps - none of which are original - and no new monsters.

 

I cannot help but wonder how anyone could not feel a bit cheated by such a downgrade.

The bigger and more impressive levels would just not have been done justice on the PSX. The RAM limits are extremely tight. Adding a Mancubus into the map will take up almost a third of the available RAM by itself.

 

There's a reason the big baddies (Mancubus, Spider Mastermind, Cyberdemon) are very rare. RAM reasons are also the reason why you can't have both a Mastermind and a Cyberdemon at the same time.

 

6 minutes ago, Agent Slacker said:

I think it wasn't well received at all, mostly because of the lack of levels and the fact that it performed worse than PSX DOOM. At least it can make use of the PSX Mouse.

Per what @Hyde said, it was a total cash grab, so it was done on the quick. And since he's the one who ported all the maps originally, I believe him. :P

[Rudolph]

8 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

The bigger and more impressive levels would just not have been done justice on the PSX. The RAM limits are extremely tight. Adding a Mancubus into the map will take up almost a third of the available RAM by itself.

 

There's a reason the big baddies (Mancubus, Spider Mastermind, Cyberdemon) are very rare. RAM reasons are also the reason why you can't have both a Mastermind and a Cyberdemon at the same time.

I guess so, but by "impressive", I meant levels that feel more climactic.

 

Like, how about a reworked version of Cyberden as your grand finale? Doom 64 was able to pull that off with No Escape, after all.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Rudolph

[Dark Pulse]

8 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I guess so, but by "impressive", I meant levels that feel more climactic.

 

Like, how about a reworked version of Cyberden as your grand finale? Doom 64 was able to pull that off with No Escape, after all.

I mean, "cash grab" implies it was pretty much quick-and-dirty. Don't forget the same team were also working on Doom 64 at the same time, as well.

[Rudolph]

Do we know what was the thought process behind the development? Like, what led the team to pick these specific maps?

 

Clearly, some thoughts went into the map selection, as the developers skipped quite a few TNT and Plutonia maps.

[Dark Pulse]

23 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Do we know what was the thought process behind the development? Like, what led the team to pick these specific maps?

 

Clearly, some thoughts went into the map selection, as the developers skipped quite a few TNT and Plutonia maps.

Whatever could be done quickly, didn't need too much work to make happen, etc.

 

I mean, the GEC Master Edition project proved you could do all of them, with some necessary sacrifices here and there, but by and large it was "whatever could be done that wouldn't take too much time."

[Rudolph]

I wish there was a commercial re-release of Playstation Doom so I could play the recreated missing levels without resorting to piracy.

 

Now that Doom 64 is available again, what is Id Software waiting for anyway?

Edited November 11, 2021 by Rudolph

[Redneckerz]

56 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I wish there was a commercial re-release of Playstation Doom so I could play the recreated missing levels without resorting to piracy.

 

Now that Doom 64 is available again, what is Id Software waiting for anyway?

They are prepping a Quake-universe game.

[Rudolph]

48 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

They are prepping a Quake-universe game.

That was a rhetorical question. I do not think they had much to do with the Doom 64 re-release other than greenlit it.

[Redneckerz]

1 minute ago, Rudolph said:

That was a rhetorical question. I do not think they had much to do with the Doom 64 re-release other than greenlit it.

They didn't. I just answered the question.

[Rudolph]

I guess Kaiser is not interested in porting it to the KEX Engine. Either that, or he is too busy with Powerslave: Exhumed.

[Agent Slacker]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

I guess Kaiser is not interested in porting it to the KEX Engine. Either that, or he is too busy with Powerslave: Exhumed.

I think that's ultimately up for id to decide. Whether or not Kaiser is interested probably doesn't matter too much.

[Rudolph]

9 hours ago, Agent Slacker said:

I think that's ultimately up for id to decide. Whether or not Kaiser is interested probably doesn't matter too much.

Yeah, that is why I was wondering what is keeping Id here.

[Dark Pulse]

7 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Yeah, that is why I was wondering what is keeping Id here.

Cost vs. profit, primarily.

 

And the profit is not likely to outweigh the cost, since while Doom 64 is a new experience for those who didn't play it back then, PSX Doom is a handful of new maps and some slight enhancements (plus some cuts) to an already-existing game.

 

Therefore, don't hold your breath.

[nikitsune]

This was my first experience with DOOM when I was 8. And the reason why I play DOOM today (with PSX SFX and sometimes OST).

Edited November 12, 2021 by nikitsune

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

Therefore, don't hold your breath.

Oh, I know. :(

 

Would it not be cool if Id Software could commission a full megawad of original maps done in the style of Playstation Doom but without the limitations? I am sure Aubrey Hodges would have a blast scoring a whole new soundtrack for the occasion.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Rudolph

[Devils950003]

Started with the Jag version, almost didn't buy the PSX version because I figured "Even with Doom II, I already played it."  Glad I bought it...I loved PSX Doom and it was my favorite version until the 360 version came out...having NEVER played the PC version, I saw all that was missing from the PSX version...and of course, 360 Doom had increased resolution and a much improved and more stable frame rate.  I haven't been able to go back to PSX Doom since, even though there's so much to like about that one (the lighting, generally creepier atmosphere, etc).  I'll always have a major soft spot for it.

 

As someone whose first Doom soundtrack experience was comprised solely of Aubrey Hodges' excellent soundtrack, that's the only way I can play it...so now when I play on the Nintendo Switch, in handheld mode, I simply have Hodges' brilliance playing through a laptop beside me...the MIDI stuff sounds silly to me and completely takes me out of the game.  Wish I could play the Switch version with Hodges' sound effects as well, but I can live with the originals.  

[Dark Pulse]

5 hours ago, Devils950003 said:

Started with the Jag version, almost didn't buy the PSX version because I figured "Even with Doom II, I already played it."  Glad I bought it...I loved PSX Doom and it was my favorite version until the 360 version came out...having NEVER played the PC version, I saw all that was missing from the PSX version...and of course, 360 Doom had increased resolution and a much improved and more stable frame rate.  I haven't been able to go back to PSX Doom since, even though there's so much to like about that one (the lighting, generally creepier atmosphere, etc).  I'll always have a major soft spot for it.

 

As someone whose first Doom soundtrack experience was comprised solely of Aubrey Hodges' excellent soundtrack, that's the only way I can play it...so now when I play on the Nintendo Switch, in handheld mode, I simply have Hodges' brilliance playing through a laptop beside me...the MIDI stuff sounds silly to me and completely takes me out of the game.  Wish I could play the Switch version with Hodges' sound effects as well, but I can live with the originals.  

PsyDoom is basically a way to play all of the goodness of the PSX original, but with none of the crippling framerate issues.

 

Takes a little bit of work to set up, but nothing that'd be unfamiliar to you at all if you've ever run a game on a PS1 emulator.

[LukeDodge748]

So after 25 years I'm playing PSX Doom/Final Doom and Doom64 like it's 1997 again. These are my favorite versions of Doom, considering I got these ports before I even got a PC (sometime in '99). I'm astounded at how good these games are, and how much fun I'm having again. And from what I'm seeing the Doom community is pretty huge and alive right now. That's really cool. I had no idea what I had been missing out on. These 3 games are completely responsible for me getting heavy into retro game collecting again. Playing these games again is like traveling back in time again, the music, the sounds, the gameplay, it all just brings back so many good times.

[Rudolph]

Damn, is it me or PS1 Doom is kind of... well, hard? 

 

To be clear, this is probably the first time I play a Doom with a controller - more specifically here a Playstation Portable - in at least a decade, so I keep getting my ass kicked on the very first level (Master Edition's MAP01: Phobos Mission Control)! :o

 

Not that it is a negative, since this is more or less how the game is meant to be played; I guess I must have been spoiled from playing so much with a mouse and a keyboard and also from GZDoom's quality-of-life features such as freelook.

 

It also took me a while to figure out a control scheme that feels intuitive enough: I could not stand the default one (does anyone even use it?), so I went with Square for "Attack", X for "Speed", Circle for "Use", the Trigger buttons for strafing and the joystick for weapon switching. I cannot see myself ever relying on "Strafe On", so I assigned it to Triangle.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Rudolph

[ZombiemanMastermind]

PSX doom and PC doom are both great for different reasons. The soundtrack for PC Doom gets you psyched up to hunt demons, PSX soundtrack is pants shitting terror. Both work for Doom depending on how the levels are lit.

[Rudolph]

6 hours ago, CacodemonMan said:

Both work for Doom depending on how the levels are lit.

Yeah, about that: maybe it is because of the PSP's small screen, but some segments are easily on par with Doom 3 in terms of lighting - or lack of. MAP05's dark room is especially a nightmare to navigate and the lights take so long to flicker back on that you essentially have to fight blind. And since the controls are nowhere near as responsive as the mouse/keyboard combo, Demons and especially their Nightmare variants can be panic-inducing. In many ways, it almost feels like playing a classic Resident Evil game in first-person.

 

It does have some frustrating parts, however, like having to restart a level with nothing but the pistol when killed; some maps were clearly not designed with that in mind, like the console version of Spawning Vats. :S

Edited May 25, 2023 by Rudolph

[Individualised]

On 11/7/2021 at 7:06 PM, Rudolph said:

I have to ask: how was Playstation Final Doom received back then?

 

I am looking at the map list and I find myself rather perplexed: on one hand, the game features a good chunk of the Master Levels in its map rotation, which is pretty neat, actually, but on the other hand, it ends anticlimactically with some of the easiest, least-impressive Plutonia levels. Also, unlike its predecessor, it only has 30 maps - none of which are original - and no new monsters.

 

I cannot help but wonder how anyone could not feel a bit cheated by such a downgrade.

The PC game wasn't well received either (so much so that id tried to play it down as an expansion pack; which didn't work as gaming press still called it a separate game) for being unoriginal so I don't think anyone batted an eye at the PlayStation version for being pretty much a scam back then except for Doom fans. It's different now because Final Doom is much more appreciated and we don't do "console version is completely different from the PC original" thing anymore.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Individualised

[Rudolph]

If I could go back in time to influence the development of Playstation Doom, I would tell Williams to design an entirely original mapset specifically designed for the console, like Midway would later do with Doom 64. Those console-exclusive maps are pretty good, actually!

Edited May 25, 2023 by Rudolph

[Midway64]

2 hours ago, Rudolph said:

If I could go back in time to influence the development of Playstation Doom, I would tell Williams to design an entirely original mapset specifically designed for the console, like Midway would later do with Doom 64. Those console-exclusive maps are pretty good, actually!

Midway are the ones who developed the Playstation version, they just showed up as Williams Entertainment (as Williams bought them).

And the ambient soundscape is already good in it's own, there's no need to add more, it's a port after all.

[Rudolph]

1 minute ago, ValveMercenary said:

Midway are the ones who developed the Playstation version, they just showed up as Williams Entertainment (as Williams bought them).

That makes it even more a shame, as they have proven themselves to be quite capable in that regard with Doom 64.

[Dark Pulse]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:47 PM, Rudolph said:

Damn, is it me or PS1 Doom is kind of... well, hard? 

 

To be clear, this is probably the first time I play a Doom with a controller - more specifically here a Playstation Portable - in at least a decade, so I keep getting my ass kicked on the very first level (Master Edition's MAP01: Phobos Mission Control)! :o

 

Not that it is a negative, since this is more or less how the game is meant to be played; I guess I must have been spoiled from playing so much with a mouse and a keyboard and also from GZDoom's quality-of-life features such as freelook.

 

It also took me a while to figure out a control scheme that feels intuitive enough: I could not stand the default one (does anyone even use it?), so I went with Square for "Attack", X for "Speed", Circle for "Use", the Trigger buttons for strafing and the joystick for weapon switching. I cannot see myself ever relying on "Strafe On", so I assigned to Triangle.

If you didn't play shooters in the era, it can take some getting used to, and since this was an early title, analog controls didn't exist yet (though the GEC Master Edition does add those - and PlayStation Mouse support, I believe).

 

That said, that's also how I assign my controls. But as I grew up playing PS1 Doom (and my first port was an even clunkier one, SNES Doom), I'm pretty used to playing it with a controller. I made sure my conversions for the project were beatable by me on Ultra-Violence before I submitted them, after all. :P

 

5 hours ago, ValveMercenary said:

Midway are the ones who developed the Playstation version, they just showed up as Williams Entertainment (as Williams bought them).

And the ambient soundscape is already good in it's own, there's no need to add more, it's a port after all.

Other way around - Williams was bought out by Midway.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Dark Pulse

[aboyes1989]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:47 PM, Rudolph said:

Damn, is it me or PS1 Doom is kind of... well, hard? 

 

To be clear, this is probably the first time I play a Doom with a controller - more specifically here a Playstation Portable - in at least a decade, so I keep getting my ass kicked on the very first level (Master Edition's MAP01: Phobos Mission Control)! :o

 

Not that it is a negative, since this is more or less how the game is meant to be played; I guess I must have been spoiled from playing so much with a mouse and a keyboard and also from GZDoom's quality-of-life features such as freelook.

 

It also took me a while to figure out a control scheme that feels intuitive enough: I could not stand the default one (does anyone even use it?), so I went with Square for "Attack", X for "Speed", Circle for "Use", the Trigger buttons for strafing and the joystick for weapon switching. I cannot see myself ever relying on "Strafe On", so I assigned to Triangle.

 

I always found the PS1 Doom games to be easier than the PC counterparts, but I originally played Doom on PC back in the mid 90s, with keyboard only, and no strafing haha. So going to a controller, with the ability to circle strafe was a huge improvement. By design, and limitations, the PS1 ports tend to be easier too, but I do think if you are used to modern PC controls, the basic PS1 controls can be a big step back and a big learning curve.

[Rudolph]

Oh, it remains very much doable, but since death is much more punishing now and there is no way to save your progress (and I keep accidentally resetting the game on my Playstation Portable), even some of the early maps can be quite difficult to deal with. Since there is no way to quickly switch to a specific weapon, encounters with Demons and Nightmare Demons can get very nasty. I am also surprised by the lack of Light Amplification Visors so far, especially in MAP05: Phobos Lab, where they would have been most helpful!

 

@Dark Pulse Do you know if Master Edition's final release intends to address the vanilla bugs as well? I noticed a few so far, like the right pillar that will not lower itself during the Baron of Hell ambush in MAP13: Command Center.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Rudolph